[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[CenariusTheForestLord]

I mean, Lunar Beam best for damage done over Rend and Tear in some circumstances; Rend and Tear best for damage done in other circumstances; Pulverize best for pure survivability?

Pulv wins on long fights. R&T wins on short fights. Beam for AOE dps then?

[Dreyen]

I mean, Lunar Beam best for damage done over Rend and Tear in some circumstances; Rend and Tear best for damage done in other circumstances; Pulverize best for pure survivability?

Pulv wins... by 2% DR: not worth a huge dps loss

Pulv or R&T needs to change, they are too similar to be on the same talent row.

[v1perz53]

Pulv wins... by 2% DR: not worth a huge dps loss

Pulv or R&T needs to change, they are too similar to be on the same talent row.

It is a weird design, they are exact antagonists so they need to be on the same talent row, but currently they are too similar. One is a benefit for keeping Thrash x3 up at all times, one gives a benefit by sacrificing 2x Thrash stacks, but currently they give basically the same benefit accomplished by different means. I have a feeling they'll turn R&T into something like Into the Fray for prot war or Last Defender for prot pal, something like "each stack of Thrash on a nearby enemy reduces damage taken and increases damage done by 1%, diminishing returns", to have the flavor of R&T for AoE, Pulv for ST. Though that would be boring and samey, but I don't see things staying as is.

Kinda sad about these changes, I've always been a huge proponent of Pulverize in any form, though I do really miss the Cata version that was a DPS and survivability buff, but I also thought Lunar Beam was pretty cool and I always like having a ~90 sec CD heal, adding damage utility to it was just icing on the cake. So it will kind of suck having to chose between these (especially when R&T might end up being better than both while being the most boring one...) I guess it improves T1 slightly, in that everything in the tier is equally uninspiring.

[Ausr]

No, my disco bear dreams are ruined!

[zurm]

I mean, Lunar Beam best for damage done over Rend and Tear in some circumstances; Rend and Tear best for damage done in other circumstances; Pulverize best for pure survivability?

I thought they said all the talent swaps were "temporary" (they didn't mean to push them to a live build, they've already been reverted internally). At least that's what the referenced tweet on the frontpage implies.

[xskarma]

I thought they said all the talent swaps were "temporary" (they didn't mean to push them to a live build, they've already been reverted internally). At least that's what the referenced tweet on the frontpage implies.

I think he meant that specifically about the DK talents, not the others.

[ikewu83]

I like current changes, since it will have more smooth gameplay since pulv is not mandtory, even though I really like the past 15% DR from pulv.
Thrash/Swipe/Mangle/Moomfire combo is enough

[Nevcairiel]

I like current changes, since it will have more smooth gameplay since pulv is not mandtory, even though I really like the past 15% DR from pulv.
Thrash/Swipe/Mangle/Moomfire combo is enough

Pulv got nerfed to 8% before this change, but I agree, I didn't really need pulv in my rotation, it feels a bit clunky (even more so as the application of the dot is on a CD now, unlike live). Lunar Beam as a heal/aoe for 5mans and solo/leveling, and R&T for raiding, I figure.

More concerned about the 15 row, I like the overall idea of brambles, but not sure its really a good thing to take right now.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Pulv wins... by 2% DR: not worth a huge dps loss

Pulv or R&T needs to change, they are too similar to be on the same talent row.

No I meant compared to beam. Not R&T I completely agree that R&T and pulv are too similar. By no means did I mean pulv wins from R&T. Srry if it came over that way.

- - - Updated - - -

Pulv got nerfed to 8% before this change, but I agree, I didn't really need pulv in my rotation, it feels a bit clunky (even more so as the application of the dot is on a CD now, unlike live). Lunar Beam as a heal/aoe for 5mans and solo/leveling, and R&T for raiding, I figure.

More concerned about the 15 row, I like the overall idea of brambles, but not sure its really a good thing to take right now.

Isn't brambles the go to talent though? I hate the idea of BF now. And the rage gen from thrash is ok, but rage gen isn't that good overall I think. Because FR is on such a lengthy cooldown and Ironfur isn't needed as much.

[Invictorum]

Did anyone else notice that the level 10 pvp talent "Rabid Thrashing" does the exact same thing as the "Bloody Paws" Artifact ability?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Did anyone else notice that the level 10 pvp talent "Rabid Thrashing" does the exact same thing as the "Bloody Paws" Artifact ability?

I think bloody paws is gone from the artifact. The equip effect is now Rage of the Sleeper. Not sure about this though. MMO-C still says it's there, but I saw Finalbosstv doing guardian stuff and he wasn't getting more than the thrash bleed on dummies.

[huth]

I think bloody paws is gone from the artifact. The equip effect is now Rage of the Sleeper. Not sure about this though. MMO-C still says it's there, but I saw Finalbosstv doing guardian stuff and he wasn't getting more than the thrash bleed on dummies.

All artifacts now have their initial trait as their only equip effect. For some reason, WoWDB still reports the long since removed old ones. They don't show up on WoWhead at all.(I.e. the spells don't exist anymore)

[CenariusTheForestLord]

All artifacts now have their initial trait as their only equip effect. For some reason, WoWDB still reports the long since removed old ones. They don't show up on WoWhead at all.(I.e. the spells don't exist anymore)

Also the reason why having +5% bleed damage on artifact is weird. Just make it +5% on thrash, all our other bleeds are gone (we had 3 in alpha)

[Rivin]

Also the reason why having +5% bleed damage on artifact is weird. Just make it +5% on thrash, all our other bleeds are gone (we had 3 in alpha)

They did change Jagged Claws to say Thrash instead of bleeds, if that's the one you meant.

And Bloody Paws is still on there according to Wowhead, between Jagged Claws and Perpetual Spring.

[ikewu83]

I still hope we can blink by staying the bear form

[CenariusTheForestLord]

They did change Jagged Claws to say Thrash instead of bleeds, if that's the one you meant.

And Bloody Paws is still on there according to Wowhead, between Jagged Claws and Perpetual Spring.

The bloody paws he means is the stacking bleed that reduced damage taken by 2% per stack for 15s on every damage ability.

Aha I missed the jagged claws change. Makes sense.

[Dreyen]

I still hope we can blink by staying the bear form

Nope we can't. You can thank the hordes of guardians who said "it fine that we go catform its still useful"

[Lysozyme]

It is fine it's just not nearly as good as it would be if you could remain in bear form

[Nevcairiel]

I generally pick charge over it because of the silly form change, which drives me nuts.

[Rivin]

The bloody paws he means is the stacking bleed that reduced damage taken by 2% per stack for 15s on every damage ability.

Aha I missed the jagged claws change. Makes sense.

The person who brought up Bloody Paws was talking about how it (50% speed reduction on targets affected by Thrash) is redundant with Rabid Thrashing (Thrash applies Infected Wounds). They do exactly the same thing.