Heroes Of The Storm PTR Patch Notes — May 9, 2016

[Well]

Why not? They can basically convert all kinds of damaging abilities into healing ones.

For example why not make a big AoE Heal after a small delay like Kael'thas' Flamestrike, channeled Heal like Cho'gall's Shadow Bolt Volley or summoning/building Units to Heal like Zagara's Hydralisk or Gazlowe's Turrets? Even one of the crazier abilities like dropping Healing globes around the map like Abathur's Toxic Nests can be made into a healing spell.

They sure technically can. The point is that abilities, and especially in hots, are designed to be simple and straightforward. Not to mention that when you're playing at the edge, you want simple stuff. The best thing that could/should happen is for talents to offer extra healing on skill checks (like Tracer's perfect reload talent). That would be a neat 1st and very big step towards skillful and interesting healing in hots.

[Mormolyce]

I really don't want a DR system in HoTS.

DR is fucking awful.

If you rarely take slow mines on Abathur you're not playing Abathur right.

Suuuure sure.

You're very narrow-minded about Abathur.

[RH92]

They sure technically can. The point is that abilities, and especially in hots, are designed to be simple and straightforward. Not to mention that when you're playing at the edge, you want simple stuff. The best thing that could/should happen is for talents to offer extra healing on skill checks (like Tracer's perfect reload talent). That would be a neat 1st and very big step towards skillful and interesting healing in hots.

To be honest, I still think the examples I made are simple enough.

Actually there is not that much they can do, because there is not as many stats to begin with. It is not like there is Armor, Magic Resistance and also abilities doing Spell or Physical damage, giving other dimension to ability and hero design like in some other games.

I just think giving Healers abilities that require allies to walk into their AoE or Skill Shots is rather interesting. It requires allies to work with healer (which is frustrating with randoms) and also creating a potential for skillful play in placing great heals amongst all the chaos on battlefield. Just as you 'hunt' for your enemies on other roles, Healers could do it with their allies.

However yeah, I would like to see more talents like Locked and Loaded in general.

[Well]

To be honest, I still think the examples I made are simple enough.

Actually there is not that much they can do, because there is not as many stats to begin with. It is not like there is Armor reducing AA damage and Resistance reducing Spell damage (Not talking about Block and Spell Shield) giving other dimension to ability and hero design like in some other games.

I just think giving Healers abilities that require allies to walk into their AoE or Skill Shots is rather interesting. It requires allies to work with healer (which is frustrating with randoms) and also creating a potential for skillful play in placing great heals amongst all the chaos on battlefield. Just as you 'hunt' for your enemies on other roles, Healers could do it with their allies. However yeah, I would like to see more talents like Locked and Loaded in general.

You need to take into consideration the nature of healing. Healing is always reactive. The ways of dealing damage all are aggressive in nature. If someone does not get hit, he will not need healing. You might have a myriad of ways for dealing damage and in many frequencies (like dots or insane burst), but healing always requires a certainty in its execution that does not need anyone else other than the healer to deal with its whatever complexity. If not, you force every player to pretty much learn to play the healer, and most people do not want that. Also, no damage dealer wants a healer that after being asked "Dude, why the f didn't you heal me there?" answers "Well, I tried to, but you didn't stand on my circle, bro" and that is even more true in mobas like hots.

The best course of action would be to offer talents like Tracer's lvl 16 choices. Sizable but the lowest of the choices straightforward healing increase with no strings attached, slight skillcheck talent that offers medium healing increase, and very high skillcheck talent that offers the most. With healers this is very hard to implement since all of them except Uther only have 1 healing ability and they are all simply click->heal with their effects being automatically executed. The only healer that currently has that going for them is Rehgar's lvl13 talents. 12% shield on W, no downside or skillcheck, 33% more hps with the Q cd reduction and 50% increase in healing if you get 3 people below 50% health.

I'm rather convinced that the next support we will see will be an overcomplicated batshit OP hero that will actually be impossible to balance for them, like Discipline in WoW, but that's a prediction, nothing more.

[Tenjen]

I really don't want a DR system in HoTS.

DR is fucking awful.



Suuuure sure.

You're very narrow-minded about Abathur.

You're the one coming off as narrow minded.

He said if you "rarely take slow mines", not "only" or "this is the real option and all else is garbage". So he's taking a stance that isnt narrow minded

[Mormolyce]

You're the one coming off as narrow minded.

He said if you "rarely take slow mines", not "only" or "this is the real option and all else is garbage". So he's taking a stance that isnt narrow minded

He said if you rarely take slow mines you're not playing Aba right. I'm saying Aba has a lot of builds that are good for different situations.

So no.

[Lesane]

Well if being open minded leads you to using networked carapace and other shitty talents, then I'd rather be close minded lol.

[Acidbaron]

Well if being open minded leads you to using networked carapace and other shitty talents, then I'd rather be close minded lol.

Why because you can't build heroes based on the situation and are dependent on premade builds found elsewhere? A lot of abathur builds are viable so is his minion build if you ever played this game enough you would have seen situations where sometimes a point needs to be contested this can often give you a big window of time to put pressure on a lane.

Why do you think the backdoor builds got nerfed? Because they were weak?

[Tirilka]

His abathur guide and peer pressure told him that only mines are "viable" because "scaling". So he's just gonna repeat it like mantra, in a same way people yell "focus morales".

[Sir Andy]

Why do you think the backdoor builds got nerfed? Because they were weak?

Because they were stupid as fuck and horribly unfun to play against?

[Acidbaron]

Because they were stupid as fuck and horribly unfun to play against?

Which is also partially my point, late game abathur can build up a high lane presence that forces the enemy team to defend away from an objective.

[Sir Andy]

Which is also partially my point, late game abathur can build up a high lane presence that forces the enemy team to defend away from an objective.

If you mean tunneling to the other side of the map when an objective spawns, sure.

If you mean tunneling in behind a keep, dropping locusts and hearthing like a pussy every 45 seconds or whatever, then no.

[Acidbaron]

If you mean tunneling to the other side of the map when an objective spawns, sure.

If you mean tunneling in behind a keep, dropping locusts and hearthing like a pussy every 45 seconds or whatever, then no.

I meant the first one

[Lesane]

Why because you can't build heroes based on the situation and are dependent on premade builds found elsewhere? A lot of abathur builds are viable so is his minion build if you ever played this game enough you would have seen situations where sometimes a point needs to be contested this can often give you a big window of time to put pressure on a lane.

Why do you think the backdoor builds got nerfed? Because they were weak?

I don't have to rely on premade builds. Anyone who does not see how the (slow) mines are miles above the other talents is probably still playing in the MMR where people tunnel vision a single lane and never try to rotate at all. Abathur has two viable builds, mine build or hat build and you only go the latter in extremely rare cases when you have an Illidan on your team or something, and even then you're probably just best off only trading the mine talent for the attack speed one at 4 and sticking to the traditional build for all other tiers.

Wtf is a minion build? I've never heard of it and probably for good reason.

The backdoor build got nerfed not because it was too overpowered, but because it was extremely obnoxious and annoying to play against. It was very easy to counter once you realise what was going on, but countering it required way too much diversion and was a way too one dimensional strat and counterplay.

His abathur guide and peer pressure told him that only mines are "viable" because "scaling". So he's just gonna repeat it like mantra, in a same way people yell "focus morales".

Lol, sure, keep thinking I even need to read guides. I also don't see wtf mines have to do with scaling. Mines are clearly superior because A) a lot of the other talents are ass and B) it makes rotating a complete pain in the ass for the enemy team because they lose a shit ton of health (if you take the damage talent, which is not even the best mine talent) and are massively slowed down all the time which makes it so much safer for your team to wander around the map. What are the other builds gonna do? You either have a one trick pony Illidan and hope that he can carry the game by keeping him hat'd half the game or you go for the mine build. All the other builds are hilariously bad. What do you achieve? Shielding some minions that will just get cleaned up in rotations? Pushing lanes with your symbiote talents?

Which is also partially my point, late game abathur can build up a high lane presence that forces the enemy team to defend away from an objective.

No shit Sherlock. That has nothing to do with his build though. Any decent Abathur build goes for the locust talents at 13, 16 and 20. The mine build takes those talents as well. In fact, it probably works best in a mine build because the mines make it far safer to go deeper into the map.

[Zelendria]

15 hp/s is only 10 globes on live, if you get to lvl 20 and have only gathered 10 globes then you have a bigger problem. If you don't have even 10 globes by level 10 then you shouldn't have even picked the talent, because you're clearly not using it well.

That is absolutely true if the conversation was on about flat hp/s per globe, but it isn't.
It's on about the difference of 15hp/s coming from 30 globes now vs 30 in the patch.

[Acidbaron]

I don't have to rely on premade builds. Anyone who does not see how the (slow) mines are miles above the other talents is probably still playing in the MMR where people tunnel vision a single lane and never try to rotate at all. Abathur has two viable builds, mine build or hat build and you only go the latter in extremely rare cases when you have an Illidan on your team or something, and even then you're probably just best off only trading the mine talent for the attack speed one at 4 and sticking to the traditional build for all other tiers.

Wtf is a minion build? I've never heard of it and probably for good reason.

The backdoor build got nerfed not because it was too overpowered, but because it was extremely obnoxious and annoying to play against. It was very easy to counter once you realise what was going on, but countering it required way too much diversion and was a way too one dimensional strat and counterplay.



Lol, sure, keep thinking I even need to read guides. I also don't see wtf mines have to do with scaling. Mines are clearly superior because A) a lot of the other talents are ass and B) it makes rotating a complete pain in the ass for the enemy team because they lose a shit ton of health (if you take the damage talent, which is not even the best mine talent) and are massively slowed down all the time which makes it so much safer for your team to wander around the map. What are the other builds gonna do? You either have a one trick pony Illidan and hope that he can carry the game by keeping him hat'd half the game or you go for the mine build. All the other builds are hilariously bad. What do you achieve? Shielding some minions that will just get cleaned up in rotations? Pushing lanes with your symbiote talents?



No shit Sherlock. That has nothing to do with his build though. Any decent Abathur build goes for the locust talents at 13, 16 and 20. The mine build takes those talents as well. In fact, it probably works best in a mine build because the mines make it far safer to go deeper into the map.

Ah yes the mmr argument from a guy who doesn't even play league anymore. So compelling. "If you don't do what i do you are bad, cause i say so" that's basically your entire argument.

The difference in popularity between the T1 minion and nest talent isn't nearly as high as you want to make it out to be. Not even in master league. That talent also allows you to play safer and push further but hey, let's not look at actual numbers right

[RH92]

I hate to jump into arguments of others, but I think you guys are completely ignoring Lesane's first post about Abathur.

He said Abathur has one viable build (with slight variations) and he is right. All the other 'lesser' talent builds are way more situational and the areas they cover can be fulfilled better by other Heroes. There is no other Hero in game who can do the same thing as Abathur with Mine Build, slowing down and revealing rotations is very powerful tool. Not flashy, but if your team can work with the information while Abathur is soaking experience, enemy team is in a tough spot.

Sure you can play other builds, but in competitive or high end games they don't work because you can just pick other Heroes who can fulfill that task better while having other tricks. Right now, I think Abathur is only picked on big maps and against Falstad or Dehaka when one was picked and the other banned. He simply isn't picked to support or push lanes.

[Nerraw]

*This conversation has gone completely off-topic at this point and seems to be going in circles. I don't want to have to infract someone if/when it gets really heated, so let's get back on the topic of the PTR patch now.*

[Lesane]

Ah yes the mmr argument from a guy who doesn't even play league anymore. So compelling. "If you don't do what i do you are bad, cause i say so" that's basically your entire argument.

The difference in popularity between the T1 minion and nest talent isn't nearly as high as you want to make it out to be. Not even in master league. That talent also allows you to play safer and push further but hey, let's not look at actual numbers right

Uhm, if you've been reading my posts you would be aware that the L1 locust talent is a normal pick for a mine build and a decent alternative to the mine talent. I stated this on page 2. A mine build does not require you to grab the L1 mine talent. The L7 talent is the most crucial to a mine build, followed by the L4 talent and lastly the L1 talent which is the most optional. I tend not to get the L1 mine talent and take the L1 locust talent instead, unless if it's a QM game with no healers or if I know I won't be able to go for risky push positions. That's not a minion "build" though. That's just a standard mine build with a slight variation at level 1. Your build and game presence is still defined by the mine talents you get at 7 (and 4). Every build gets the locust talents at 13 and 16, and the level 1 talent is just an option you can choose over mine damage. Since the 13/16 talents are standard, even if you take the L1 locust talent and therefore have 3 (4 at 20) talents focused completely on your locusts, you're still not playing a "minion" build since the only actual choice for Abathur talents is on the pre-10 talents, so those are what define the label of your build. You're either playing a hat build (1 or no mine talents) or a mine build (2 or more mine talents), the other builds are not viable.

Also, I still play QM and MMR still applies there. There is an obvious difference in how the game is played between various MMR brackets. At my MMR people are far more likely to rotate, gank and soak properly. When I play with a friend who is roughly 1k lower MMR I notice that people there tend to tunnel vision in lanes, never rotate and still go for the outdated 2-1-2 lane splits and such. In such situations the power of Abathur with a mine build is greatly diminished, because no one is rotating anyway. In higher MMR the value of the mine build becomes much higher because it gives a huge safety net to your team and gives a lot of map control and vision that you won't get without the mine talents. So the real argument is not "you're bad if you don't do what I do", the argument is "the mine build is clearly superior and the only way you can argue it's not is if you play at the MMR range where a mine build provides barely half the value it normally does because people play wrongly".

I hate to jump into arguments of others, but I think you guys are completely ignoring Lesane's first post about Abathur.

He said Abathur has one viable build (with slight variations) and he is right. All the other 'lesser' talent builds are way more situational and the areas they cover can be fulfilled better by other Heroes. There is no other Hero in game who can do the same thing as Abathur with Mine Build, slowing down and revealing rotations is very powerful tool. Not flashy, but if your team can work with the information while Abathur is soaking experience, enemy team is in a tough spot.

Sure you can play other builds, but in competitive or high end games they don't work because you can just pick other Heroes who can fulfill that task better while having other tricks. Right now, I think Abathur is only picked on big maps and against Falstad or Dehaka when one was picked and the other banned. He simply isn't picked to support or push lanes.

Pretty much this. You pick Abathur for the permanent global presence, which heavily relies on the level 7 and 4 mine talents. The mine build makes it so that people can't properly walk around the map without revealing themselves and getting heavily slowed down in the process, which leads to advantages that Abathur's team can snowball on.

[Mormolyce]

Lesane is completely correct. This is not a "LOL U FOLLOW A GUIDE 100%" issue - it's that all other choices Abathur have are extremely situational and just not as good (and annoying) as his mine build.
Zagara has the same issue here - an issue Blizz agrees on. She has really only one viable build, with some situational picks (lvl 7), the rest are pretty much cookie cutter talent choices.

I am saying that he has situational builds. And I think people are overstating how much better mine build is versus others. There are plenty of ways to counter mines.

I think the situation is different with Zagara, who has maybe two decent builds and her main one is clearly the strongest. Frankly, that's because her W is grossly overpowered and allows her to function as a full assassin with the right choices without sacrificing any of her (premiere) laning ability, so why WOULDN'T you take that build? Plus maw is so much stronger than Nydus that you'd almost always play into her teamfight abilities.

Abathur without a mines build is much less hindered than Zagara without her cookie cutter build.

I'll stop now.