Warrior Order Hall and Storytelling in Legion

[Toppy]

I feel like the "Right" order hall for warriors would have been a Garrison, but they won't touch that with a ten foot pole after WoD.

To an extent yes. A "garrison" focused on war would have been a lot better than our current garrison focused on chores. Thats one of the issues with garrisons: to much is going on making it one big generic mess.

I was hoping from the get go that we'd get a Vrykul fortress, perhaps built into a mountain. It would have been far more warrior-like and would have freely allowed us to recruit people from our own races without detracting from the Vrykul theme.

Instead we get this big paladin looking mess where we barely feel welcome.

[murbaez]

I'm not on the alpha servers but from what i read and seen, it really makes me feel as if Warriors are the new class and not Demon Hunters [in terms of lore]. It just feels like they are making stuff up as they go while at least with Demon Hunters, you at least know that they are a new class. Warriors have been around before even DK's and they have a WAY more interesting story line. I guess they realized that they haven't done anything with Warriors and decided that it was time to make an identity for them. It just so happens that they probably picked the strangest idea for it. It is ABSOLUTELY strange to me that we are now with the Vrykul's and are some lackey to this Odyn guy all of a sudden... We aren't even class leaders like they said we'd be, we are leader to some random group of Vrykul, but not class leaders.

In fact, imagine going back and chilling with the other heroes and they're all like, Hey so im the leader of my class hall and i have XXcoolheroXX following me and doing what i tell him to do. All the other Paladins follow my command. Then we're like, yeah, I died in battle, got taken to Warrior heaven, spoke to a bearded guy and now some Vrykul follow my orders. Okay sounds cool, but how are you unifying the other Warriors of Azeroth? Unify what? Nah screw those guys. Tell them to talk to Odyn, pfft

[Toppy]

I'm not on the alpha servers but from what i read and seen, it really makes me feel as if Warriors are the new class and not Demon Hunters [in terms of lore]. It just feels like they are making stuff up as they go while at least with Demon Hunters, you at least know that they are a new class. Warriors have been around before even DK's and they have a WAY more interesting story line. I guess they realized that they haven't done anything with Warriors and decided that it was time to make an identity for them. It just so happens that they probably picked the strangest idea for it. It is ABSOLUTELY strange to me that we are now with the Vrykul's and are some lackey to this Odyn guy all of a sudden... We aren't even class leaders like they said we'd be, we are leader to some random group of Vrykul, but not class leaders.

It is sad, while warriors didnt have a specific theme, they did have the most abundant lore and most names out of any class.

So they scrap all that and make us magical light vikings.

[mysticx]

I was hoping from the get go that we'd get a Vrykul fortress, perhaps built into a mountain. It would have been far more warrior-like and would have freely allowed us to recruit people from our own races without detracting from the Vrykul theme.

Instead we get this big paladin looking mess where we barely feel welcome.

I really like this idea, when i first heard the idea of a Vrykul-related warrior class hall, i was thinking more in the vein of Utgarde keep than golden shiny viking heaven, what i have seen of the warrior hall it's way too clean and shiny, warriors are pragmatic and brutal people, we don't do fancy decor, we do fancy ways to kill people! >_<

[Calith-]

I'm not on the alpha servers but from what i read and seen, it really makes me feel as if Warriors are the new class and not Demon Hunters [in terms of lore]. It just feels like they are making stuff up as they go while at least with Demon Hunters, you at least know that they are a new class. Warriors have been around before even DK's and they have a WAY more interesting story line. I guess they realized that they haven't done anything with Warriors and decided that it was time to make an identity for them. It just so happens that they probably picked the strangest idea for it. It is ABSOLUTELY strange to me that we are now with the Vrykul's and are some lackey to this Odyn guy all of a sudden... We aren't even class leaders like they said we'd be, we are leader to some random group of Vrykul, but not class leaders.

In fact, imagine going back and chilling with the other heroes and they're all like, Hey so im the leader of my class hall and i have XXcoolheroXX following me and doing what i tell him to do. All the other Paladins follow my command. Then we're like, yeah, I died in battle, got taken to Warrior heaven, spoke to a bearded guy and now some Vrykul follow my orders. Okay sounds cool, but how are you unifying the other Warriors of Azeroth? Unify what? Nah screw those guys. Tell them to talk to Odyn, pfft

The problem is that they still haven't made any Warrior identity, you are one Warrior isolated from your class, what we do in the Hall or in the campaign has no connections to or impact on our class as a whole whatsoever. The Warrior story starts and ends with Trollbane and Saurfang going back to the Broken Shore.

You're just an observer to the story about Odyn and it feels totally unnecessary for you to be there at all.

[Archimtiros]

The problem is that they still haven't made any Warrior identity, you are one Warrior isolated from your class, what we do in the Hall or in the campaign has no connections to or impact on our class as a whole whatsoever. The Warrior story starts and ends with Trollbane and Saurfang going back to the Broken Shore.

You're just an observer to the story about Odyn and it feels totally unnecessary for you to be there at all.

That's why I called it a glorified quest hub. You're just another random passerby helping the hapless.

[Levifer]

Archimtiros, thank you very much for your effort in pointing out all the stuff about that really disappointing Warrior Story and Order Hall.
I could not have done it better.

I have mained my Warrior since TBC. It was my first character ever created and since then I had a really strong bond with that char.
I did all the stuff with him... from Achievements, PvP/Arena, (Hardcore) Progress Raiding... everything was done with my Warrior.

When I first saw the released pictures of the Order Halls I already had a strange feeling about it... golden halls? An arena in where I could fight other Warriors? Pretty underwhelming stuff in relation to other Halls.

Then I got my Alpha invite. Needless to say that I created an Image of my Tauren Warrior in an instant.
But it just didn't feel right... I came to the point where I was fighting with some Vrykul against an obviously pretty badass demon who just wrecked all of us (those weak Vrykul, I was tanking that beast for them and they couldn't bring it down!). Then: Valkyr and Valhalla.

I dunno... all the stuff in these Halls of Valor looked pretty unrelated to Warriors at all. It was way too bright and shiny. And above in the skies? Why the hell?
Also, I have never had any connection to some Norse Gods or Vrykul... oh wait, I had - I was slaying them in WotLK?!
Don't get me wrong, I like the Norse Mythology and I think it is interesting. However, NOT in World of Warcraft with such a strong link to MY Warrior!
This is nothing I can overlook. There could have been a far better story for us Warriors with way more interesting lore characters.

What happened? Did Blizzard think "Oh yeah... Warriors... no one wants or plays them anyway, we made them pretty boring in playstyle, so it wouldn't matter if we screw their lore up anyway"?
Which brings me to another point... tanking as a Warrior in Legion? Extremely lackluster, but this is another topic.

This all being said... after playing my Warrior as a main character for 9 years with A TON of playtime, lots of different activities done with him and despite my LOVE for the class... I just can't stand to play Warrior in Legion anymore. So yeah, I will either quit playing or reroll to something more appealing.

I believe that the "Warrior faction" who agrees to all the points listed by Archimtiros and maybe even more is not a minority - at least I hope so.
That is why I don't understand why there is no reaction or response from any blues (or maybe I missed it?).


Take care.


EDIT: I wish I could have posted my response on the official forums aswell, however I do not have a character on the US realms, therefore I am not allowed to.

[Murlocbait]

EDIT: I wish I could have posted my response on the official forums aswell, however I do not have a character on the US realms, therefore I am not allowed to.

My understanding is you can make a level 1 character on US realm and that will give you forum access - even alpha. So go be heard!

[Levifer]

My understanding is you can make a level 1 character on US realm and that will give you forum access - even alpha. So go be heard!

Yes, thank you. I am going to do that now.

Wasn't able to log in because I was at work earlier.

[Murlocbait]

Yes, thank you. I am going to do that now.

Wasn't able to log in because I was at work earlier.

No problem - as someone not in alpha, i figure the more voices the better.

[Levifer]

Didn't work out as planned... somehow I can't post there, despite the fact that I made a US char now.

Nevermind... maybe someone is kind enough to just quote my post into the topic.
As you said, the more voices the better!

[Deleted]

Which doesn't really change the fact that we're told we're allowed in because we're a special case, but then every other player in the game is also allowed in as well.

Oh I agree completely, I agree on all your points in this thread. I was always optimistic our class hall was the least finished, sort of a canvas the new Warrior painting was supposed to be drawn on.

I like the "Holy" theme because it's titanic, I like being "THE" warrior faction, sitting on high as demigods of battle, ready to lay waste the the legion like a living thunderbolt. Sure it seems very Paladinish to be sort of religious, but I see it as the Heathen representations of Valhalla or Olympus than of heaven.

The Problem is, Blizzard have not shown this well. People are confused because Val'kyr attendants and golden Vrykul are the norm, not the seperation. The Val'kyr are there as our attendants and we should be building an army.

But the quests show all we do is find titanic sources for this army and it doesn't BUILD from there.

[Archimtiros]

Oh I agree completely, I agree on all your points in this thread. I was always optimistic our class hall was the least finished, sort of a canvas the new Warrior painting was supposed to be drawn on.

I like the "Holy" theme because it's titanic, I like being "THE" warrior faction, sitting on high as demigods of battle, ready to lay waste the the legion like a living thunderbolt. Sure it seems very Paladinish to be sort of religious, but I see it as the Heathen representations of Valhalla or Olympus than of heaven.

The Problem is, Blizzard have not shown this well. People are confused because Val'kyr attendants and golden Vrykul are the norm, not the seperation. The Val'kyr are there as our attendants and we should be building an army.

But the quests show all we do is find titanic sources for this army and it doesn't BUILD from there.

I'd be perfectly fine with all of it, if they simply integrated the player factions and made it about Warriors and Vrykul, rather than just Vrykul. The problem is that it feels like just another random faction we encounter in the world which needs our help; there's very little to support that we actually get anything out of this arrangement.

See my example alternate introduction on the first plage:

• Follow Saurfang/Trollbane to Broken Shore.
• Join group of Ally/Horde Warriors fighting Demons.
• Lose badly.
• Vrykul show up and help us.
• Join Vrykul in pressing attack, while faction allies evacuate wounded and retreat.
• Fall in battle with Vrykul in order to save allies, impress Odyn with sacrifice, and go to Halls of Valor.

The key difference here is that this makes the Vrykul/Valarjar feel like a faction that would support us as much as we support them. It fosters an idea of "ok, they can't leave Valhalla, but we can go there and learn some shit from them", which I feel is how the faction should play out, the idea being that they're all preparing for some great battles.

Unfortunately, we get there and they're all just standing around hanging out. This makes the Order Hall feel like a glorified inn, a rest stop, or more appropriately a retirement home. Every other Order Hall has NPCs doing research, testing spells, sparring, or otherwise actually doing something productive to prepare to fight the Legion. We have a dinky little arena with no NPC interaction. Hell even the Hunter Hall has some NPCs throwing fists at each other! We should have Vrykul smiths banging out suits of armor and magical weapons, Vrykul teaching player race Warriors new forms of combat, and Vrykul champions sparring with one another rather than a dinky mead hall.

Blizzard took the idea of Valhalla because it's easy and popular in common culture. That alone annoys me (write your own damn fantasy), but I can live with it. The problem is they just took the idea and didn't mold it to fit the going-ons of WoW; instead of preparing to fight the Legion, they're playing drinking games... which sounds like a lot of fun, but has dick all to do with the narrative. This turns what should be a cool concept into a major let down.

[Deleted]

Well if you look at it mythodolically, Valhalla always was a place for warriors i.e. Vikings. Problem is that that warriors, same as rogues always had this unmagical feeling and now are seated with the gods at the same table so to speak.

[bladeXcrasher]

Well if you look at it mythodolically, Valhalla always was a place for warriors i.e. Vikings. Problem is that that warriors, same as rogues always had this unmagical feeling and now are seated with the gods at the same table so to speak.

Except in the world of warcraft warriors weren't ever associated with any afterlife.

[MORGATH99]

the order hall looks more like a paladin bath house and a warriors playground

[Toppy]

Well if you look at it mythodolically, Valhalla always was a place for warriors i.e. Vikings. Problem is that that warriors, same as rogues always had this unmagical feeling and now are seated with the gods at the same table so to speak.

In this afterlife, only vrykul warriors are allowed.

Thus the whole idea doesnt work.

[Katie45]

Well if you look at it mythodolically, Valhalla always was a place for warriors i.e. Vikings. Problem is that that warriors, same as rogues always had this unmagical feeling and now are seated with the gods at the same table so to speak.

So not true, I never read any of that lore for Night elves, blood elfs, draenei, even human warriors never had that.

[caervek]

Didn't work out as planned... somehow I can't post there, despite the fact that I made a US char now.

Takes a couple of hours for everything to flag.

- - - Updated - - -

Then we're like, yeah, I died in battle, got taken to Warrior heaven, spoke to a bearded guy and now some Vrykul follow my orders.

We don't actually die it just looks like we do because the quest isn't very polished, the Vrykul die and get taken to their heaven but Odyn sees our valor and has the Val'kyr snatch us up before we are killed, we are then taken to Vrykul heaven to meet with Odyn.

[cakebeef]

Is there some way we can voice our concerns to blizzard. Feels like we can't reach em. If we show that allot of people feel the same way they can't ignore us.