IMO WoW Story has been very shallow and poorly constructed since Cataclysm

[SirBeef]

I've always been a lore buff in WoW, having read every book, comic and in-game material dating back to Warcraft 2. But I feel that the story has been very bland since the end of Wrath, almost as if they just don't know what to do to motivate players to do things anymore.


Arthas was a villain that had great amounts of buildup and connections to many, if not all, of the major characters in WoWs history in one way or another. So with his death it seems to have left the story at a sort of stale point.

Deathwing was very improperly used and honestly I'm disappointed in just how much they didn't do with him considering his past, powers and overall character. The same goes for the story in MoP and WoD where the story seems to be forced upon us but with very little reason to be worried about it at all.

So far in Legion Beta I'm not really feeling the threat all that much. Val'Sharah probably has the most going on from a narrative perspective, but the other zones seem to be the same old thing. "This group accepted Fel power. Kill them."

What are your thoughts? Do you think the story of WoW has been interesting?

OK, I am so glad you started off with IMO, becasue too often people think they speak for all of us here. Arthas was a pretty shallow enemy IMO. I mean how many time could he show up and announce that he could kill you but he'll let you gain tremendous powers and armies to kill him. If he was truly a threat he would have curb stomped our asses the moment he found us. At least DW was too busy putting his plans in motion to taunt us along the way. And when he did show up, he torched half the zone and killed everything in his way. But that is my opinion.

I feel the story has done nothing but get better starting with Cata. Yeah Val'Sharah has the biggest "oh shit we are really fucked" moment(s) but the other zones lead into it. I mean if there were a story flow of the 4 zones It would start with Stormheim, to Highmountain, Azsuna, Val'Sharah, then Suramar in order of mounting threat, but each major zone conflict is important to the overall story.

Overall, I think the story post WotLK, has been better and more interesting. Finally glad to be moving on past the old RTS hangups most people seem to have and on to new different things.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is a flip-side to this, though. When they try to introduce completely new characters and put a lot of focus on them, a lot of players tend to reject them. There's a lot of hate for Taran Zhu, Yrel, Wrathion, etc. Or they get completely ignored, like Sunwalker Dezco. There's one part of the fandom that wants new characters and are tired of always dealing with the same familiar ones, and then there's another part that wants familiar characters and hate it when a new character gets the spotlight instead.

Blizzard's problem is that they're trying to make everyone happy, but they do a terrible job at it. So the same 3-4 familiar characters are overused, while new characters join the story in such a forced way that nobody cares for them and they quickly fade into the background.

I don't believe they are trying to make everyone happy. They know and understand they have a game that has attracted many players all with different interests in the game. If they tried to please everyone they would never release another expansion becasue it would take too much time to cater new and improved things for all those different aspects of the game.

Now, if we take the rumors/pseudo information we have about Legion being developed and worked on simultaneously with WoD, Legion took almost 4 years to make. Legion seems to have some major revamps of systems that touch almost all of the different interests in the game. If we were to get an expansion every 4 years then I would concede that they are trying to make everyone happy, I just don't think that they are. I think most of the time people go my area of the game isn't getting the attention I think it deserves becasue Blizzard is trying to cater to everyone all at once.

[SirCowdog]

The major problem I have with the story in WoW...is that I don't know what it is! I knew what it was with Wrath because of WCIII, but after that the only things that even led me towards the major plot lines was the opening trailer and the opening "A-new-land-lets-fly-there-and-setup-an-outpost" quest. I thought WoD did a decent job in Shadowmoon Valley, but still, it expected me to know a lot about the lore already, so I would be like "oh hey, its that guy from that thing that should be dead but now he isn't, i think."

And the lore in general is very Soap Opera (like GoT, like House of Cards, like Walking Dead...basically anything people really love), and that's because if Blizz decided to really change things up and move the story along, they would have to, most likely, kill off several major characters, or even jump the story ahead, which is near impossible to do in an MMO where we exist in the "persistent" world. Plus for me, the time travel-alternate world crap has gotten so out of hand that it just makes me feel like even if they kill off Jaina/Thrall/Sylvanas/Your mom, it doesn't seem that important because they'll probably alter it in the next expansion.

I think at one point in cata there was a LOT of the lore stuffed into the novels, and if you didn't read them you missed out of the context for things that happened in the game. But also a lot of the lore is easy to miss if you don't do ALLLLLLLLL of the quests everywhere, and all of the dungeons and raids.

It's definitely a problem of presentation.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, I am so glad you started off with IMO, becasue too often people think they speak for all of us here. Arthas was a pretty shallow enemy IMO. I mean how many time could he show up and announce that he could kill you but he'll let you gain tremendous powers and armies to kill him. If he was truly a threat he would have curb stomped our asses the moment he found us. At least DW was too busy putting his plans in motion to taunt us along the way. And when he did show up, he torched half the zone and killed everything in his way. But that is my opinion.

Wasn't it Arthas' entire plan to build up the power of the player-characters, though? He wasn't about smashing us outright, but wanted to keep testing us and making us stronger so he would have the ultimate fighting force possible. Arthas' plan didn't fail. He didn't screw up. He didn't fall to his own wrath or hubris. He was executing the master stroke from the seat of his power when...."THE LIGHT"!!!! TROLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

Talk about a failure of writing. Up until that point I thought Arthas was a pretty good character.

[oplawlz]

I think there is a flip-side to this, though. When they try to introduce completely new characters and put a lot of focus on them, a lot of players tend to reject them. There's a lot of hate for Taran Zhu, Yrel, Wrathion, etc. Or they get completely ignored, like Sunwalker Dezco. There's one part of the fandom that wants new characters and are tired of always dealing with the same familiar ones, and then there's another part that wants familiar characters and hate it when a new character gets the spotlight instead.

Blizzard's problem is that they're trying to make everyone happy, but they do a terrible job at it. So the same 3-4 familiar characters are overused, while new characters join the story in such a forced way that nobody cares for them and they quickly fade into the background.

They're rejected because they're poorly written and forced upon us. Wrathion was probably the least interesting character added to the game, I feel more emotionally attached to Budd than him. The pandas were all rejected because they're a shallow super-stereotype that didn't belong in the game. Yrel was not well written, and got pushed through with time wasting cutscenes rather than through more organic means.

Blaming players for not being interested in things that arent interesting is just silly logic.

The books are mostly cringe-worthy, really painful dialogue paired with over-simplistic plots, ensuring that no one except hardcore warcraft fans read them. This is a shame, as some really well written fiction could reignite interest.

[SirCowdog]

I think there is a flip-side to this, though. When they try to introduce completely new characters and put a lot of focus on them, a lot of players tend to reject them. There's a lot of hate for Taran Zhu, Yrel, Wrathion, etc. Or they get completely ignored, like Sunwalker Dezco. There's one part of the fandom that wants new characters and are tired of always dealing with the same familiar ones, and then there's another part that wants familiar characters and hate it when a new character gets the spotlight instead.

Blizzard's problem is that they're trying to make everyone happy, but they do a terrible job at it. So the same 3-4 familiar characters are overused, while new characters join the story in such a forced way that nobody cares for them and they quickly fade into the background.

Well I don't know wtf they're going to do in Legion then, because they're killing off/retiring a bunch of old characters, and none of the new ones really seems to have much focus or depth to them. I mean....what has Taran Zhu been doing during WoD? Does Wrathion even make an appearance in the current expansion?

I think that's why they're trying to play this angle with Illidan in Legion. He's a fan favorite from the original RTS games. But they need to really do something with the supporting characters as well. Maybe that's what order halls are going to be for? I know they've said they want to avoid the mass army of nameless minions like we had in the Garrison, and go with a smaller roster of more important characters.

Whatever they do, they need to flesh out these characters.

[Darkarath]

They're rejected because they're poorly written and forced upon us. Wrathion was probably the least interesting character added to the game, I feel more emotionally attached to Budd than him. The pandas were all rejected because they're a shallow super-stereotype that didn't belong in the game. Yrel was not well written, and got pushed through with time wasting cutscenes rather than through more organic means.

Blaming players for not being interested in things that arent interesting is just silly logic.

The books are mostly cringe-worthy, really painful dialogue paired with over-simplistic plots, ensuring that no one except hardcore warcraft fans read them. This is a shame, as some really well written fiction could reignite interest.

I really like Wrathion, he's the last member of the Black Dragonflight, just for that he's very interesting, and he's always walking between the line of good/evil. I'm looking forward to see his development.

Yrel, it's ok. Not bad, not good. Although I like that they introduced a new Draenei hero, and I like that she's a female hero. We will have to wait to see how they develop her.

The pandas were awesome IMO. I really like how they portrayed them, their culture and their story seems well established. My only complain is that I don´t see how they will be important again after MoP.

About the books, I think that they´re improving in the last years. I hate Knaak writing and his books. Golden is meh. I found the Illidan novel enjoyable and it gives me some hope for future novels.

[McNeil]

They should've made a new RTS game in the middle of the 12 year content drought after WotLK, building up some new characters who could later appear in WoW at some point. Characters like Arthas, Illidan, Kael, Sylvanas and Thrall etc were all loved because you got to play and know them in WC3, so you were looking forward to face them in WoW. When WoW now starts making random major characters like Yrel and Taran Zhu, its really hard for me to care about them. I think its just because the storytelling in a MMORPG can't be as good as in a RTS, but I wouldn't call their execution done well for what I've seen. Especially Yrel felt more or less of a token character.

The storyTELLING has definately improved as questing mechanics improve with each expansion, but the story itself just doesn't interest me most of the times. Especially Cata had a lot of cringeworthy stuff in the 1-60 revamp, like turning several zones into complete jokes (Westfall being a giant CSI parody, Redridge being a Rambo parody, Uldum... to much Indiana Jones). We came from an expansion with an epic death of Arthas, and then they throw this shit at us...

[SirCowdog]

I really like Wrathion, he's the last member of the Black Dragonflight, just for that he's very interesting, and he's always walking between the line of good/evil. I'm looking forward to see his development.

Which is why I facepalm at removing the epic cloak quests from MoP. Remove the cloak reward, sure. Preserve the "epic" reward for people who did it when it was relevant, or whatever. Replace it with something else. But leave the quest and the lore.

rel, it's ok. Not bad, not good. Although I like that they introduced a new Draenei hero, and I like that she's a female hero. We will have to wait to see how they develop her.

I can almost guarantee you she'll stay in alternate Draenor "for her people". Which sucks, because I liked her progress in WoD and think it'll be a waste to not have her story continue.

[Imnick]

Warcraft, even pre-WoW, has never been deep.

[Deleted]

Not sure how you can claim that when MOP's story is universally loved.

It's the hip thing to do. Everything after Arthas is crap, and I didn'teven play it, because WoW died with the Lich King, but anyway, Warctaft lore is terrible, but I'm not even reading quest text so lol.

[Deleted]

Arthas was a villain that had great amounts of buildup and connections to many, if not all, of the major characters in WoWs history in one way or another. So with his death it seems to have left the story at a sort of stale point.

Arthas was impressive in Warcraft 3, not in Wotlk.
He went to be a paladin, destroying a city (Stratholme), betraying mercenaries, leaving his friend (Muradin) "dead" to claim a haunted sword, just to have his revenge. And all of that, for "good" reasons (Saving his people). Then murder his father to have his crown, his mentor (Uther), without any emotions, to ressurect a dead necromancer, while murdering elves, torturing their "army leader" (Sylvanas), and after Archimonde fail, hunt every survivor in Lordaeron, and go in Northrend again to merge with the Lich King.

In Wotlk, he lost every single battle, lose every single part of his territory, had countless time to kill us, and only for his "plan" (Having the best champions to ressurect).
Just to be killed by a paladin who jump on him with his plate armor and destroy his sword.

MoP story was way better than Arthas one in WoW.
I didn't like Cataclysm because of the area, they had no link between them besides "Go here, it's your next quest area", compared to MoP or WoD.

[Fojos]

The lore was much mmore shallow in the past, especially in-game. Current lore is basically just elaborations of the old lore, so how could it be more shallow?

[Eon Drache]

TBC and Vanilla had a hugely shit story. Vanilla was just copy/paste from the RTS games and TBC butchered everything in the ground. Wrath was ok... Arthas felt more like a joke rather than an actual villain because he wanted us to live so he could "Train us". Cataclysm forward have felt like the best story for me so far. Cataclysm was rather weak with Deathwing. He could have easily killed us but the Firelands story was pretty amazing imo. Mops entire story felt well done. It created new lore and gave a good way to explore all of it.

WoD was ok. It told a good story but that story had no variations or real shockers. It explained it all in a good way, just not a lasting and memorable way.

[ryudaraku]

Yrel, it's ok. Not bad, not good. Although I like that they introduced a new Draenei hero, and I like that she's a female hero.

Yrel is garbage, her entire plot is bad fanfiction that gets a pass cause "She is a Female Hero, and WoW needs more of those" which very conveniently ignores a good many Female Heroes that already existed in Warcraft.

[Gaidax]

Actually I disagree, MoP was a very good expansion lore-wise and it stood well on it's legs, while just about every other expansion fed off legacy lore one way or another. WoD is a mixed bag here, on one hand the story played out not bad actually, but on the other hand the whole premise of time/dimension travel was a mistake in my opinion.

If anything, I'd say TBC and WoTLK were pretty shallow and poorly constructed, aside from some gems here and there. Heck I'd say TBC was outright ridiculous with it's "merely a setback" infantile story and Illidan literally thrown under the bus and being a huge waste of a character. WoTLK Lich King was also very underutilized and often reminded a cliche comic book evil character, but thankfully we had Yogg-Saron there, so I can let it slide.

[Kelthos]

I agree with several people here in that MoP is the best WoW storytelling that Blizzard has done. A shame they didn't carry over that quality into WoD, but they were so rushed trying to make a year long expansion that it just ruined everything. What I've seen from playing in Legion gives me hope that the MoP story quality is back, though. Well, mostly... *stares angrily at Illidan*

[TheMediator]

It only started getting good in MoP because Blizzard realized they could actually resolve major plot lines without having to tie them into raids. People whine and moan about Garrosh's death at the hands of Thrall, but that was actually GOOD WRITING, having him come to conflict with his former mentor, former friend, and the one who set him on his path of conquest rather than some no-name adventurer who may or may not have seen him ring a gong. Killing him off in Siege of Orgrimmar would have wasted him. That isn't to say that villains can't be killed off in raids, but it should only be done when it's appropriate for the story.

I think it's fantastic that Illidan is being brought back for instance, since his death in Black Temple was an absolute travesty done only to appease poopsock raiders and made little sense for his character in my opinion (or at the very least they should left him for dead in WC3 TFT if they didn't want to write a proper story arc for him).

I think the final act of WoD feels rushed, and there was very likely meant to be parts of the story between the crumbling of the Iron Horde and the rise of the Fel Horde in 6.2, but otherwise it seemed pretty okay to me. I would have been fine with it if it was a campaign in one of the RTS games for instance.

[Super Kami Dende]

Mists of Pandaria was the best Story writing to date in WoW.

[logintime]

People whine and moan about Garrosh's death at the hands of Thrall, but that was actually GOOD WRITING

Oh jesus. NO, no it is not. The entire cut scene was one long eye-rolling cliche. "You made me this way! Rah! No, you did this to yourself!" I mean, seriously? I've seen the exact same shitty dialogue and scenario played out in well over a dozen movies. It was a cartoonish end to a character (Garrosh) whose personality Blizzard was never able to make sense of.

[TheMediator]

Oh jesus. NO, no it is not. The entire cut scene was one long eye-rolling cliche. "You made me this way! Rah! No, you did this to yourself!" I mean, seriously? I've seen the exact same shitty dialogue and scenario played out in well over a dozen movies. It was a cartoonish end to a character (Garrosh) whose personality Blizzard was never able to make sense of.

It was the best possible way they could have salvaged that character and arc as far as I'm concerned. As far as cliché dialogue, that's sort of what Blizzard does.

[Auxora]

The lore in the books has been excellent. Unfortunately...in-game to say it's been glossed over is a major understatement. If you haven't yet, read the books from Cata forward and you'll see what I mean. Literally about 95% of the lore has been left out in-game. In fact I'd say if you haven't been keeping up on the books you really have no idea how much of the lore you've missed. It's pathetic and embarrassing how little the lore has been touched on in-game over that time.

If you haven't read the books and plan to...(modest) SPOILERS:

Garrosh, Jaina's relationships and pain of Theramore, the invasion, and the bombing of Theramore? Barely a tiny mention in a scenario in-game. Nothing of Garrosh's trial, how he escaped, who helped him escape, why Sylvanus is primed to snap... I mean...c'mon Blizz.