[BEAST MASTERY]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Hallebarry]

Looks like you are LFG raider.

The main WoD BM mechanic was on Focus fire and Frenzy buffs.

I mean, if you insist, man.


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[Deleted]

As far as I tested on the ptr, SV is going to be the only spec with competition caused by skill
MM and BM players that are not retarded will do the same dps if they have the same gear
Unless some tier set or legendary changes this

I just hope SV does a little more dps when played properly, but BM might still be better on progression because it is ranged and mobile and because the ez rotation it is also a spec good for doing certain tasks in an encounter.

[Freerunz]

The difference lies between those who stand on shit, cast the priority skills in any order, and fucks the raid by failing at mechanics versus those who align procs, think ahead and plans cooldowns, maximize dmg, moves enough to not be hit by shit and mantains dps uptime on the boss, and finally moves away from shit on the floor.
The rotation or priority complexity should not be taken into account when measuring skill as a whole since there are a shit ton of other variables / factors to determine a player overall skill (at raiding or pvp).

This is short guide for raiding. This is the main rules. I am talking about maximum performance (your skill, god bless you Blizzard) on your class\spec. Without spec\item mechanics you are just the same as others hunter players.

MM and BM players that are not retarded will do the same dps if they have the same gear
Unless some tier set or legendary changes this.

Yes, thats what im talking about. I mean is it fun? Where are motivation to improve your skill, damn blizzard....

[Keyimin]

It generally has the same play style. All the abilities are still there, kill command, beastial wrath, dire beasts, multi shot, cobra shot. Hardly able to say it was "gutted". Only real difference is that cobra shot is a spender and not a generator.

I welcome the new changes, hunter is the class that has had the most and largest overhauls, it gives me the chance to play the class i love but with new things it keeps me on my toes.



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Are you trolling or just talking shite? I'm not quite sure.

[Deleted]

This is short guide for raiding. This is the main rules. I am talking about maximum performance (your skill, god bless you Blizzard) on your class\spec. Without spec\item mechanics you are just the same as others hunter players.


Yes, thats what im talking about. I mean is it fun? Where are motivation to improve your skill, damn blizzard....

No, it is not fun, unless we have fun tasks in encounters like I said
If that is not the case I hope SV is so much better that my RL will let me go melee because I do like SV a lot
I used to not like melee but the new animations changed that

[Freerunz]

unless we have fun tasks in encounters like I said

Comparing what i test on beta, we are fucked.

[Nythiz]

It generally has the same play style. All the abilities are still there, kill command, beastial wrath, dire beasts, multi shot, cobra shot. Hardly able to say it was "gutted". Only real difference is that cobra shot is a spender and not a generator.

This. People in this thread are ffing drama queens. "Oh no! The class is completely gutted from what it was before !".

Bullshit. Focus fire is gone, which was a really simple mechanic and hardly something you could stand out with. The only gaming that Focus Fire had was making sure you had it going during BW, that was pretty much it.

Other than that we lost a focus generator, which is what most people seem to bitch about. So basically people are pissed that instead of doing nothing waiting for focus to regen; they want their ability back that basically had doing negligible damage while you waited around doing nothing.
Would I have preferred to have a focus generator? Yes. It beats pressing nothing. But please don't act like the sky is falling and the class is forever ruined.

Looks like you are LFG raider.

The main WoD BM mechanic was on Focus fire and Frenzy buffs.

I played BM during mythic BRF when BM was the go-to spec. And although Focus Fire use had it's place it was far from the main mechanic.
Hell, keeping up steady focus was harder than Focus Fire.

IMO the main mechanics were:
a) Gaming your AoE rotation
Max beast cleave up time + Kill Command as much as possible + Barrage on cooldown required WAY more effort than anything focus fire / frenzy related.

b) Gaming your BW
Making sure everything was good to go, so you can do max damage during BW. Pool focus before hand, make sure KC is off cooldown as you go into BW so you can use it 3 times during BW, not wasting FF 20 seconds before going into BW, etc.

Other than that it was pretty straight forward spec to be frank.

Edit:
Dont get me wrong. I had hopes that hunter specs would get a bit more depth. Im a bit disappointed with certain aspects too.
I just cant stand all the melodramatic whining about how the spec got so much worse, when its not all that different.

[Hallebarry]

This. People in this thread are ffing drama queens. "Oh no! The class is completely gutted from what it was before !".

Bullshit. Focus fire is gone, which was a really simple mechanic and hardly something you could stand out with. The only gaming that Focus Fire had was making sure you had it going during BW, that was pretty much it.

Other than that we lost a focus generator, which is what most people seem to bitch about. So basically people are pissed that instead of doing nothing waiting for focus to regen; they want their ability back that basically had doing negligible damage while you waited around doing nothing.
Would I have preferred to have a focus generator? Yes. It beats pressing nothing. But please don't act like the sky is falling and the class is forever ruined.



I played BM during mythic BRF when BM was the go-to spec. And although Focus Fire use had it's place it was far from the main mechanic.
Hell, keeping up steady focus was harder than Focus Fire.

IMO the main mechanics were:
a) Gaming your AoE rotation
Max beast cleave up time + Kill Command as much as possible + Barrage on cooldown required WAY more effort than anything focus fire / frenzy related.

b) Gaming your BW
Making sure everything was good to go, so you can do max damage during BW. Pool focus before hand, make sure KC is off cooldown as you go into BW so you can use it 3 times during BW, not wasting FF 20 seconds before going into BW, etc.

Other than that it was pretty straight forward spec to be frank.

I mean, that was my entire point that i wasn't even going to bother getting in to. Lining up CD's and pairing them was like one of the least worries and priorities i had when i played BM.

Like now, MM is such a basic straight forward brain dead spec, but the difference is shown in many factors, not just lining up cooldowns.


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[Keyimin]

This. People in this thread are ffing drama queens. "Oh no! The class is completely gutted from what it was before !".

Bullshit. Focus fire is gone, which was a really simple mechanic and hardly something you could stand out with. The only gaming that Focus Fire had was making sure you had it going during BW, that was pretty much it.

Other than that we lost a focus generator, which is what most people seem to bitch about. So basically people are pissed that instead of doing nothing waiting for focus to regen; they want their ability back that basically had doing negligible damage while you waited around doing nothing.
Would I have preferred to have a focus generator? Yes. It beats pressing nothing. But please don't act like the sky is falling and the class is forever ruined.



I played BM during mythic BRF when BM was the go-to spec. And although Focus Fire use had it's place it was far from the main mechanic.
Hell, keeping up steady focus was harder than Focus Fire.

IMO the main mechanics were:
a) Gaming your AoE rotation
Max beast cleave up time + Kill Command as much as possible + Barrage on cooldown required WAY more effort than anything focus fire / frenzy related.

b) Gaming your BW
Making sure everything was good to go, so you can do max damage during BW. Pool focus before hand, make sure KC is off cooldown as you go into BW so you can use it 3 times during BW, not wasting FF 20 seconds before going into BW, etc.

Other than that it was pretty straight forward spec to be frank.

Edit:
Dont get me wrong. I had hopes that hunter specs would get a bit more depth. Im a bit disappointed with certain aspects too.
I just cant stand all the melodramatic whining about how the spec got so much worse, when its not all that different.

Here's the point: Even taking your assertion regarding FF not being anything major as true, everything you just described in terms of gaming/planning/management is gone. Yes, it was simple enough already, but at least it had SOMETHING going. If you want to just read off a bunch of spells and compare those to what we have now, sure, we only really lost Cobra/Arcane (in terms of rotational abilities because we lost a lot more elsewhere).

But doing that is a bit like saying my T-shirt and coffee filters are the same because both are made from cotton. It's about how the spec is put together, not that the abilities basically look the same. I described and explained the reason why it feels drastically different upthread, which has everything to do with our new resource mechanic, but it's objectively true that it's fundamentally different.

It's also objectively true that we lost a host of other abilities/utility that may not be that critical in raids, but definitely makes the spec feel gutted when questing and soloing content. So calling people drama queens over these basic facts is just as hyperbolic as anyone else's comments.

[Azortharion]

Bullshit. Focus fire is gone, which was a really simple mechanic and hardly something you could stand out with. The only gaming that Focus Fire had was making sure you had it going during BW, that was pretty much it.

This is just a wrong statement. It was one of the only things that made you stand out, especially on progression. Gaming it was what made BM such an OP spec for BRF prog. Not that you could be expected to know this shit because you've probably never played BRF-BM in a progression environment. Either that or you were just shit at it if the only thought process you put into FF was using with BW.

- - - Updated - - -

I played BM during mythic BRF when BM was the go-to spec. And although Focus Fire use had it's place it was far from the main mechanic.
Hell, keeping up steady focus was harder than Focus Fire.

IMO the main mechanics were:
a) Gaming your AoE rotation
Max beast cleave up time + Kill Command as much as possible + Barrage on cooldown required WAY more effort than anything focus fire / frenzy related.

b) Gaming your BW
Making sure everything was good to go, so you can do max damage during BW. Pool focus before hand, make sure KC is off cooldown as you go into BW so you can use it 3 times during BW, not wasting FF 20 seconds before going into BW, etc.

Other than that it was pretty straight forward spec to be frank.

Edit:
Dont get me wrong. I had hopes that hunter specs would get a bit more depth. Im a bit disappointed with certain aspects too.
I just cant stand all the melodramatic whining about how the spec got so much worse, when its not all that different.

It was the fucking main mechanic. It doesn't matter if you think it was easy or not (although I'd absolutely adore looking at your logs or gameplay vid just to prove where you did it wrong). Your AoE rotation was literally just that, it was a fucking rotation. On 2 targets you focusdumped with Multis to keep up Beast Cleave as much as possible but used KC on cooldown still. On 3 targets you use Multi just enough to keep Beast Cleave up which is a focus positive rotation, and you sorta dumped excess focus into KC every few cycles.

Jesus christ your ignorance on the Focus Fire subject is frustrating. Did you just pop it whenever it was at 5 stacks? Whenever you popped BW? What the fuck did you do on Iron Maidens p3? Blackhand anything? Did you just play by intuition and thought that was good?

"Not wasting FF 20 seconds before going into BW", if you were at 5 stacks that's exactly what you'd fucking do. If you didn't, other breakoff points applied, I put this into a WeakAura at the time, you might have heard of it. If not, well either you're just fucking great at using it, or you just had no idea of what you didn't know (again, love to see your logs babe).

[Keyimin]

I nearly threw in that FF was so unimportant and simple there was a special WA made to deal with the various different conditions for using it but decided just to skip it for the "even if that's so" argument. Glad to see you weigh in that one, Azor lol.

[Freerunz]

And although Focus Fire use had it's place it was far from the main mechanic.

BM has always been 3 buttons. Focus fire was RNG.

i wasn't even going to bother getting in to.

I beging to understand why blizzard did it with BM in Legion... "Why we should care about competive class plays when people dont give a fuck?" Lets make braindead rotation without focus management and stacks."

It was the fucking main mechanic...

Full answer from one of the best hunters.

[ejpaints]

I don't know how many different ways this can be said before it sinks in: Most of us are not complaining about DPS numbers or viability (as it relates to Legion, not PTR pre-patch). We're complaining about our core gameplay mechanics, having much of what we know and love about the spec gutted, being turned into an energy class without a secondary resource, and generally finding it not fun.

I completely understand what most of the complaints are. What I'm saying is that I don't really feel like it's nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. I feel like I'm being just as active in my button pushing as I was in previous expansions.

The only thing that I've actually missed from time to time was my traps when I pulled too much, or my camo when I wanted to skip past something. In the case of the traps, I've simply gotten better at kiting without them in combination with accepting that I just need to pull a bit smaller than I'm used to. In the case of the camo, I can't skip stuff. It's annoying but I did fine before they added it, I'll be fine after.

My actual gameplay.... really not all that much different once I put a little effort into trying to learn it instead of trying to argue about it.

[The Stormbringer]

So, some of the changes aren't so bad, whereas some of them seem unnecessary. For example: what the hell happened to cobra shot? I can't generate Focus anymore? I have to sit around and wait for it to come back up manually without being able to bump it at all outside of a CD? Whose stupid idea was that? Where'd my traps go? Where did Camouflage go? Why can't I heal my pet anymore?

EDIT: Apparently Mend Pet just doesn't pop up unless you have the pet out.

EDIT #2: Less Hunter related, but WHY DID THEY REMOVE THE GLYPHS PAGE? I get that it's supposed to be rolled into your spellbook now, but how am I supposed to know what glyphs are available to my class and spec now? I have to go online to look it up. They literally made it LESS FUNCTIONAL.

[ejpaints]

Are you serious? Abilities are still here but without gameplay. You didnt mention "the core wod bm gameplay" with Focus Fire wich is the only one "fun" gameplay mechanic. So 5 abilities without any mechanic in legion is the same as before?

Can you answer on simple question: What is your vision in separating an avarage player from the best one? 3 buttons spell rotation with RNG procs?

Your argument about gutting the class revolves around Focus Fire being our core thing we revolved around? You realize that's only been the case recently right? You realize that prior to WoD Focus Fire at one point was so completely unimportant that guides, including Azor's stated it didn't really matter if you used it or not. So while I don't argue that it became an important part of our rotation, that is only something that has been true for this expansion, and only partially true for last expansion. Bringing up how I'm still mad about losing mana makes about as much sense as this argument does.

[Freerunz]

Your argument about gutting the class revolves around Focus Fire being our core thing we revolved around? You realize that's only been the case recently right? You realize that prior to WoD Focus Fire at one point was so completely unimportant that guides, including Azor's stated it didn't really matter if you used it or not. So while I don't argue that it became an important part of our rotation, that is only something that has been true for this expansion, and only partially true for last expansion. Bringing up how I'm still mad about losing mana makes about as much sense as this argument does.

The thing is that with focus management we lost the competive mechanic without any new. That what pissed me off. Doesnt matter how you performe and understand game mechanics of your class just push the buttons and follow your encounter.

[Keyimin]

I completely understand what most of the complaints are. What I'm saying is that I don't really feel like it's nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. I feel like I'm being just as active in my button pushing as I was in previous expansions.

The only thing that I've actually missed from time to time was my traps when I pulled too much, or my camo when I wanted to skip past something. In the case of the traps, I've simply gotten better at kiting without them in combination with accepting that I just need to pull a bit smaller than I'm used to. In the case of the camo, I can't skip stuff. It's annoying but I did fine before they added it, I'll be fine after.

My actual gameplay.... really not all that much different once I put a little effort into trying to learn it instead of trying to argue about it.

Perhaps it's not that different to you, which is fine, as you're just as entitled to your opinions about it as anyone else. However, some of us wholeheartedly disagree, and it isn't for a lack of "trying to learn it instead of trying to argue about it." I've written a fair bit both here and in the feedback forums about what I dislike, why I dislike it, and what could make it better. That isn't based on wanting to argue about it; it's based on playing it.

[Freerunz]

WHY DID THEY REMOVE THE GLYPHS PAGE?

Big glyphs has been removed. Only small cosmetic glyphs and they are used on spells.

[ejpaints]

Perhaps it's not that different to you, which is fine, as you're just as entitled to your opinions about it as anyone else. However, some of us wholeheartedly disagree, and it isn't for a lack of "trying to learn it instead of trying to argue about it." I've written a fair bit both here and in the feedback forums about what I dislike, why I dislike it, and what could make it better. That isn't based on wanting to argue about it; it's based on playing it.

Perhaps I'm just stubborn. Actually I know I'm stubborn. But, I don't really feel like BM spec is any simpler or less fun than any of the other specs they've pruned in the game. I don't feel like BM can ever be as bad as it was before the patch note that stated Kill command was going from 5 yards to 25 yards. Those were the dark days. The spec will never suck as bad as it did back then.

[Bepples]

In the case of the camo, I can't skip stuff. It's annoying but I did fine before they added it, I'll be fine after.

Every time Blizzard unnecessarily cuts good features from the game *cough* flying *cough* this is the excuse people give. Why do you feel the need to excuse them? If things like Camoflague were fun and weren't detrimental to the game why should BM be denied access to it (especially in favour of what is literally a shittier Binding Arrow; same duration, longer cooldown, only one target, requires pet in range)?

NOT DOING most of these changes and just keeping hunters similar to how they are on live would be both easier and a wiser decision. They wen't through a whole bunch of extra effort for a worse end product. We lose not just a giant amount of utility, but many very fun abilities that allowed for people who truly mastered the class to distinguish themselves from people who were just average at the class.

Blizzard should not be making half-assed changes and saying "it's not optimal, but it's fine" and you shouldn't be saying it for them. Any change needs a good reason and in Legion they are changing a whole lot for the sake of change, ESPECIALLY in class design, without considering whether they are actually improving the end product.