Arms Legion Discussion

[Recke]

Just hope that well fed food will be good enough for pandaren to shine. I'm probably going nightelf as I only raid at nights, fuck gnomes.

Wouldn't Human be really strong, since it's additional (as far as I saw, I could be mistaken) bonus values to everything. At 50% of 1 stat, it should be an additional 1% (so, with dungeon blues getting us to just under 40%, it would be close to 1% of our stat) alongside benefits to the various other stats? I figured we'd be getting more from the human racial than others due to our starting stats (and probably our stats going further into the expac).

[Archimtiros]

Wouldn't Human be really strong, since it's additional (as far as I saw, I could be mistaken) bonus values to everything. At 50% of 1 stat, it should be an additional 1% (so, with dungeon blues getting us to just under 40%, it would be close to 1% of our stat) alongside benefits to the various other stats? I figured we'd be getting more from the human racial than others due to our starting stats (and probably our stats going further into the expac).

To gain a full 1% Crit stat you'd actually need 55%, since you carry a 5% base value.

For those who don't understand how the racial works, it's an extra 2% of secondary stat rating (although they no longer call it that due to "simplification") from all sources. Because this deals specifically with stat rating, it doesn't include flat percentage based buffs. I believe the Crit rating conversion at L110 is 250 per 1%, which would mean 8,750 rating to reach 40% Crit naturally.

2% of that is 175, or an extra 0.70% chance to crit. Technically the value would be a bit lower, as we would be rounding down each component piece rather than the sum of the whole, but it's close enough for this example. Other conversions are as follows:

• 416 per 1% Mastery
• 227 per 1% Haste
• 250 per 1% Crit
• 295 per 1% Versatility
• 416 per 1% Mastery

Keeping in mind that getting one stat to 40%+ early on is going to leave your other stats pretty low, it's important to recognize that the racial won't provide the same absolute amount to every stat. In general, the Human racial is going to be best for classes that want every stat in more or less equal amounts, while specs that heavily prioritize one stat over another are going to want more specialized bonuses.

That said, I'm expecting racial balance to be very similar to WoD - that is to say that it's going to be inconsequential. If you really want to quantify the "best" racial bonus, you should be looking at their utility benefits, as those tend to have a much bigger impact on the fights they affect.

[Deleted]

• 416 per 1% Mastery
• 227 per 1% Haste
• 250 per 1% Crit
• 295 per 1% Versatility
• 416 per 1% Mastery

Those values are incorrect.

• 350 per 1% Crit
• 325 per 1% haste
• 400 per 1% versatility
• mastery I can´t check since I dont have a lvl 110 warrior atm

[Archimtiros]

Those values are incorrect.

• 350 per 1% Crit
• 325 per 1% haste
• 400 per 1% versatility
• mastery I can´t check since I dont have a lvl 110 warrior atm

Huh, I wonder these numbers came from then! I've not been on today, I just pulled these values from another forum post.

[Khelon]

Those values are incorrect.

• 350 per 1% Crit
• 325 per 1% haste
• 400 per 1% versatility
• mastery I can´t check since I dont have a lvl 110 warrior atm

250 For fury & 175 for arms.

Obviously our mastery isnt going to be up 100%, but if we can achieve that, pandaren looks like one of the best racials you can have in legion. This is assuming the food is good and I think its going to land on the same amount as 1% from versatility just like WoD 125 food did (so the racial will act as nearly 3% mastery).

[Archimtiros]

250 For fury & 175 for arms.

Obviously our mastery isnt going to be up 100%, but if we can achieve that, pandaren looks like one of the best racials you can have in legion. This is assuming the food is good and I think its going to land on the same amount as 1% from versatility just like WoD 125 food did (so the racial will act as nearly 3% mastery).

The WoD racials added an insignificant amount of DPS, a far cry from what MoP brought. I suspect Legion is going to end up being tuned the same.

[Flaks]

I realize it's never going to happen but I'd love for that first talent tier to be made into a rage management tier. OP could give 10 rage instead of costing it. Rend could be put there in it's WoD taste for blood form and then dauntless could stay there as the passive alternative.

And to really differentiate the specs again, I'd love for them to completely remove shockwave and stormbolt from the arms and fury kit, give charge baseline stun back and then build arms and fury around charge and heroic leap respectively.

I realize archi and artunias are warrior gurus but please don't advocate losing our current damage for increased chance to proc tactician. We all know that would mean we would be utterly useless outside of csmash.

[Beefkow]

charge stun

The one ultimate thing that determines whether a warrior is pro or not (well, sorta) and it is one of our only counters to casters.

[Recke]

To gain a full 1% Crit stat you'd actually need 55%, since you carry a 5% base value.

For those who don't understand how the racial works, it's an extra 2% of secondary stat rating.

Yeah, but does it not apply to ALL stats of the player or is it only the top 1 stat, because it was my understanding it was 2% of all secondary stats, which adds up over the 4 stats.
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/20598-the-human-spirit

Assume something like .75% crit (using a smaller than the one provided) and say .25% haste, this is already 1% bonus secondary stats over say, Worgen and Night Elf. And then we have Versatility and Mastery to further skew things.

[Celarent]

And to really differentiate the specs again, I'd love for them to completely remove shockwave and stormbolt from the arms and fury kit, give charge baseline stun back and then build arms and fury around charge and heroic leap respectively.

Yes. And toss that bandaid on the Shockwave cooldown, which is nothing more than Blizzard trying to half-reconcile an iffy idea. I miss pre-Mists, when you saw a guy playing Prot entirely for the control.

[Artunias]

I realize archi and artunias are warrior gurus but please don't advocate losing our current damage for increased chance to proc tactician. We all know that would mean we would be utterly useless outside of csmash.

The spec is useless outside of colossus smash at the current rate lol. That's one of the main reasons people are begging for a better proc rate.

[Archimtiros]

Yeah, but does it not apply to ALL stats of the player or is it only the top 1 stat, because it was my understanding it was 2% of all secondary stats, which adds up over the 4 stats.
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/20598-the-human-spirit

Assume something like .75% crit (using a smaller than the one provided) and say .25% haste, this is already 1% bonus secondary stats over say, Worgen and Night Elf. And then we have Versatility and Mastery to further skew things.

Reread the second to last paragraph.

Keeping in mind that getting one stat to 40%+ early on is going to leave your other stats pretty low, it's important to recognize that the racial won't provide the same absolute amount to every stat. In general, the Human racial is going to be best for classes that want every stat in more or less equal amounts, while specs that heavily prioritize one stat over another are going to want more specialized bonuses.

As stated, yes, you may end up with a total of 1% or even higher in pure stats, but unless you actually value all of those stats, it's easy for it to work out to being worth less than a flat 1% to the stat you actually want the most.

[Deleted]

I realize it's never going to happen but I'd love for that first talent tier to be made into a rage management tier. OP could give 10 rage instead of costing it. Rend could be put there in it's WoD taste for blood form and then dauntless could stay there as the passive alternative.

Indeed, themed tiers make a lot of sense but there are people would disagree of having all talent tiers "themed". I strongly disagree with turning OP to rage generator because it is already damage per rage spent efficient to my knowledge and moreover we need OP to hit somewhat hard in Pee Vee Pee. You know that if they turn it into a rage generator the latter won't be the case. There are an interesting suggestion thrown to let OP charge twice which sounds good and one would support.

The Warrior first tier seems solid and provides variety in the game play with interesting talent choices. Let's not touch it for the moment

As for Rend you are right, it lacks a bit of flavor. It would be cool if something cool happens or is about to happen when we press Rend.

And to really differentiate the specs again, I'd love for them to completely remove shockwave and stormbolt from the arms and fury kit, give charge baseline stun back and then build arms and fury around charge and heroic leap respectively.

Thumbs up! This is a very good line of thought. To a certain extent Arms is already tied to Charge (Intercept and Shadow of Colossus) and Fury to Leap (Barbarian) but it could be further streamlined. For example:

Intercept should also stun the enemy target in order to be competitive on the fifth tier. How would pick the current Safeguard shit over Shadow of Colossus and Pain Train?
Let only Arms be able to talent in Double Time and Fury only in Barbarian (where Fury Double Time is now). Warpath from Protection goes to Fury PvP where Barbarian is now.
Swap the corresponding artifact traits so Tactical Advance is tied to Charge and Uncontrolled Rage is tied to Leap.
While the designers are on it they should make sure that Heroic Leap works uphill in instances if it is not the case. How much more should we wait?

You are right, the lack of streamlined differentiable design is a bit disappointing. Talents and artifacts traits all over the place without a second thought. They should clean this mess!

[Flaks]

The spec is useless outside of colossus smash at the current rate lol. That's one of the main reasons people are begging for a better proc rate.

But at least don't do it at the expense of even less damage outside of csmash. I saw a post about it on the official forum beta class thread. You guys have done an absolutely shit ton of phenomenal work on feedback and it really pisses me off that nothing's been done about it but I'm afraid Blizzard will up and listen to his one idea and say "we listen to all feedback and respond!".

[GemaRawr]

But at least don't do it at the expense of even less damage outside of csmash. I saw a post about it on the official forum beta class thread. You guys have done an absolutely shit ton of phenomenal work on feedback and it really pisses me off that nothing's been done about it but I'm afraid Blizzard will up and listen to his one idea and say "we listen to all feedback and respond!".

A lot of the posts I see are advocating less damage inside the CS window as a trade for higher procrate.

[Beefkow]

But at least don't do it at the expense of even less damage outside of csmash. I saw a post about it on the official forum beta class thread. You guys have done an absolutely shit ton of phenomenal work on feedback and it really pisses me off that nothing's been done about it but I'm afraid Blizzard will up and listen to his one idea and say "we listen to all feedback and respond!".

One of the blues did post a while back (1-2 months ago) that they do indeed listen to feedback. However..... they find warriors enjoyable to play..? Really boggles my mind.

Basically, class developers are selfish and do what's best for us while we as the players put up legitimate points. I would've liked to see an answer from blizzard going in depth on why they find arms warriors so enjoyable to play rather than a "we like arms warriors atm" kind of response.

[Katie45]

You guys are just babys, if this was 3 weeks ago I might have agreed with the no changes, but they been fix arms steadily every build. they fixed so much specially for pvp

[bladeXcrasher]

You guys are just babys, if this was 3 weeks ago I might have agreed with the no changes, but they been fix arms steadily every build. they fixed so much specially for pvp

Has the CS bug been fixed yet?

[Vojka]

Well got my hands on beta, will be playing arms pvp tonight and seeing how it goes. Looking forward to it tbh.

[Murlocbait]

Well got my hands on beta, will be playing arms pvp tonight and seeing how it goes. Looking forward to it tbh.

Hope you have a healer.