[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[nathrizarri]

If Avalanche remains as good a talent as it is right now. Crit will be a mainstat for Frost

Crit is tied to so many other traits/abilities/procs, already making it look like it is going to be our main stat regardless of avalanche but..

Comparing Icecap with Avalanche I found out that Icecap deals more than avalanche, actually avalanche ended up being 3 to 5 % of my total damage on single target 112lvl dummy.

[RuneDK]

If Avalanche remains as good a talent as it is right now. Crit will be a mainstat for Frost

Due to the KM change crit will easily be our top stat. Especially with the fact that KM doesn't effect Frost Strike(which is hitting like a truck). I can see certain builds going Crit/Haste then others going Crit/Mastery. I think haste will have breakpoints to aim for still though. Crit I feel will ALWAYS be our best stat until 33-35%(which won't be achievable until probably the final tier). There's just so much tied to it in talents and our main mechanic.

[Deleted]

Due to the KM change crit will easily be our top stat. Especially with the fact that KM doesn't effect Frost Strike(which is hitting like a truck). I can see certain builds going Crit/Haste then others going Crit/Mastery. I think haste will have breakpoints to aim for still though. Crit I feel will ALWAYS be our best stat until 33-35%(which won't be achievable until probably the final tier). There's just so much tied to it in talents and our main mechanic.

Met a frost DK with 846 ilvl and 45% crit in a mythic+ dungeon. You get 840 from regular mythic dungeons and 850 from mythic+3

Very strong
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jpPRbyM6J4NqrD9k

[RuneDK]

Met a frost DK with 846 ilvl and 45% crit in a mythic+ dungeon.

Very strong
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jpPRbyM6J4NqrD9k

Well shit....I didn't think 40+ would be achievable in that gear level....I really hope they aren't going to wrath crit levels. I remember having liek 70% crit on my mage.

The specs look fairly balanced too. Which is nice to see, hopefully as ilvls get higher they stay balanced. However, I'd love to see what we look like to other classes as the beta goes on. I don't want our specs to be balanced among ourselves but end up being complete shit specs entirely(like in siege, when dk dps made up the bottom two dps specs). Avalanche is really strong though...that's awesome.

[Deleted]

Well shit....I didn't think 40+ would be achievable in that gear level....I really hope they aren't going to wrath crit levels. I remember having liek 70% crit on my mage.

The specs look fairly balanced too. Which is nice to see, hopefully as ilvls get higher they stay balanced. However, I'd love to see what we look like to other classes as the beta goes on. I don't want our specs to be balanced among ourselves but end up being complete shit specs entirely(like in siege, when dk dps made up the bottom two dps specs). Avalanche is really strong though...that's awesome.

I can tell you from doing A LOT of dungeons, DK's are in a pretty good place. As in nr.1 ST 90% of the time.

[Creatinebrah]

i thought dps meters don't mean anything right now since numbers aren't final

[PandaMango141]

We haven't had any tuning in the last two tuning passes. We might be right where they intend to be as we have fuck all utility.

[Baddok21]

Met a frost DK with 846 ilvl and 45% crit in a mythic+ dungeon. You get 840 from regular mythic dungeons and 850 from mythic+3

Very strong
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jpPRbyM6J4NqrD9k

At those levels of crit, the Killing Machine mechanic starts to fall apart (past 33% crit is noticeable)

They did state however they dont want the jump in power from Tier to Tier to be so high this expansion so maybe your crit/haste/mastery will be pretty much settled in the first tier raid BUT the new power upgrades come from more legendaries and items with procs.

At 50% crit Killing Machine and Obliteration become dead mechanics/talents

for example compare his Obliterate Crit rate (which is affected by KM) to his

Auto attack
Avalanche
Crystalline swords
Frost fever
Howling Blast
Frost Strike

His Killing Machine has basicly become an 11% crit bonus (the mechanic is virtually dead to him at that natural lvl of crit) and i stated this along time ago. Its just really nice that we have "Crit bonus" mechanics that make it a good stat outside of KM procs.

Like kanj as Unholy if you wore his gear you would basicly have an identical crit rate.

[NecroSleetstorm]

At those levels of crit, the Killing Machine mechanic starts to fall apart (past 33% crit is noticeable)

They did state however they dont want the jump in power from Tier to Tier to be so high this expansion so maybe your crit/haste/mastery will be pretty much settled in the first tier raid BUT the new power upgrades come from more legendaries and items with procs.

At 50% crit Killing Machine and Obliteration become dead mechanics/talents

for example compare his Obliterate Crit rate (which is affected by KM) to his

Auto attack
Avalanche
Crystalline swords
Frost fever
Howling Blast
Frost Strike

His Killing Machine has basicly become an 11% crit bonus (the mechanic is virtually dead to him at that natural lvl of crit) and i stated this along time ago. Its just really nice that we have "Crit bonus" mechanics that make it a good stat outside of KM procs.

Like kanj as Unholy if you wore his gear you would basicly have an identical crit rate.

Obliteration now makes Obliterate unable to proc Rime. Obliterate now deals X% increased damage as frost (make it strong enough to equal or beat Rime in a 1-2 target scenario) for X seconds. Would allow us to freely target swap to adds and do explosive ST burst without worrying about being GCD screwed by Rime interacting badly with the talent. With the Obliterate legendary that refunds 2 runes, a talent like that could be insanely strong for ST purposes. Make it dispellable to make WPVPrs (lmao) not cry on the official general forums. I'd really like for it to have another modifier for when KM procs during all of that Oblit spam. Perfect thing to give the chaos bolt treatment (like the artifact trait increasing critical strike damage) would be this.

I duno. Do something. That crit rating/KM issue seems extremely problematic going forward. It makes me question the mastery nerf. Perhaps crit should have been toned down instead. Small gaffe by Blizzard.

Edit: Why does Sindragosa's Fury still exist in the same form since it was created? It's bad and has been bad. That 5 min CD screws it. It would have to hit for millions (that would be broken) to justify that long of a CD. I really wish She would fly in like a temporary guardian. I mean, Crystalline Swords (fuck I hate this trait too) is just a watered down Dancing Rune Weapon from Blood, crossed with Frost Mage Icicles. May as well copy Gargoyle a little.

Frost mostly lacks in the Soul Reaping department. Why does Frost not have a baseline ability that deals Shadowfrost damage? I will GREATLY miss Soul Reaper as Frost. Cut it from Unholy and give it to us. The original few artifact weapons procs we had were also incredibly amusing...Lich Kings with RNG beneficial procs and minor damage, then a Shadowmourne like effect later on. I recall the sub-zero talent in early alpha but it got cut, QQ.

[Deleted]

We haven't had any tuning in the last two tuning passes. We might be right where they intend to be as we have fuck all utility.

My thought exactly.

[Icedcoffeee]

I'm guessing we're going to have a soft crit cap and a less soft haste cap, and then stack mastery. Particularly with an Avalanche build, since several talents don't seem to play well with crit stacking. Makes me miss reforging. GA and BoS both detract from, or at least don't benefit Avalanche (or Icecap), and Obliteration devalues crit. Seems like an odd interaction.

Does crit not effect our pure spells at all? Seeing Remorseless Winter and Glacial advance both down at ~5% is pretty discouraging.

[Darkovan]

Does crit not effect our pure spells at all? Seeing Remorseless Winter and Glacial advance both down at ~5% is pretty discouraging.

Because he isn't using glacial advance on cooldown which is strange because its hitting harder then his frost strikes which would make it the priority i would imagine?
Each of the boss fights is around 2min and hes averaging 4 GA's on each but its a 15sec cd.
Glacial Advance was averaging per cast: 168k - 322k
Frost Strike averages: 96k-195k
If it was used on CD it would have been very close to avalanche damage.

Remorseless winter seems to be broken also, he clearly has around 45% crit but remorseless winter's crit rate was around 5% (within 2% of 5% on all hits for the whole dungeon) it also doesn't appear to be scaling with attack power in those logs as the damage during and outside of pillar is the same (roughly).
EDIT: oh, i see what you mean, I thought you were referring to total damage done but you were referring to the crit rates of both. My bad sorry, I'm going to presume its just bugged?

His Killing Machine has basicly become an 11% crit bonus (the mechanic is virtually dead to him at that natural lvl of crit) and i stated this along time ago. Its just really nice that we have "Crit bonus" mechanics that make it a good stat outside of KM procs..

his crit rate with obliterate single target is 95%+ which is a 50% crit rate bonus?

Based on information in the log, this is the build he was running...i cant post links coz not enough posts:
Icy Talons
Freezing Fog
Avalanche
Winter is Coming
Volatile Shielding
Runic Attenuation
Glacial Advance

[Baddok21]

EDIT: oh, i see what you mean, I thought you were referring to total damage done but you were referring to the crit rates of both. My bad sorry, I'm going to presume its just bugged?

his crit rate with obliterate single target is 95%+ which is a 50% crit rate bonus?

Based on information in the log, this is the build he was running...i cant post links coz not enough posts:
Icy Talons
Freezing Fog
Avalanche
Winter is Coming
Volatile Shielding
Runic Attenuation
Glacial Advance

his crit rate on Obliterate was 76-80% and for some reason does not seem to be effecting his off hand.

Either case if you account for Critical strikes that would have happened naturally vs Critical strikes that could only happen due to KM his Obliterate critical strike chance is only increased by 18%.

you can actually test this by hitting target dummies on a slight angle (your auto attacks will not register but your special attacks will still land).

[Gathed]

Are you sure those logs are correct? If I'm reading it right he has more Rime procs than he does Obliterate casts, but I'm going to assume that's just a bug. However if we assume that his Howling Blasts where only cast with Rime proc, that means Rime is tied to the MH Obliterate crit rate, not the intended 45% rate.

[Deleted]

Has anyone been trying Glacial Advance on the most recent builds? Seems the radius is smaller for the spikes and it seems to hit more consistantly and feel less clunky. Either that or i'm more experienced with it but ... need a second opinion...

Still the damage is OK for just one rune, but i feel it needs to do a lot more damage to be worth the hassle of thinking on the positioning, and ofc for single target is extremely "meh". For AOE is just yet another button to press and it feels it doesnt pack enough punch to make it stand in the middle of all the other options we have for AOE.

Could be fixed if the damage is tuned upwards but still, hard to justify this new button. Shame, because i realy realy like its animation and fantasy feel.

Add damage to make it worth it and a little stun/disorient ? i can only wish.


Anyone else has an opinion for Glacial advance ?

[nathrizarri]

WHAT A NERF!!!

Especially Hypothermia, Frozen Soul.. has been nerfed to the point where their impact is non existent.

Hypothermia lost it's synergy with Freezing Fog
Frozen Soul lost it's syngergy with Gathering Storm.

Icy talons+Freezing fog+avalanche+runic attenuation+obliteration damage on 112 pvp dummy went from 185k to 152k..

May be a tuning issue but razorice nerf and frozen soul mechanic change/nerf is huge. I AM SPEECHLESS

[Deleted]

WHAT A NERF!!!

Especially Hypothermia, Frozen Soul.. has been nerfed to the point where their impact is non existent.

Hypothermia lost it's synergy with Freezing Fog
Frozen Soul lost it's syngergy with Gathering Storm.

Icy talons+Freezing fog+avalanche+runic attenuation+obliteration damage on 112 pvp dummy went from 185k to 152k..

May be a tuning issue but razorice nerf and frozen soul mechanic change/nerf is huge. I AM SPEECHLESS

I get the same numbers, but I don't even come close to this numbers with any other class (highest ist 110k with Beastmaster and 100k with Demon Hunter in PvP gear on Boss dummy). Maybe I can only play Frost or the Nerf is not that bad...!

[Icedcoffeee]

WHAT A NERF!!!

Especially Hypothermia, Frozen Soul.. has been nerfed to the point where their impact is non existent.

Hypothermia lost it's synergy with Freezing Fog
Frozen Soul lost it's syngergy with Gathering Storm.

Icy talons+Freezing fog+avalanche+runic attenuation+obliteration damage on 112 pvp dummy went from 185k to 152k..

May be a tuning issue but razorice nerf and frozen soul mechanic change/nerf is huge. I AM SPEECHLESS

I'm not sure the nerf was that huge. MMO-C got some of the details wrong. Frozen Soul still synergizes with Gathering Storm, the damage has just been shifted from a flat 5000 to a percentage of weapon damage, so it should scale better. Hypothermia does lose synergy with FF, but now it is arguably more bursty. And the Frost Scythe one is just incorrect.

[nathrizarri]

I get the same numbers, but I don't even come close to this numbers with any other class (highest ist 110k with Beastmaster and 100k with Demon Hunter in PvP gear on Boss dummy). Maybe I can only play Frost or the Nerf is not that bad...!

Boss dummy is different. We have been nerfed to the Uh levels,but I find their utility to be much better.

We have come to the point where we literally have no big milestones in our artifact tree.

[Decisive The Hallowed]

Its alright...the only big change I dont like is the remove of instant Healing abilities.
Since I was spec'd for Death Pact, it was great to have a 50% instant heal up my sleeve...saved my ass countless of times in raids and soloing content.
And now all I have is Death Strike for a lame ass 7% heal...that costs 40 runic power...like firstly, 7% is gonna do jack-shit to help me, and secondly...40 RUNIC POWER? like really? I tried healing myself against a tough elite mob with Blood Strike and I just couldn't heal at all...got like one strike...ran out of runic...couldn't get enough time to generate more and easily died...
Normaly, If I had low health with a mob I could just instant cast Death Pact for a 50% heal, use Empowered Rune Weapon and get about 3 Death Strikes that could heal me up another 30% in total. So thats about a 70-80% total heal in about 5 seconds flat. Massive difference now.