How to make leveling relevent?

[MisterSheep]

Just sayin' stop alienating urself any more.

Quite frankly i don't really play the game anymore. Once in a while i'll hop on, play some quests and etc. But i just get bored so fast. Either run LFR a bit, but get bored the hell out before i'm geared enough to join actual guild runs (which was so fun to do when i could find pugs so easily back in WotLK even with semi-decent gear). Either ''try'' to level up one of the fiften lvl 90 i had in MoP to lvl 100, but there's only so much shadowmoon valley you can do before hating your life, so only 3 of them actualy hit 100. Or create an alt and play through some poorly designed low-level zones.

You are right tho. Either way i'm getting bored out of the game really fast. But i loved this game so much, out of nostalgia i still wish for the best. WoW lost more than half of it's subscription, and whatever is left is mostly running LFG/LFR like mindless zombies. Yes, somewhere in WoW there is still some multiplayer glory left, but all of it is gated behind a curtain of boring content that makes it not worth the while.

I don't think i trust Blizzard to make the required changes to bring WoW's former glory back though, so yeah, empty hopes and dreams.

[Deleted]

Leveling... wtf. WoW never had leveling as a good game concept in the game. Even in the earliest version of vanilla it was just very bad people who stuck on leveling. The fun starts on max level because that's where questing and solo progress slowly comes to an end. Even 5 man dungeons are just entry stuff - the content that produces the highest playtime is and should be raids.

[Toppy]

First step is to stop catering to your immediate gratification portion of this playerbase on the issue, as that's most of why so much of the game is a joke now.

the immediate gratification audience is what made WoW so popular. The issue is they went to far.

Most of WoW's problems can be fixed by looking to other MMO and seeing what worked. Or hell, blizzard using their own systems. For instance they got rid of tokens for no reason and rarely use their ilvl scaling. Two things which, if implemented alongside leveling and dungeons in general would fix many issues.

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Leveling... wtf. WoW never had leveling as a good game concept in the game. Even in the earliest version of vanilla it was just very bad people who stuck on leveling. The fun starts on max level because that's where questing and solo progress slowly comes to an end. Even 5 man dungeons are just entry stuff - the content that produces the highest playtime is and should be raids.

One of the biggest appeals of vanilla WoW was the leveling experience being enjoyable compared to other MMO. As someone who played EQ prior to WoW, and then WoW all the way back to the original beta, I can attest to this. If you look back at old reviews it was one of the most commonly cited reasons why WoW was great. As well as the ability to login for an hour or two a day and make progress: something other MMO didnt tend to have.

[Kazgrel]

Oh hey, more belly aching for making leveling more tedious.

[Deleted]

the immediate gratification audience is what made WoW so popular. The issue is they went to far.

Most of WoW's problems can be fixed by looking to other MMO and seeing what worked. Or hell, blizzard using their own systems. For instance they got rid of tokens for no reason and rarely use their ilvl scaling. Two things which, if implemented alongside leveling and dungeons in general would fix many issues.

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One of the biggest appeals of vanilla WoW was the leveling experience being enjoyable compared to other MMO. As someone who played EQ prior to WoW, and then WoW all the way back to the original beta, I can attest to this. If you look back at old reviews it was one of the most commonly cited reasons why WoW was great. As well as the ability to login for an hour or two a day and make progress: something other MMO didnt tend to have.

That was because everyone had to do it and many didn't do it efficiently. But the elites were there, they got right into endgame and realized how big the game really is. Leveling was already then completely overshadowed by the endgame content. It just took many people quiet long to get here. Karazhan was proably the turning point over the complete course of TBC that finally showed the slow casual people the true game and they took that and brought us naxxramas. WotlK showed everyone how good the game really is, getting a huge group of people into endgame content and raiding. And this is also when they started to bring the player not the class, this is when they dropped RPG elements one after another, this is when they introduced heirlooms and hoped that leveling will just be forgotten.

For blizzard this step was as great and huge in terms as success as it was when RTS players started multiplayer and didn't really care about the campaign anymore.

[Toppy]

That was because everyone had to do it and many didn't do it efficiently. But the elites were there, they got right into endgame and realized how big the game really is. Leveling was already then completely overshadowed by the endgame content. It just took many people quiet long to get here. Karazhan was proably the turning point over the complete course of TBC that finally showed the slow casual people the true game and they took that and brought us naxxramas. WotlK showed everyone how good the game really is, getting a huge group of people into endgame content and raiding. And this is also when they started to bring the player not the class, this is when they dropped RPG elements one after another, this is when they introduced heirlooms and hoped that leveling will just be forgotten.

Raiding has never, ever, in any way, been done by anywhere near something most players, or even a significant number of players, took part in. At most Naxx had a good number of people doing it. Naxx was also seen as the most casual raid ever unti Trial of the Crusader came along.

[Deleted]

Raiding has never, ever, in any way, been done by anywhere near something most players, or even a significant number of players, took part in. At most Naxx had a good number of people doing it. Naxx was also seen as the most casual raid ever unti Trial of the Crusader came along.

It doesn't matter how many people do it. What matters is for what people you design the game. Blizzard always thinks of gameplay and hoped that based on that players produce content themselves by being competitive / esport etc. In their RTS games the campaign was cool but the big impact of success came from the multiplayer games. Balancing, designing everything a dev can do was focused here and the campaign was left untouched even by balance changes. Players play through campaign a few times, spending some hours here but when they get into multiplayer content they potentially spend 100x more time there, making it a lot more impact. A community/scene especially in blizzard games comes and surrounds 99% about the endgame content, esports multiplayer content. Never about campaign, leveling etc.

Vanilla is still in some minds as "admiring shining raiders". That's because the raiders even then were the people who were professional players. They were the people who took all the game had and played it to the maximal potential. They used all tools the devs developed and the devs developed the game for them. Because people do not watch casual sport in TV but professional. That's what people talk about, that what makes money and success.

[Toppy]

It doesn't matter how many people do it. What matters is for what people you design the game. Blizzard always thinks of gameplay and hoped that based on that players produce content themselves by being competitive / esport etc. In their RTS games the campaign was cool but the big impact of success came from the multiplayer games. Balancing, designing everything a dev can do was focused here and the campaign was left untouched even by balance changes. Players play through campaign a few times, spending some hours here but when they get into multiplayer content they potentially spend 100x more time there, making it a lot more impact. A community/scene especially in blizzard games comes and surrounds 99% about the endgame content, esports multiplayer content. Never about campaign, leveling etc.

Vanilla is still in some minds as "admiring shining raiders". That's because the raiders even then were the people who were professional players. They were the people who took all the game had and played it to the maximal potential. They used all tools the devs developed and the devs developed the game for them. Because people do not watch casual sport in TV but professional. That's what people talk about, that what makes money and success.

SC2 isnt doing so great largely due to the esport focus, while SC1 did great despite not being built around the e-sport focus: it was something it picked up.

Thats the irony: whenever blizzard tries to cater to the hardcore audience, it backfires. When they dont notably cater towards the hardcore audience (like in vanilla and tbc where they got stuff, but everything wasnt geared towards them) then the hardcore folk are happier. Vanilla and TBC was no doubt a great time to be a raider. But. Blizzard did not have the raid or die mentality. The further down that path they went, the less popular WoW became. Up until now, where hardcore guilds are quiting left and right. And the other players who make up the majority of the playerbase, arent happy that raiding is so focused.

[Sylvaeres]

Dude I feel like every 3 days there's some armchair booker trying to fix pointless nonsense in the game. Leveling doesn't matter in a game that's built around max level. Leveling is fine. You do some dungeons, you get your levels, and then you work on the shit that matters.

[Mad_Murdock]

How to make leveling better. Get rid of it for the people who don't want it. Makes it 10x harder\longer for the people who do.

You're welcome

[cerva]

I hope Blizzard can make levelling fun again. I love levelling

[Deleted]

Or what about just staying in Redridge to finish the questline if it is that important to you? Honestly, some people here need their hand held at every occasion...

Ehm.

This is not my suggestion i'm simply relaying what blizzard has said.

Maybe you are the one needing your hand held to avoic spouting nonsense like that?

[MisterSheep]

Shifting it's focus to raiding seemed to work fine at first, because all those more casual players were now able to experiment raiding for the first time. It made the game more fun for them for a while.

But then it backfired. By focusing on endgame it ruined the leveling experience. Less people were actualy leveling, more were raiding, everyone seeked to rush to endgame. It literally killed any player interaction at low level. Having a poor low-level experience, new players don't find the game fun anymore and don't stick to the game.

We NEED new players and more player interaction. Otherwise the game will just die off as all that will be left are hardcore players and those who play out of nostalgia.

They need to sell the game to new players, not only to veterans.

[RedGamer030]

Add creature scaling to all zones.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Make 1-100 take a bit longer and increases the difficulty. 110 should be short and super challenging. You should have to know your class decently to make it to 110 in a reasonable amount of time. It should take skilled players a week or a few days and weaker players might take a week or two.

[Deleted]

They should just level squish to 60 every expansion, a new expansion is always 60-70 (or any arbitrary 10 paragon levels). It solves a lot of things. Just bake 1-60+80-85 together as a coherent 1-60 experience and offer other expansions as optional "story adventures" throughout.

[MisterSheep]

They should just level squish to 60 every expansion, a new expansion is always 60-70 (or any arbitrary 10 paragon levels). It solves a lot of things. Just bake 1-60+80-85 together as a coherent 1-60 experience and offer other expansions as optional "story adventures" throughout.

I really like this idea. By almost halving the required levels to reach level cap, each levels would feel like a better achievement. Also, lesser levels means that there would be more people for each level ''brackets'' thus more people playing together.

I still feel like every expacks should be scaled to be ''modern'' content too, with an emphasis on the most recent one, but it would allow everyone to run more content and still progress, even if it has to be at a slower rate.

Imagine if EVERY dungeons and raids from every expansions could be run as endgame content and reward you with decent gear/currencies to help players progress, with dungeons/raids from the latest expansion giving you a bonus cache(much like bonus cache for playing tank/healer).

Those who want to gear as fast as possible will run the latest content, and those who want to play for fun can run a wider variety of content, and yet still be able to progress and compete with other players.

[Kelathos]

Everything about the WoW treadmill is designed for you to aspire towards the top.
Blizzard cannot afford to splinter the playerbase into segments that are still leveling. They ensure we quickly reach level cap so that we can actually play together.

[procne]

Seeing how many different and bizarre ways of dealing with the problem people come up with I'm pretty sure that whatever Blizzard does will make majority of people upset.

[Spotnick]

Leveling should have been a Vanilla only feature. There really is no point, except putting everybody back at the same item level.

Like everything else, questing should be an optional end game, just like Suramar is on the beta. We just rush leveling to get back at max level ASAP, so what's the point?

They should serve to tell the story.

The point of levels was to gain talents, which is gone anyways and was replaced by another leveling system, the artifact power one, so basically leveling from 100 to 110 really has no purpose as it gives you absolutely nothing in terms of spells/talents.