Migrant kills Swedish Social Worker in very bloody attack

[Deleted]

Even if 99 out of 100 were such, does it mean the other 1 out of 100 should not be let in? Perhaps it is better to improve the system in order to be able to separate 1 from other 3, than to close the system altogether? Skilled migration is one of the essential elements in the modern globalized economy.

And how do you determine if they are murderers or sexually violent people?

If the data we have, is stating that there is a higher precentage, in that determined group, there is no logical reason to make exception for that 1 person, when other groups would simply not be as bad.

That's just logical assertment.

[Dug]

If there were no immigrants, then the crime levels would be lower as crime levels amongst the native population have dropped.

Yes and that's kind of what I was trying to argue with before people went on this whole tirade about me claiming fate or some stupid shit. My thing is crime didn't necessarily increase it was just replaced with immigrants for one reason or another.

[Deleted]

Even if 99 out of 100 were such, does it mean the other 1 out of 100 should not be let in? Perhaps it is better to improve the system in order to be able to separate 1 from other 3, than to close the system altogether? Skilled migration is one of the essential elements in the modern globalized economy.

Yes, it does. There's no way to separate who the criminals are and who aren't and when the rates are so high that 1 in 4 are criminals then it's a huge risk to take them.

Labor migration and crime isn't a huge problem in Sweden. We get about 20k every year or so, and they have huge checks on them and requirements to be able to move here and will be deported pretty fast if they commit a crime. That's not the case with the refugees, whom we got like 160k last year of, because we can't "deport people to their death" and we can't check their stories properly either, we have no idea who they are.

[Kalis]

But a murder would have happened, at some point, by anyone else. I was not arguing about predetermined fates that's you and others reading too much into what I say.

You are still arguing predetermined fate.

If you have the murder from this man, that does not mean a future murder will or will not occur, they are not linked, so this is an additional murder to what you would have had if he had not been there.

[Floopa]

Even if 99 out of 100 were such, does it mean the other 1 out of 100 should not be let in? Perhaps it is better to improve the system in order to be able to separate 1 from other 3, than to close the system altogether? Skilled migration is one of the essential elements in the modern globalized economy.

yes. absolutely yes. 100 times yes.

before talking about the country taking you in "improving" to "weed out the bad seeds" how about you look at your country and focus on "improving" them first? what is this crazy idiocy? lmfao

yep. let's focus the blame on the country being kind/taking in immigrants instead of the fucking warzone that is the middle east...

[Queen of Hamsters]

Here I thought it was related to a new attack, wondering why it hadn't been reported in our local news...<.<

[Dug]

To me that means we need actual background checks and/or psychological evaluations, not just handwaving them past our borders, rather than completely shutting them out, most of these people are still coming here for the right reason...

This I'm on board with. A much more civil solution than being savages making death squads to shoot immigrants on sight.

[Synadrasa]

Holy shit that is disturbing to just look at the aftermath

As for sentence, well hopefully non determined sentence (which is essentially life in prison).

Said he will most likely be deported so funny.

[Deleted]

To me that means we need actual background checks and/or psychological evaluations, not just handwaving them past our borders, rather than completely shutting them out, most of these people are still coming here for the right reason...

It takes a shit ton to integrate them into society, and we are spending tons on them to improve their quality of life, even giving them higher privelage than the native people.

I really don't see how they are coming here "for the right reason".

If you got here, you got some kind of money to get here. And when you get here, if you get all your sanctions of free stuff, you know, and you THEN additionaly, moan when you get stuff - Then i don't see that as the "right reasons".

[Aori]

I don't have any issue with vetting an immigrant or refugee. I just take issue with people painting the entire group with one big brush because some of them commit crimes.

How can you not, they by and large come from a barbaric society. As unfortunate as it may sound, I wouldn't trust a single one. They generally don't appreciate western culture, I'm not one for chances.

[Kraenen]

I don't have any issue with vetting an immigrant or refugee. I just take issue with people painting the entire group with one big brush because some of them commit crimes.

I think you should generally have a 'tipping point' whereby a group you import has too much crime (or any other negative effect). If said group has a high rate of crime (to be decided) then it's wise to limit if not have a decline in that group's immigration. If said group has high rates of education, sociability, etc... it's wise and in a country's interest to increase that group's immigration.

The group you choose could be anything from country, ethnicity, religion, poverty, SES, etc... As long as the facts back it up. The tipping point is probably subjective in the end, although we could use statistical significance markers to help. If a group has a ten times higher crime rate, for example, it's safe to say we should exercise extra caution, have more resources devoted to screening them, or simply deny them more often, with a higher standard (high SES as a screening criteria).

[Zorial]

And how do you determine if they are murderers or sexually violent people?

If the data we have, is stating that there is a higher precentage, in that determined group, there is no logical reason to make exception for that 1 person, when other groups would simply not be as bad.

That's just logical assertment.

And it can lead to some very dark places, Racism, Nazism (towards the appropriate ethnicity) and extreme nationalism to name a few...

[Dug]

You are still arguing predetermined fate.

If you have the murder from this man, that does not mean a future murder will or will not occur, they are not linked, so this is an additional murder to what you would have had if he had not been there.

A future murder will happen just looking at statistics.. what are you talking about? I never claimed this murder "failing" or not happening doesn't mean it carries over to someone else. Just that a murder will happen because its a statistical inevitability.

[Kapadons]

Ah Sweden, you guys could give Florida a run for its money.

[Deleted]

And it can lead to some very dark places, Racism, Nazism (towards the appropriate ethnicity) and extreme nationalism to name a few...

I'm sorry, opposing the idea of giving imigrants higher privelage to our schools, free housing and excusing murder etc., does not equate to nazism, racism or "dark places" in my head.

When you are excusing Murder, crimes and what not, for the ideal of "other lives", when it could be my life or my family, i'd say that is a dark place.

When you legitimately have people, who sit in rooms that are never face to face with all the shit that such groups do ; And they openly take in more and more, while they shit away their money on Whores, corruption and local "missions" to shit that is payed by their companies, we can talk about "dark places".

That's today. That's your reality. Atm.

No f'cking holocaust, mind you, you are more restrained by the political correctness, that you would willingly defend people who have a higher % of Crimes and Murders.

You do realize this, right? I mean, you are fearmongering, before the idea of a reality that is _already shit_.

[Aori]

But a murder would have happened, at some point, by anyone else. I was not arguing about predetermined fates that's you and others reading too much into what I say.

What are you on? It sounds like you're talking about some time paradox.

[Zorial]

It takes a shit ton to integrate them into society, and we are spending tons on them to improve their quality of life, even giving them higher privelage than the native people.

I really don't see how they are coming here "for the right reason".

If you got here, you got some kind of money to get here. And when you get here, if you get all your sanctions of free stuff, you know, and you THEN additionaly, moan when you get stuff - Then i don't see that as the "right reasons".

If the situation was reversed you and i would be just as bad, if not worse, integrating isn't automatic, and actually entering our society must be very intimidating, and again, most of them are not the spoiled entitled idiots who keep whining to get arrangements for free.

[Kalis]

A future murder will happen just looking at statistics.. what are you talking about? I never claimed this murder "failing" or not happening doesn't mean it carries over to someone else. Just that a murder will happen because its a statistical inevitability.

But THIS murder would not have happened and if crime rates are going down amongst the non-immigrants then the number of murders would have been lower.

We do not want to import immigrants in order to keep our crime statistics level, we want them to go down.

[Floopa]

And it can lead to some very dark places, Racism, Nazism (towards the appropriate ethnicity) and extreme nationalism to name a few...

and here we have it. we have to accept everyone because otherwise we might be called racist.

[Dug]

What are you on? It sounds like you're talking about some time paradox.

Statistics say somebody will be murdered. I'm not talking about fate ffs lmao. Sure there's a chance nobody will be murdered from here till the end of time also but lets not fool ourselves.