Tier gear is back into lfr!!

[Moozart]

Lol Blizzard caves in to forum QQ once again.

If all those people "QQ"ing stopped paying there would be no wow, the casuals are the majority, if the majority leaves whats left? Not much.

Its business 101, majority rules

[Adamas102]

About damn time they changed this back. Probably the best Legion related news I've heard in a while.

[Sylvestra]

So don't do it. No one is forcing you to go there and do it. If others want to do it, then how is that impacting you?

This dumb ass argument of "you're not forced to go there". You need to realize there's people out there that min-max their characters. It's like people say they don't like the shipyard, "well, don't do it no one forces you blabla" oh yeah I'll pass on the mandatory legendary ring. Get it in your head that some players don't want to be a burden to their raiding guild. THANK YOU!

I don't want LFR to be part of character progression, it needs to be completely not worth it to complete for my main or my alts. The feature is completely braindead and provides no gameplay whatsoever. Sure maybe you want to just look around you and auto attack, go ahead. But you should be awarded properly ... aka no reward. Aslong as LFR is not the best way to get geared pre-normal raid I am completely fine with the feature. I don't want to ever feel the need to queue for it.

[Deleted User Guy]

About damn time they changed this back. Probably the best Legion related news I've heard in a while.

That, and I'm happy they lifted the limitation on crafting as well.

[Grosbill]

I run a successful World 50 guild. I have yet to find ANY casual player that meets our standards. So they are entirely useless unless they become better players.

Look.

Everyone starts low. Everyone was a bad player. Some of us put time&work, might even took years for some, and we got there in the end. If you stay where you started, you're as useless as an AH bot that posts farm stuff so I can buy it for raids.

So yeah, you need to better your condition, and one of the motivating factors is and always was the gear. This is why you don't deserve anything good outside organized raiding, rated PvP and CMs.

Many of you disagree and it's fine.

But through all the insults (aspergers, self worth, grow up, punch me in the face...), there's but one thing you should remember.

- Some of us joined this game for A REASON, in 2005. We wanted to compete, and the game PROVIDED COMPETITION and rewarded the neckbeards.

It is to be expected that those that joined for that reason long for the same climate and abhor casuals getting rewarded. Again - once you better your condition, you stop being a casual, so those players should be encouraged to go further and helped, not criticized.

Newsflash mr "Top 50 guild" (lol as if that's relevant), the game still provides competition and has never been harder than it is now (as you should know if you've truly been raiding at the top for 11 years ;-)). Also that "casual crowd" you seem to despise so much is what makes this game thrive and live. Without them you'll end up with a wildstar fiasco and be lonely with no one to recruit or send you tells with "OMG UR SO HOT PLZ HAVE MAH BABZ"

[roahn the warlock]

I mean that's the other way to deal with it but people are so obsessed with denying others the same rewards they would rather those rewards be gutted and burned to the ground.

In diablo if you don't do torment 10, you can get tier gear, but the droprate is super super low.

[Laerrus]

and so we return to raid or die as lfr makes all world content trivial and largely a waste of time


...yaaay.

If you are an oldschool raider, you shouldn't even be stepping foot into LFR, except perhaps to get easy enchanting materials. LFR is specifically for those of us who no longer have the time or cannot afford the time to raid like we used to on a fixed schedule.

You shouldn't even be going into normal modes either, which was meant for casual raiders.

Heroic mode is meant for traditional guild raiding, stick to those and stay out of my LFRs please.

[roahn the warlock]

Why not? They pay the same amount per month, they can choose what they will and won't do (or maybe are bound by time constraints, etc). Saying someone else who plays "shouldn't get" something because they don't play the same way as you do is pretty damn elitist. (And wrong).

I pay a monthly fee to my GYM, it doesn't mean I can lift the 200 pound weights like the guys who bodybuild.

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Can the "pro" raiders just stay in their lane please, if you need the set bonuses so badly then you aren't as pro as you think you are...

its mostly casual raiders who get upset. Idk why we get lumped in with hardcore players. The majority of raiders are casual puggers.

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If you are an oldschool raider, you shouldn't even be stepping foot into LFR, except perhaps to get easy enchanting materials. LFR is specifically for those of us who no longer have the time or cannot afford the time to raid like we used to on a fixed schedule.

You shouldn't even be going into normal modes either, which was meant for casual raiders.

Heroic mode is meant for traditional guild raiding, stick to those and stay out of my LFRs please.

Well. You say that, but then you realize LFR in MoP was a wipefest that took hours to complete, not to mention the 30-60 minute wait in queue where you couldn't dungeon or join a group for anything.

Then you realize in WoD they added a LFG tool to pug normal raids, then you realize that normal(flex) raiding up to mythic can actually be pugged.

When I was in college I schooled and worked 20 hours a week ontop of it. Come december I was 13/13 heroic, raiding for 4 hours a week on average. So.... Honestly, try Flex(normal) with the LFG tool, you might like it. I'm now 7/13 mythic, and I still do not have a raiding guild.

[Moozart]

You can thrive without tier gear.

What did you do to earn it?

Paid $15 a month with the other 70% of the "casual" player-base that makes it even possible for you and the rest of us that raid to have a game to run a "top 50" guild in. Not sure why you think because you are a raider you can be an arrogant ass, no wonder the rest of the player base dislikes us so much. Many of us raid at the level you do , not sure why you have to treat those that do not like garbage for it. A casual getting a tier piece in lfr in NO WAY affects my progressing in end game.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Going to start off with yes, I am a mythic raider. I also think certain items should be exclusive to the effort people put into them. But the line has to be drawn at a certain point.

I think we all love that set bonus and amazing trinkets exist. It would suck if a set bonus was just 2 piece - 100 haste for example. We want them to be innovative and fun. To change the game play up a bit. But if we do that and also make it have a hard line on access it starts to cause a problem. Let me explain from a personal experience of mine.

A good example is on my shaman alt. The difference between my DPS without the set bonus and then with the was monstrous. Like 30k difference. Trinkets were like another massive jump of like 30k. On top of that I am going to be frank. I am not that skilled or masterful with the shaman. It is a 100% pure just a play it because I don't got shit else to do right now type of character. But the sad thing is really my item level only really increased by about 10 with before it being in bumped up Jungle gear. Now it being a mix of normal and heroic gear from the current raid.

This creates a huge barrier of entry in my opinion. It causes a ton of shaming. I was kicked form pugs because my "DPS was shit bro" in that jungle gear. I get those the set bonus and a trinket and I push the same keys as before, in the same mind set, without any practice or research and suddenly I am ranking in the top 2-3 in the run unless of course if their is a monster heroic geared or mythic gear character in the normal/heroic run for whatever reason.

It simply created to big of a power gap for to small of an item level increase. Sure if its 2 or 3 tiers down the road fine. If its a 10% difference I think we can work around that. But it simply got to insane to fast how far the gap got behind itself. Gear created from the same patch was like half as effective but only slightly smaller item level wise. But at the same time we all love getting super powerful. Tossing these things out in LFR slows down the power curve a bit and has people playing the same game with the same possibilities but only at a diminished stat value for the level of difficulty they choose to challenge. So higher end players will be more powerful. They will be rewarded with better, stronger, and interesting gear. But people in the lower levels won't be total dog shit as a result.

Not to mention you have to ask yourself who does this really hurt? I mean sure now I might run LFR on my toon once or twice those first couple weeks. It undoubtedly will get under my skin a few times. I might get that set bonus and that is why I will I will personally choose to risk a bit of frustration. But that is again totally by choice. Then after 2 or 3 weeks I am done with it. My raid is getting those pieces from guild heroic runs while we are progressing into mythic. In the mean time when I que up in a random 5 man or a BG the random people to my left and right aren't total dog shit because of having certain things being totally exclusive. That honestly really sounds like a win to me. It should to you too. Unless of course the only reason you play the game is to show how bad ass you are to people that don't give a shit and won't remember you 20 minutes after you exit their frame.

End of the day for being a mythic raider I will still have better gear. I will still have that fancy mount from the end of the zone. I will have had the raiding experience I wanted to have. Yes maybe I get pissy for a few weeks because I made the choice to go into LFR for a set bonus but it wasn't the end of the world. No one forced me to do it. If someone tries to then they are the really asshat of the story. But sure, to help my team, I will be doing it. But again.. choice.. not forced.

[Moozart]

That's a very bad "argument". I pay so that pet battlers and PvPers do their stuff, yet I never touch those. I never complain however about this "issue".

You have to earn your gear. Tier gear can be obtained in NORMAL, which take minimal effort and is almost as easy as LFR.

If you DECIDE, by your own volition, to not do it, you shouldn't have a single piece, not even for mog.

the point you cant seem to get into your head is that is the MAJORITY, the casuals paying that $15 a month that makes it even possible for us to have progression to even push. If all the casuals left and it was just us raiders paying how long do you honestly think this game would last.

Do you think a millionaire gives a shit that a guy wins 10k on a scratch ticket? NOPE, because hes a millionaire

[Xerra]

They should make the 2 piece of LFR gear be you are 25% larger, and the 4 piece bonus that anyone with a higher ilvl than you looks like they are wearing all Twill grays.

Also I think pets should be taken out of raids. As raids have nothing to do with pet battles so its creating a 'forced to raid' setting for all the pokemon trainers in WoW.

[Lieutenant Dan]

the point you cant seem to get into your head is that is the MAJORITY, the casuals paying that $15 a month that makes it even possible for us to have progression to even push. If all the casuals left and it was just us raiders paying how long do you honestly think this game would last.

Do you think a millionaire gives a shit that a guy wins 10k on a scratch ticket? NOPE, because hes a millionaire

That's a really stupid analogy.

[Dalheim]

I prefer Hellfire Citadel's system that LFR gear did have set bonuses, but not the same ones as actually tier gear.

I am all for Tier set models for LFR, but they dont need to have the tier bonuses.

[Xerra]

Armor set bonuses should only be on dungeon gear because raiders already get the higher ilvl to give them a crutch in content.

[Traveler Voltin]

And here comes the butt hurt elitists

[irdsyd]

I hope proper tier gear and good trinkets are back in LFR. As a casual player who raids and who has no interest in becoming a mythic raider again it means lfr provides a gearing pathway to the raiding level I currently do. At the moment LFR in terms of gear is a waste of time for nearly everyone. On the other hand (having been a mythic raider) I understand that feeling of revolt that you have to do LFR (especially when/if it wasn't faceroll) to complete tier sets or get that special trinket. I'm not sure there's a solution unless there was some lockout system and Im sure that would go down like lead balloons on steroids.

[Glorious Leader]

In diablo if you don't do torment 10, you can get tier gear, but the droprate is super super low.

Sure. In D2 their was no torment. Gear was a joke to get. I'm not a fan of rng mind you but either is better than locking it behind non lfr raiding.

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They don't need RAIDING TIER. Give'em fluff, I don't care, don't give them things that are traditionally part of the raiding rewards. Give them foam sword replicas, mogs, ponies.

Yea they tried that in WoD. Guess what happened..

[Grosbill]

You can thrive without tier gear.

What did you do to earn it?

I too took this game as if it was a second job, I may no longer be top 10 US, but I still clear all content on a *gasp* casual schedule of two raid nights a week. LFR is what enabled my alts to be enjoyable in MoP and unplayable in WoD.

I welcome the change and unlike you, I've never seen the "plebs" as an annoyance. The real whinners, annoying spoiled brats who complain all the time and say the game is "shit" and "too casual" and "too dumbed down" are the self called "hardcore" who "work" for what they get

[Glorious Leader]

That's a very bad "argument". I pay so that pet battlers and PvPers do their stuff, yet I never touch those. I never complain however about this "issue".

You have to earn your gear. Tier gear can be obtained in NORMAL, which take minimal effort and is almost as easy as LFR.

If you DECIDE, by your own volition, to not do it, you shouldn't have a single piece, not even for mog.

And he will be earning it.. IN LFR.