[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Taeldorian]

@Nemmar Said classes do favor other stats largely over others. Fury warriors in WoD were almost unbearable in Highmaul due to how much they required crit but couldn't get it because the gear wasn't optimized for it. Other classes like fire Mage have had to deal with the same shit, although most of their problems have been fixed in Legion. It's not like we'll be haste stacking forever. Once we get a certain % of haste we can focus on secondary stats. Focusing in on one stat isn't a problem especially when it's on a large majority of our tier pieces.

I don't really think it'll fix the specs problems until way later though, that's what I'm concerned with. As you said before we shouldn't have to wait till later to have fun with our spec it should be fun right away, but it isn't. That's why I recommended a base amount of haste to start with so we can start off as a fun spec and focus on other stats as well.

[Ulthane]

It's still funny to read here.
People who are testing since the beginning of the Alpha - are giving positive Feedback to you guys here, aren't taking really serious.



This is so iconic to this thread, really.
@Ulthane

It's kinda funny, that in every second Post of yours you're comming up with rework.
Don't get me wrong, it's just funny .
Blizzard isn't going to chance all these things you mentioned over the last 100 pages.

Guys, the people here with Beta-access are testing for you - don't "blame" them.
Many posts aren't really "nice", for no reason.
They sacrifice their time to give you guys here an insight, on what's going on, etc.

That's how I roll yo! That's how Ulthane do!!!

But to be fair as I said before it was a compilation of ideas really that hit usually after every build and then it stopped and solidified mainly about Judgment and it's mechanic.... whiiiich has be brought up in beta by others as well noticing soooooo. Also I've been nice to everyone :F I gave out the most cookies

[Deleted]

I don't see Blizzard changing back to WoD design honestly. I feel they are too stubborn for that sort of thing(See Flying...sorta). We'd probably wait until Expansion 7 for an actual decent revamp to Paladins. I assumed we were going to get one but what's odd is we got one ability change and we got this cumbersome rotation.




Maybe it's because people like Lobster(When it comes to Equality and the Haste issue) aren't necessarily right? I mean just because they give positive feedback to Blizzard doesn't mean they're just right.

1. I didn't mean a WoD level but the first Legion Level . Where we had all the current tools but the Mastery is the Old Hand of Light and Judge increased the Finisher output by a flat amount.
2. Yup , doesn't mean he is wrong either. Equality may have it's uses this is beyond question - the only question becomes will this be a time use per Year - like Emp.Seals or will it actually have a active function. The latter is highly doubtfull since it has too many limitations that consists off premature death and stupid gameplay in order to benefit from it in the first place.
As for haste , like i said he isn't wrong that haste will change things - in fact it will change it far too significantly to such a extend that the whole intended design will be defeated and it will come down back to the "press shit that comes off of CD gameplay".
Otherwise , we are Human - People. Flawed to the core with a high subjective view of things. Everybody is right in many things , even someone like Lob , Reg or me who have been playing now for more than a decade this shitty little class.

[Ulthane]

@Zartorus I've been focused on Judgment anyways. Also it was common knowledge that equality was gonna be op or useless. There is no middle ground, said it before and I'll say it again lol

[Deleted]

That's how I roll yo! That's how Ulthane do!!!

But to be fair as I said before it was a compilation of ideas really that hit usually after every build and then it stopped and solidified mainly about Judgment and it's mechanic.... whiiiich has be brought up in beta by others as well noticing soooooo. Also I've been nice to everyone :F I gave out the most cookies

It's a valid tactic actually. Just throw shit at the wall and by mere product of chance something is just bound by mathmatical laws to stick unto it.

Otherwise no one seems to care to explain what would then be a valid go to action at this point . i mean we have ran around circles around ourself by law we should be helicopters by now.
And simply accepting fate and admit defeat would be the most moronic thing we could do. - History has proven my point far too many times.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

1. I didn't mean a WoD level but the first Legion Level . Where we had all the current tools but the Mastery is the Old Hand of Light and Judge increased the Finisher output by a flat amount.
2. Yup , doesn't mean he is wrong either. Equality may have it's uses this is beyond question - the only question becomes will this be a time use per Year - like Emp.Seals or will it actually have a active function. The latter is highly doubtfull since it has too many limitations that consists off premature death and stupid gameplay in order to benefit from it in the first place.
As for haste , like i said he isn't wrong that haste will change things - in fact it will change it far too significantly to such a extend that the whole intended design will be defeated and it will come down back to the "press shit that comes off of CD gameplay".
Otherwise , we are Human - People. Flawed to the core with a high subjective view of things. Everybody is right in many things , even someone like Lob , Reg or me who have been playing now for more than a decade this shitty little class.

I get that but in all things eventually someone is going to hit the right answer. Not always going to be known what that right is.

[Ulthane]

It's a valid tactic actually. Just throw shit at the wall and by mere product of chance something is just bound by mathmatical laws to stick unto it.

Otherwise no one seems to care to explain what would then be a valid go to action at this point . i mean we have ran around circles around ourself by law we should be helicopters by now.
And simply accepting fate and admit defeat would be the most moronic thing we could do. - History has proven my point far too many times.

Fight for Judgment 2016

[Morally Grey Storm]

BTW i like how everyone bitched and moaned when warlords came and how we didnt want haste and how making the rotation work without haste feels wrong. Now that we have good scaling on both haste AND mastery your bitching again about why we have to get haste on gear........
Or how equality got a buff 2 builds ago, people said it would still be shit and could never compete, one person puts a video about how OP it has become and now your bitching about it again.Literally no winning with you guys.

god fucking damnit reg.

Guys, the people here with Beta-access are testing for you - don't "blame" them.
Many posts aren't really "nice", for no reason.
They sacrifice their time to give you guys here an insight, on what's going on, etc.

I respect that they are testing (with obvious exception of reg), and I don't blame you lot .
Thing is, you are acting (namely you and reg) kind of high and mighty, like if having alpha\beta access instantly makes your opinion right and most improtant.
It doesnt.

Your "insight" is still just a personal view, still a subjective opinion.
Everyone has different tastes: Lobster loves Equality, Solsacra loves theorycrafting, Thete loves to brood and mope etc etc. Everyone is entitled to their agenda and opinion.
Don't act like you know what's right or wrong or how we are supposed to react to your heroically epic and epically heroic efforts to test it out.

Many a post are entirely not nice for obvious reason: we are fething tired of seeing 3rd world treatment of Retribution Paladins, we are unhappy with what we're seeing, we dislike what like Retribution(and the whole Legion) is shaping up to be.

I hate what I'm seeing personally.
It's so fething awful and disgusting I'm amazed anyone can enjoy slugging back and forth with only just normal runspeed to move you from A to B.

Don't give me crap about Derpony or Seal of Doesnt Work Until You're Already in Melee.
It's awful.

[Deleted]

Fight for Judgment 2016

Is that something like fightclub? The first rule of Judgement Club - you don't speak nicely about Judgement?

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god fucking damnit reg.

You just gotta love that all your post after Reg wrote anything are starting with "god fehting/fucking/fooookin/ Reg"

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I've had enough of these mother fething equalities on these mother fething talent trees.



I had to do it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You just gotta love that all your post after Reg wrote anything are starting with "god fehting/fucking/fooookin/ Reg"

Not all posts you silly.
Only those posts where he blurts nonsense.

[-Skye]

So how is ret looking in legion in comparison to live?

[Teleros]

You just gotta love that all your post after Reg wrote anything are starting with "god fehting/fucking/fooookin/ Reg"

Pretty sure Storm just has a keyboard shortcut for it at this stage.

= + =

Missed this...

BTW i like how everyone bitched and moaned when warlords came and how we didnt want haste and how making the rotation work without haste feels wrong. Now that we have good scaling on both haste AND mastery your bitching again about why we have to get haste on gear...

Kind of twisting what they're saying, no?

1. Levelling in Legion will suck as our haste drops off a cliff, but once you get to max level and fairly well geared, the Judgement window is irrelevant, so WTF is the point of the Judgement window?
2. Why does Ret need haste to make things work well, as opposed to just getting a nice benefit from it the same way it does from crit or mastery?

I'm not saying I agree with these views (or that I disagree, FWIW), but it's not quite what you're saying...

Or how equality got a buff 2 builds ago, people said it would still be shit and could never compete, one person puts a video about how OP it has become and now your bitching about it again.Literally no winning with you guys.

It's not the players, it's the talent.

In PvE, it will never be #1, no way no how.

In PvP, it will either be junk (3min CD but only does 25% damage) or OP (see Legion beta). Hence the complaints.

There is no middle ground for Equality in PvP. None. Nada. Zero.

(BTW no more multistrike stat, only crit, haste,mastery, and versatility for those who missed it)

Yeah, probably just as well. I wouldn't mind it if some specs had MS instead of crit (some rogues & demon hunters for example), but on the whole I was never fond of multi-strike.

I do worry that secondary stats are a bit limited / dumbed down now though. I mean, DPS has gone from Hit/Exp/Crit/Mas/Haste to Crit/Mas/Haste + Versatility in PvP. That's quite a drop, even if you allow for the removal of reforging.

[Deleted]

So how is ret looking in legion in comparison to live?

If you don't mind strong languages , a very many "god fooking damnit Regs" , complainings , a armada of ideas and me finding shit hilarious . You kinda have 257 pages to read the general opinion here.
But to put things into words. Not that great from a gameplay perspective.

[-Skye]

If you don't mind strong languages , a very many "god fooking damnit Regs" , complainings , a armada of ideas and me finding shit hilarious . You kinda have 257 pages to read the general opinion here.
But to put things into words. Not that great from a gameplay perspective.

On live the rotation feels smooth, feels like we have nice sustained damage, decent mobility and nice utility. Is all that going down the shitter? I don't have time to read 257 pages

[Ulthane]

Is that something like fightclub? The first rule of Judgement Club - you don't speak nicely about Judgement?

- - - Updated - - -



You just gotta love that all your post after Reg wrote anything are starting with "god fehting/fucking/fooookin/ Reg"

Exactly, Judgment gotta get some work.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

On live the rotation feels smooth, feels like we have nice sustained damage, decent mobility and nice utility. Is all that going down the shitter? I don't have time to read 257 pages

Our damage on Beta seems to be good. It's just the rotation and class design that is lacking.

[Taeldorian]

So how is ret looking in legion in comparison to live?

Just read the thread, not many here like it at all (including myself) but a few absolutely love it. Judgement mechanic is stupid but gets better with haste, that's still a problem because nobody wants to wait until we have enough haste or rather nobody should have to. Spec should be fun to play from the start, not way later into the expac.

You have to decide for yourself if you like it or not because some people here do, others don't. In my personal opinion I dislike it so much I'm moving over to prot instead, at least until they fix ret.

-Hardly any healing
-Hardly any mobility
-Blessings being combat locked, so if someone that has your blessing dies you can't give it to another. That could be a giant hit to your dps.
-Slow rotation until you get more haste which is later on, meaning the spec isn't fun until then.

That's how I see it. The positives are:

1. The rotation will get better, but that's over time.
2. We just need 1 baseline mobility thing to have decent mobility (in PvE)
3. We could have decent healing with the vengeance talent as well as the possible return of selfless healer
4. Have good support/defensives

You gotta decide for yourself, people are just going to hit you with subjective views, just like I did in this post.

[Deleted]

On live the rotation feels smooth, feels like we have nice sustained damage, decent mobility and nice utility. Is all that going down the shitter? I don't have time to read 257 pages

All in all , at the beginning you will puke more biomass out than you have ever consumed. But once you got gear with a certain amount of haste you just smash your head on the keybord and will be doing just fine.
Besides thats. Our mobility is gone - litteraly. We have only one thing that we can choose from two Talents within the same row. Our defensiv is questionable and our offensiv is tied to arms Colossal smash typ gameplay with Judge being the CS. Our AE is crap since our mastery doesn't affect AE that much , or not really to beginn with yet you can talent into Greater judge which makes judge hit 3 additional mobs around the inital target.
But you can , at least for now , blow people relativly fast into tiny handy pieces , but also you will be kited all day long.
PvE looks a bit dire right now since the current content hates meeles and especialy the ones with a low mobility. DPS may be good but this is currently an unknown.

At the end of the day , many people do not really like - or outright hate - rets current state.

[Morally Grey Storm]

On live the rotation feels smooth, feels like we have nice sustained damage, decent mobility and nice utility. Is all that going down the shitter? I don't have time to read 257 pages

do you like current mobility Ret has? - forget about it, you will be as mobile as a fething onelegged cancer-infested cripple .
do you like current team utility Ret has? - forget about it, HoSac goes away, aswell as all offhealing potential, 2 charges on Hand spells along with HoPurity.
do you like current hybrid range/melee Ret has? - forget about it, you are going to be so fething melee arms warriors will weep they were as melee as we are going to be.
do you like current rotation Ret has? - forget about it, you are arms warrior now, without the benefits but with crappy damage dealing window, retarded HoPo which for obvious reasons are removed from Prot/Holy but not from Ret.

Do you get the picture?