Are you satisfied with the current iteration of Ret in the Legion beta?

[Ashelorh]

Are you satisfied with the current iteration of Ret in the Legion beta?

[Wrecktangle]

I voted no - but I'd like to preface it with the notion that there are a handful of things I like about Ret. However 2/3's of what I like is animation related and not mechanic/tuning related, so yeah...

I'll also throw in that I didn't actually like WoD ret either mechanically, but it was fun to play. I know that's an odd distinction, but I'll put it in car terms. I don't like the Mazda Miata, but they are undoubtedly a blast to drive.

[Snegovik]

I put No, because i do not play Spec for it looks, i play for the gameplay itself, does not matter if u polish turd to be shinny it is still a turd. Hence, blizzard can take away the animation and ashbringer and give Ret the tools to be an alpha dog in PvP for once since Wrath.

[Yardu]

My guildies in my casual guild have decided we're done with wow. Not from being butthurt or whatever. But just since we don't have the time/feel like having to relearn our specs being one common reason. Mine is that WoD burnt me out. From how toxic the community has grown over the 6 years I've played to just not feeling like grinding/playing mmo's anymore. Just don't feel like it anymore. Since I've mained a ret for 6 years though, if I had to continue playing I wouldn't play ret. I'd play prot. Ret just seems like it isn't rewarding in playstyle and for a while it hasn't really been. Feel free to disagree but that's just my opinion on it and my taste.

[Deleted]

It is undeniable that Legion is a step back for Retribution. Less damage dealing options, new constraints in dealing that damage and a fairly repetitive and uneventful rotation. It is quite honestly an appauling job Blizzard did with it.
Gone are strategic options and cooldowns for burst in different types of situations, in is the low mobility and unviability for quickly changing to priority targets and questionable AoE scaling and flat rotation. Some talent choices may alleviate some problems, haste may aleviate some problems, but the constraints are there and will not go away without mechanical changes.

Alas, it's back to the days of "we will fix it next expansion".

[Snegovik]

Alas, it's back to the days of "we will fix it next expansion".

Unfortunately, i think it will always be like this "the next expansion" which will never come.

[Msshammy]

Not a fan at all.. Don't get me wrong there are things I like, but they are few and far between. Do I "love" WoD's ret.. not really, but I agree with Wrecktangle that it was really fun to play. Right now though it's so bland. AoE is shit (I hear it is for most classes as well), Gap closers and movement... LOL yeah right. Poor talent choices. It really doesn't seem like there is much of an actual choice. Even with the choices you do have, unless you read them very carefully and know your spec in and out they may appear identical to you. Casual players and players in general that don't spend a ton of time setting up their spec may not see a difference in some of the talents.

TV doesn't hit for crap.. (I know.. it's beta) Having to use spenders during that minimal Judgement buff is just weird. Divine Purpose was never really consistent, but it feels even worse now! Did anyone mention movement speed? lol..

It's going to sound nitpicky and possibly dumb to most people.. But I HATE the new Judgement animation! With the way tagging works now it's not a HUGE deal, but it can still be annoying that it's not an instant hit, rather just instant cast.

I miss Hammer of Wrath

[Schattenlied]

I voted no, but my actual feeling is "fuck this bullshit"... This new judgment, mastery, and complete and utter lack of mobility need to go die in a fire, a very hot chemical fire.

[Streamx]

I voted yes. Granted, I haven't actually played in alpha or beta. I do have mixed feelings about some changes but on a general level I feel good about the future of ret as my main. I do have to note that I'm not a hardcore raider or pvp'er so I kind of also get the negative feedback. Looking forward to playing it though.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, i think it will always be like this "the next expansion" which will never come.

I do think that Wrath and WoD Ret were pretty decent. I understood why they redesigned it after wrath and why that was a problem, but the WoD iteration wasn't OP and i can't for the life of me understand why they would just get rid of it like that. It was a fun and balanced spec that could still be improved. The legion redesign had no motivator aside from change for the sake of change.

[Deleted]

Voted no.

Hated WoD Ret, put up with MoP Ret, was disillusioned but hopeful about Cata Ret, loved Wrath Ret, learned to love TBC Ret. In TBC, it was a blank slate I could project my own imagination on to. Wrath made the spec an actual proper DPS spec, which I loved. However since Cata, it's evolved further and further away from that original coolness I had in my head to the point that I dropped it as my main spec for WoD and can't see myself going back.

Legion looks like it's an improvement to WoD to me, but it's not enough. It's a shame, I yearn for the old days. But Ret's dead to me.

[Deleted]

No. Legion Ret is a mess. Several steps back on the progress we've made over the years to finally catch up to the other classes.

[Deleted]

/start rant
I dont understand why people say WoD was fun. It was badly designed and needed itemization through haste, trinkets and set bonuses to be at least viable.
Talents were terrible, had no procs (other than AoW but it was tied to ability dead last on priority list you were trying to avoid to use, so useless). Guess everyone still lingers on stuff later in expansion, with tier sets and everything. Something other classes never need to be fun and viable.

Only reactions and change you had to make while playing were due to DP and FV talents (the reason why i cant understand anyone willingly going for other talents... as being forced to go due to numbers is understandable, but they were bad for gameplay). AoE was terrible and also tied to same talents in addition to needing lots of ramping up and others already nuked the adds by that time etc.

Didnt feel "paladiny" at all with 1 weapon swing ability and rest spells and ranged crap with hand waving and conjuring hammers from thin air(extremely silly for a paladin).

Even tho it seemed hard to grasp at the time about it being possible, but in Legion its several times worse. Well, except the fact that now you actually use your weapon more and are more melee oriented finally, but everything else is strictly worse.

Baseline 3 button "rotation" with no procs or any synergy or interaction at all. Stuff that just does damage on different CDs, no additional effects at all.

AoE has silly ramp-up and only non finishers are terrible (greater judgement and flying hammers...). So other than ashes, you have no instant AoE and that has 30s CD. If you spec for AoE you lose a lot on ST for ret and you are still sub-par at it. Meaning that if AoE is very needed, its better you dont even bring ret, but go for warrior or something, as they have on demand quick AoE and dont lose much ST to do so.

Judgement window working only on finishers, having short updite, us having crap ability to pool (only 1.66 finishers can be pooled and using rest during window is kinda waste, unlike colossus smash that is useful for all and they can use whatever they have during window to benefit from it in addition to it lasting more and have no need to actually NOT use anything as you wait on it because then you waste your only resources generation(hp builders)/bonus you get from it(finishers) outside of it) and us being CD class has terrible interaction.

Talents being terrible, making no difference in the way you play, having 0 need of using your brain and make decisions (As everything is already limited by CD and judgement window). Only thing that ever happens in fight that makes you react is if you take DP talent. JV being useless unless mobs are stunnable AND you take DP too. Something in dungeons and raids that is not going to happen much, on top of it not doing enough damage for it to be strictly better than using TV for DP proc. If JV alternative talents werent so terrible, it would probably be better to just use TV for DP proc and take some other talent.

That is all without actually touching the mobility issue, as everyone should clearly understand why its such a bad thing, even more coupled with judgement window mechanics.

Then we get to artifact... traits are bloody terrible (outside of 2 ashes ones). Flat 10% damage boost to TV and DS and 20% flat damage boost to DS while also making it more inconvenient to use (due to making sure you dont face another pack of mobs, not to pull them accidently) and lack of ranged builders that will let you build + DS while being forced to stay out of range due to some boss mechanic, so why even have it?

Only thing creating anything interesting in the spec is DP... and that is a talent.
Unless you want to wait on Judgement all the time you need to take ES(since aoe is pretty terrible, might as well take that). Then you take TFoJ for the same reason, as only thing that we MIGHT be viable for is ST tunnel fights so ES and TFoJ is probably only option for dungeon/raid play. Then you have no choice at all, as you need to pick from one terrible and useless thing (hammer) and 2 of the same with same CD, generation and pretty much same damage. Then we have one barely useful (JV) and 2 useless (well, heal might be useful in one strange niche fight that happens once every couple of expansions), then steed as only mobility and DP as only thing that will ever happen in your gameplay, so you have to pick that unless you want to turn into robot and playing automatically.

All in all... its terrible, worst ever, catastrophy. There are some rets that think its "almost there" and "close"... but when it goes live and serious raiding/mythic+ dungeoning starts... they will see the light (pun intended)... same as in WoD when during alpha/beta they were very satisfied with ret and thought only numbers needed tweaking and called me crazy and stupid for saying that we needed whole overhaul because we are batshit terrible unless fixed by itemization and even then we are limited in options for different style of fights. But it was all fine for them as we were "mid of the pack" on simulations. But come reality and real fights... oops, ret terrible.

But i still dont think it will get better at all. I mean, some even think its better to even remove some active options and make it more passive and slower. And lots agree with them. So i think ret is not for the sane, fun loving people at all now

Run for the hills! Warriors and DKs await!
/end rant

That was supposed to go to ret thread, but i gave up after seeing some posts there by "prominent" people.

[Wrecktangle]

I dont understand why people say WoD was fun. It was badly designed and needed itemization through haste, trinkets and set bonuses to be at least viable.

Fun and viable are not directly correlated so your argument here isn't terribly compelling. Your statement that it was badly designed and needed itemization is correct, but bears very little impact on the overall fun derived from its gameplay.

Talents were terrible, had no procs (other than AoW but it was tied to ability dead last on priority list you were trying to avoid to use, so useless). Guess everyone still lingers on stuff later in expansion, with tier sets and everything. Something other classes never need to be fun and viable.

Talents terrible in WoD? Sure they weren't terribly exciting, but they weren't terrible. The first tier had 3 excellent, viable, and I happened to really enjoy the playstyle that LAotL provided.

SS or SH was a nice distinction, so not terrible there.

Clemency vs. Unbreakable Spirit was another excellent tier, while HoPurity was mediocre.

HA vs. DP vs. SW was a phenomenal tier. You had 3 viable, effective and rotational altering talents. Yeah that's terrible.

LH vs. ES was pretty mediocre and bland, but useful/viable sure.

FV was a very fun talent to use, because it amplified DS (which is my favorite ability and others I'm sure). The range increase was also very fun to have and use. Seraphim was a playstyle change that was viable and fun for some (not for me personally).

I happen to like how our tier sets dramatically alter gameplay, but that said I agree that Ret definitely appears to rely on them far more than other specs.

AoW, DP, EDS. I think you missed on the # of procs. We were incredibly proc heavy...

Only reactions and change you had to make while playing were due to DP and FV talents (the reason why i cant understand anyone willingly going for other talents... as being forced to go due to numbers is understandable, but they were bad for gameplay). AoE was terrible and also tied to same talents in addition to needing lots of ramping up and others already nuked the adds by that time etc.

Agreed, our lack of on demand no nonsense AOE was significantly lacking.

Didnt feel "paladiny" at all with 1 weapon swing ability and rest spells and ranged crap with hand waving and conjuring hammers from thin air(extremely silly for a paladin).

What EXACTLY do you considering "paladiny". Please for everyone here define this in depth. If you want to play a spec that uses weapon swings and melee, why are you playing a Paladin? Paladin's use holy magic to smite their foes and mix that with physical attacks. I think we're more Paladiny than ever, but we're just mechanically terrible.

When I think of a Ret Paladin, I can associate it with Agrias or Orlandu from FFT.

All in all... its terrible, worst ever, catastrophy. There are some rets that think its "almost there" and "close"... but when it goes live and serious raiding/mythic+ dungeoning starts... they will see the light (pun intended)... same as in WoD when during alpha/beta they were very satisfied with ret and thought only numbers needed tweaking and called me crazy and stupid for saying that we needed whole overhaul because we are batshit terrible unless fixed by itemization and even then we are limited in options for different style of fights. But it was all fine for them as we were "mid of the pack" on simulations. But come reality and real fights... oops, ret terrible.

But i still dont think it will get better at all. I mean, some even think its better to even remove some active options and make it more passive and slower. And lots agree with them. So i think ret is not for the sane, fun loving people at all now

Now I think you're being a bit dramatic, but I do agree with your statements that anyone who genuinely thinks we're close is just being too accepting. They need to overhaul almost all of the talents and they need to give us a few more baseline tools. That is honestly a lot of work, sure we can be band-aided, but to actually be a complete cohesive spec it's a lot of work they need to put in.

[Eldonia]

I just got into the beta a very short time ago and only had a chance to try it out recently. I picked ret because that's what I have mained for a while now and I'm just not impressed. There are so few buttons and so much waiting. It was really boring. I was kinda worried as well for the changes that will take place when the pre-beta patch starts as without the artifact weapon, which as I understand wont come till Legion's release, we only have 3 or 4 offensive skills. Even with the weapon that only add's a few.

On a related topic I took a picture of our quest giver for the Ashbringer that sums up how I feel the developers act during the design.

http://imgur.com/0CwrHpG

[Deleted]

Absolutely not, I've been there since the beginning of alpha, they kind of reacted to feedback back then, but now? were going from bad to terrible, I thoroughly believe they will ship Ret as it is, we wont see major changes at this point, so much for Legion I guess.

[rubenmsalles]

with the pain of my heart i need to change my main in years only to keep in my raid spot due to a bad and lazy job

[Schattenlied]

Not a very large sample size, but 92% unsatisfied... Blizzard is just ignoring the feedback they have been given since day 1 of alpha completely.

[7empest]

There are simply better options out there in the melee department, nearly every other melee comes to mind. In terms of playability, toolkit, feel and looks. Beta Ret left me unimpressed and frankly just plain bored.

[OreoLover]

Oh wow. Did not expect so much "no," even if these tend to invite that.

This is the first time I've enjoyed Ret in years, personally.