22 year old arrested in Qatar because of being raped

[Noradin]

About that- off topic

People give police a lot of shit over rape kits not being used. But realistically, try are only really useful if someone denies sex happened. If one person says it was consensual, a DNA test proves jack and shit. It just proves that they had sex, which was never contested.

Perhaps if the attacker had s ratchets on his face and the victim had DNA under nails, but by then do you really need DNA testing?

Yes, to have hard proof of rape it you would either need witnesses, or proof that the accused incapacitated the allenged victim or knew they were incapacitated, or it would have to be statutory rape (if the allenged victim allengedly lied about their age you have another problem).

[Deleted]

I agree...?

Yeah so I mean, they do implement sharia in some form if you get me

[Noradin]

She was arrested for sex outside of marriage after she accused him of rape while the man said it was consensual. What are you saying the man accused her of?

Consensual sex with a man not her husband.*

His self-implication of the same is of no interest here since he essentially already admitted to it, but the punishment for rape would be much higher so he has nothing to lose here since he must supect the intercourse can be proven some way.

Now both of them have admitted that sex happend anyway. (would that count as two out of four eye-witnesses? I hope that is "four eye-witnesses", not "four eyes witnessing", translations and interpretations can be tricky.)
So she needs to prove it was forced on her to get out of it, he will get at least the punishment for the sex even if he isn't convicted of rape.

* Yes, that is how it works, they may make logical deductions. Thus the advice: "Don't talk to the police, have your lawyer talk to them."
(If he slips up he can claim he misspoke, if you slip up you have admitted to something, even if has it never happen. You would need proof to get out of it.)

[Quien Soy Yo]

Yeah so I mean, they do implement sharia in some form if you get me

They borrow the hudud punishments from Islamic law, but do not implement the whole independent legal system that comes along if you decide to implement "proper" sharia, is what I meant.

I might have worded it kind of clumsily.

[Deleted]

They borrow the hudud punishments from Islamic law, but do not implement the whole independent legal system that comes along if you decide to implement "proper" sharia, is what I meant.

I might have worded it kind of clumsily.

Yeah I don't think any state has applied that in centuries.

[Deleted]

None of this has been proven in court as of yet.
If I were to accuse you of some serious criminal offense and you would accuse me of some other such in return in any western country that would be investigated and we might get taken into custody just like it is the case here. Especially if one of us is a tourist who might simply flee the country (and probably cannot afford the extended stay on their own).

You're dangerously naive to reality. Take a moment to imagine the situation here, you getting buttraped after getting a drink at the hotel bar (in which you're staying because of a layover during an international flight)waking up in a strangers' room cover in goo then going to the police to get jailed for three months.

And then some gargantuan jerkwad (you) says it's all legit because no religious clerk that thinks sex outside of marriage is illegal punishable by years in prison has had his say on the matter. You frustrate me to no end sir, I'm not blind to your points but in this matter it's wholly unfounded (for reasons given in previous posts and things as rape-kits etc.).

The circumstance alone stacks everything in favor of her telling the truth (heck, look at rape statistics for muslim immigrants in western countries and it doesnt take a leap to imagine how bad women rights situation (specifically rape) in the allah forsaken golf-states are.

Anyway theres a time and place for scepticism, this isn't it.

[Belize]

Can you imagine if a women was arrested in the U.S., based on suspicions she's lying about being raped. Holy shit the outrage and butt clench would create black holes around the U.S., causing parts of the country to implode.

But since it's in Qatar, it's fine, nothing wrong with it. Stay classy MMO-C, the hypocrisy expressed here will never fail to amaze me.

[Collegeguy]

You can, when a husband rapes his wife.

Now I'm curious if a husband has ever been convicted of raping a wife in Qatar.

[Every Pwny]

Can you imagine if a women was arrested in the U.S., based on suspicions she's lying about being raped. Holy shit the outrage and butt clench would create black holes around the U.S., causing parts of the country to implode.

But since it's in Qatar, it's fine, nothing wrong with it. Stay classy MMO-C, the hypocrisy expressed here will never fail to amaze me.

I don't believe she was arrested for being suspected of lying about being raped, she was arrested after making rape claims because she was having sex outside of marriage. As the article says she was arrested for having sex outside of marriage. What I find the most concerning is people defending this, while laws like this make it just that much harder for actual rape victims because why come forward at all if you will just be arrested, better to sweep incidents of rape under the rug? It's insane anyone living in the western world would defend this.

[Noradin]

You're dangerously naive to reality. Take a moment to imagine the situation here, you getting buttraped after getting a drink at the hotel bar (in which you're staying because of a layover during an international flight)waking up in a strangers' room cover in goo then going to the police to get jailed for three months.

And then some gargantuan jerkwad (you) says it's all legit because no religious clerk that thinks sex outside of marriage is illegal punishable by years in prison has had his say on the matter. You frustrate me to no end sir, I'm not blind to your points but in this matter it's wholly unfounded (for reasons given in previous posts and things as rape-kits etc.).

The circumstance alone stacks everything in favor of her telling the truth (heck, look at rape statistics for muslim immigrants in western countries and it doesnt take a leap to imagine how bad women rights situation (specifically rape) in the allah forsaken golf-states are.

Anyway theres a time and place for scepticism, this isn't it.

Language, please. No need to swear.

Now lets civilly discuss your proper points:
(I won't get into a mud slinging match with you, take that outside.)

The way you portray this there was clear proof of something happening ("covered in goo then going to the police"), and as you later point out such things as rape-kits exist. No one ever denied sex between two people not married to each other happened. Both sides admitted to that. That is illegal according to the laws of the country, thus as this has been brought to the authorities attention it will be brought to court.

In your next paragraph you imply accusations of breaking the law should just be dismissed because you disagree with the judges presumed religious beliefs, then go on to demonstrate you ingorance about the laws in question which have been brought up in this thread. The rest of the paragraph are ranting, unsubstatinated claims, and some vague reverence to "somewhere" in this thread you apprently did not read if you missed the discussion about the potential punishments.

I agree with your assessment that she probably told the truth and the other party is simply lying, then again I have explained in previous posts how this situation would have come to pass like this or very similarily even in other (western) countries.
If a country has any kind of working justice system then a serious criminal offense (and it is up to each country to decide which those are) must be investigated and ruled upon.
I do not like how this plays out, but obviously they cannot just let her take the next flight home when she is accused of breaking the law.
I do have faith that the Netherlands are keeping an eye on this and are working quitely to improve things for their citizen.
As they should.
Her well-being is more important than generating additional press revenue through staging an attention-grapping intervention into the justice system of another sovereign country potentially leaving her a causalty to the grandstanding between nations.

The rest of that paragraph is basically an assortment of fallancies, mostly appeals at emotion by invocing xenophobia.


There certainly is time to think if you have time to post on this forum. You should use it and think about the duties the parties in volved have, about their motivations, and then about the options. Do not forget to think about the ones reporting on this it is outright stated that they have a biased source.
And especially when you only have an article and nothing but time on hand as well as an internet connection then you certainly should have time to be sceptical and look into this and be sceptical.

You seem to ask for an immedeate spectacular reaction from the Netherlands, a show of strength, a great grandstanding to demonstrate the superiority of your cause and morals. How would you suppose the reaction would play out if some country did that to yours? A public outcry in oppsition to the presumptious foreign power interfering with law and order at the very least, I assume. Extra scrunity to make sure she gets no preferial treatment would be guaranteed. Maybe even demands to make an exemple out of her.
You do not seem to have a high opinion of the judges they have in Qatar, so why do you assume they wouldn't punish her more harshly to demonstrate that they can in reaction to the public intervention you seem to be proposing? That is quite inconsistent of you or din't you pause to think before accusing others of naivité?

[tehealadin]

It's insane anyone living in the western world would defend this.

If it was in a Western country, then yea, no one would be defending it, except for the most ardent rape apologists.

However this is a nation with brown people, so it, it's like their culture, yea? So like, stop with the Western imperialism, yea? How dare you hold browner skinned people to the same standards as whites, yea? That is like, so racist and like, Islamophobic, yea? Its like 2016, yea? Like, get with the program, and stop treating them as inferior, yea? And like, the only way to show that you consider them equals, is to like, yea, hold them to a lesser standard, because they are just Muslims, yea?

[Noradin]

Can you imagine if a women was arrested in the U.S., based on suspicions she's lying about being raped. Holy shit the outrage and butt clench would create black holes around the U.S., causing parts of the country to implode.

But since it's in Qatar, it's fine, nothing wrong with it. Stay classy MMO-C, the hypocrisy expressed here will never fail to amaze me.

That is a false equivalence, since consentual sex between adults would break no law of the US (I hope).

If she injured him with a knife so she could flee and he then accused her of attacking him unprovoced, that would be closer.
(If it was in self defense it was justified, but if it wasn't it would be a crime.)

You know that your second paragraph is just a strawman no one will fall for, right?

[tehealadin]

That is a false equivalence, since consentual sex between adults would break no law of the US (I hope).

If she injured him with a knife so she could flee and he then accused her of attacking him unprovoced, that would be closer.
(If it as in self defense it was justified, but if it wasn't it would be a crime.)

You know that your second paragraph is just a strawman no one will fall for, right?

I think the issue is that if this happened in a Western country, certain posters here who are trying to deflect criticism of Qatar would be pulling the "listen and believe" argument, and that the law is sexist and needs to be repealed with a better law, but have adjusted their standards due to the religious/racial makeup of the country.

It is also true that many criticising the actions would be constantly reminding us that false rape accusations happen (the extent will vary from poster to poster) and that we need to be skeptical.

[HumbleDuck]

If it was in a Western country, then yea, no one would be defending it, except for the most ardent rape apologists.

However this is a nation with brown people, so it, it's like their culture, yea? So like, stop with the Western imperialism, yea? How dare you hold browner skinned people to the same standards as whites, yea? That is like, so racist and like, Islamophobic, yea? Its like 2016, yea? Like, get with the program, and stop treating them as inferior, yea? And like, the only way to show that you consider them equals, is to like, yea, hold them to a lesser standard, because they are just Muslims, yea?

LMAO
Its sad that this explains half of the posts here pretty accurately.

[JohnBrown1917]

One more clickbait title... Sigh.

"A Dutch woman is being detained in Qatar on suspicion of adultery after she told police she had been raped."

She ha been in jail for months... what the fuck are you on?

- - - Updated - - -

Can you imagine if a women was arrested in the U.S., based on suspicions she's lying about being raped. Holy shit the outrage and butt clench would create black holes around the U.S., causing parts of the country to implode.

But since it's in Qatar, it's fine, nothing wrong with it. Stay classy MMO-C, the hypocrisy expressed here will never fail to amaze me.

Thankfully I have not seen such comments come from fellow dutchmen.

Also huge outrage this did not come out earlier, she has been in jail since march.

[Noradin]

Also huge outrage this did not come out earlier, she has been in jail since march.

So if you were in her position you would wish for the fact you were raped to made public to all of your home country and the rest of the world?
Everyone who knows her would instantly connect the dots about her identity.

[Iphie]

According to some Dutch media she had converted to islam a few years ago, and she secretly traveled to Qatar instead of to France as she told her family. It's also reported that she changed her story several times. As far as I can see this case is a mess no matter which way you look at it.

[JohnBrown1917]

So if you were in her position you would wish for the fact you were raped to made public to all of your home country and the rest of the world?
Everyone who knows her would instantly connect the dots about her identity.

yes, and?


10ch

[Spiral Mage]

The U.S. is a fucked up country in it's own rights but this reminds me how absolutely looney the rest of the world is. Oh, and "she wasn't arrested for being raped"? Yes she was, and they even admit to having done this to another woman prior and having to apologize/release her.

[Deleted]

The way you portray this there was clear proof of something happening ("covered in goo then going to the police"), and as you later point out such things as rape-kits exist. No one ever denied sex between two people not married to each other happened. Both sides admitted to that. That is illegal according to the laws of the country, thus as this has been brought to the authorities attention it will be brought to court.

It's like youre expecting the rapist leave a note signed 'I did it' along with a semen & hair sample. Mostly why this is so infuriating is because. I cannot imagine any situation where youd go 'yeah this person was raped/sexually assaulted'. And leave this verdict entirely with the qatari justice system, which is nearly as ridiculous as making sex without being married illegal.

This happens a lot more in society nowadays where different cant be backwards and stupid because that gets you in trouble with one of the -isms. Just because their laws are different dont make them right, acceptable or even tolerable. The only reason these situations exist is because itd be too much of a bother to adress at this time.

Im not okay with that, but you are all to happy to hug,accomodate and tolerate the poor disadvantaged foreigners. Infuriating!

In your next paragraph you imply accusations of breaking the law should just be dismissed because you disagree with the judges presumed religious beliefs, then go on to demonstrate you ingorance about the laws in question which have been brought up in this thread. The rest of the paragraph are ranting, unsubstatinated claims, and some vague reverence to "somewhere" in this thread you apprently did not read if you missed the discussion about the potential punishments.

The argument I was trying to make is that your faith in their justice system is misplaced, partly because of how heavily its' influenced by religion. The mere fact shes female makes her inferior in their eyes and guarantees an unfair treatment, thats how their society works (Im sure you'll do away with this as speculation but i cant be bothered to get bundle the women rights studies and statistics for an mmo forum post ) i can guarantee you if it had been male on male rape this would have gone very differently.

I agree with your assessment that she probably told the truth and the other party is simply lying, then again I have explained in previous posts how this situation would have come to pass like this or very similarily even in other (western) countries.
If a country has any kind of working justice system then a serious criminal offense (and it is up to each country to decide which those are) must be investigated and ruled upon.
I do not like how this plays out, but obviously they cannot just let her take the next flight home when she is accused of breaking the law.
I do have faith that the Netherlands are keeping an eye on this and are working quitely to improve things for their citizen.
As they should.
Her well-being is more important than generating additional press revenue through staging an attention-grapping intervention into the justice system of another sovereign country potentially leaving her a causalty to the grandstanding between nations.

In north korea(&taiwan,china and probably many more countries i do not know of or heck even turkey nowadays, rising star in the islamic law world that it is.) its' a serious criminal offense to criticise the leaders. Again, just because something is a law somewhere doesnt make it right or just (nor is it a matter of majority). In most cases what is just isnt clear.. At all.. But when it is so clearly wrong as in these cases then it dumbfounds me how accomodating and understanding seemingly intelligent people are willing to be 'because it's their culture /law. So scared of saying anything we have in the west is superior or advanced.. Because surely that makes you a racist xenophobe, right?

The rest of that paragraph is basically an assortment of fallancies, mostly appeals at emotion by invocing xenophobia.

Oh there we go, riding the shame train like a good boy. /pat pat

You seem to ask for an immedeate spectacular reaction from the Netherlands, a show of strength, a great grandstanding to demonstrate the superiority of your cause and morals. How would you suppose the reaction would play out if some country did that to yours? A public outcry in oppsition to the presumptious foreign power interfering with law and order at the very least, I assume. Extra scrunity to make sure she gets no preferial treatment would be guaranteed. Maybe even demands to make an exemple out of her.
You do not seem to have a high opinion of the judges they have in Qatar, so why do you assume they wouldn't punish her more harshly to demonstrate that they can in reaction to the public intervention you seem to be proposing? That is quite inconsistent of you or din't you pause to think before accusing others of naivité?

As a dutch citizen I am keenly aware of how the dutch diplomatic channels work(especially the current cabinet loves the silent but sure approach) furthermore shown by the fact that the family of laura (remember; the 22 year old that got raped and spent 3 months jailed with 40 other women) has asked for media silence. So youre wrong in the assumption that im dismayed over the diplomatic approach (in the mh17 case I was less enthousiastic because they seem too affraid to step on toes or cause a ruckus but in this case it seems prudent to me(alas admittesly i am in no way knowledgeable on international diplomacy)

Ehat bothers me is your neutral 'dont rock the boat' attitude of superb understanding and tolerance to an absolutely disghusting situation.Im sick and tired of every discussion being mired in political correctness and tolerance. Imo it seems common sense can only lose with your 'extremely tolerant' attitude, people like trump (the far end of the other side of the spectrum) are a direct result of this... Which is just as bad!!

Anyway, my low opinion of their judges is a direct result of their one archaic law I know. Anyone taking a law like that seriously (and actually using it to judge people) doesnt deserve to be taken seriously. And theyd do everything you said and more to that poor girl if we all cared as little for her (mental&physical) wellbeing as you seem to do. Because with the 2022 world cup football heading to qatar (and the light it shines on their abhorrent human rights situation) they are hard pressed to not generate more bad news.

And thats why being calm tolerant and super huggy bear understanding as you are being would leave laura to her fate, I trust even you can see that that is something we shouldnt want.

Time to cause a ruckus!

- - - Updated - - -

According to some Dutch media she had converted to islam a few years ago, and she secretly traveled to Qatar instead of to France as she told her family. It's also reported that she changed her story several times. As far as I can see this case is a mess no matter which way you look at it.

Source?