BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

The UK has been practicing aggressive negotiations for centuries, we are not new to it.

How do they want to be aggressive without being in a strong position?

[Acidbaron]

Most people are interested in the now, not what may happen in the future. Farage knew this, he spotted the gap in the political market that none of the other parties were willing to do anything about and exploited it.

Farage was not selling something that will benefit the whole country in 20 years time, he was selling them a fix for their troubles now, people are perfectly content with kicking the can down the road.

The here and now is what the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and EU utterly failed on providing a solution for and that is why we are out of the EU.

Yeah since short term politics work out so great, that reasoning does make sense isn't that short term thinking by brits politics the whole reason you have issues with keeping things as NHS sustained? To name just one thing.

Also 20 years, you are being highly optimistic here if the current position remains without any softening of the tone around it you'll see negative effects within the year, especially on the markets as they are highly reactionary to such things as they have always been.

[minteK917]

And when EU negotiates something they just roll over and die and we need new elections. That's why US already pushed TTIP and ACTA onto us.

To be fair the US does not really even try much with neither of these. Pacific is were its at for them. Trading with Europe is like a little cherry.

[Deleted]

What else would you call it when people come out and effectively say 'I don't care if the country gets poorer as long as it has fewer brown people!'.

The economic arguments for leaving were non-existent. What was in people's minds was immigration (although it's debatable what effect leaving the EU will really have on that).

WHO is saying that?

[Fadeslol]

There were a lot of perpetrators, eveidence in most cases was thin. Cologne acted too late, and Germany launched an investigation into what happened, like a state of law does. But if there isn't enough evidence, you cannot pronounce someone guilty, as disappointed as I am, that those people got away, that is how a court works.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/muslim-ch...ets-of-idaho/#!

Samething in the US. They know who did it but they want to cover it up. Worst part is they gang raped a 5 year old and its on video.

[Whiskeyjack WN]

EDIT: Chrcked your post history. You are from Ireland, not Northern Ireland which you stated yourself and only moved to the UK because of what the EU did to Ireland. The EU first started early 90's. So you didn't grow up in The Troubles you lying shit. Welcome to being the first on my fucking ignore list.

Fuck me you are not really that stupid are you? ok let me try to make this simple for you...

I'm from the border. grew up about 500 yards from it, went to school in the north. and people from the north are just as entitled as the south to call themselves irish and have an irish passport u twit....

And if you lived anywhere near the border you would know we move free across both and we grew up through the same shit during those times.

So let me make sure i have this right... you think because I moved to the UK only recently I must not have grown up through the troubles? I'm not allowed to leave a country once I reach a certain age? are you really that thick? fuck me no wonder the world thinks badly of the Irish when we have dipshits like you representing us.

Care to continue pointing out how little you actually know? or are you done making an absolute idiot of yourself?

[Stormdash]

How do they want to be aggressive without being in a strong position?

What is the weakness of their position? Go back to the criterion that one would have used for the many centuries of European history prior to the EU experiment. They have economic value, they have a strong military. More recent modern indicator, they are a nuclear power. It's comical that people think this is suddenly the former Rhodesia because it gave up on a bad idea that's not even a quarter century old.

[Deleted]

It is your responsibility as a voter to get educated on the matter there is plenty of sources around so far i'm being told it only started to become very polarized near the end hence the whole shooting that took place and it's not like time was lacking either, if you vote for a shitshow and later complain that you 'didn't know it' it doesn't absolve you from your neglectful behavior.

It's also horseshit that you need a high degree to understand how the EU functions what it can and can't do, what it costs you and what you get from it back. I believe most people just simply believed nothing bad could happen based on nationalistic pride, since that was thrown around quite a bit and also if you dismiss any negative scenario or any negative possible result of a brexit you were simply digging your head in the sand if that was the case.

Anyway, i want to thank those that voted for an exit cause long term this is a positive effect for Europe politically.

Wait so from the day we UK members were able to read we all should have picked up books and taught ourselves about the EU? It's like I said, no one was interested 12-24 months ago, a referendum wasn't even heard of for the most part, only the A level educated knew of it or the people in politics, what a fine job they have done messing things up already. People also forget that it was an A level educated twat (Cameron) that suggested we leave the EU to begin with, He planted the seed.

People can't call the Brexit voters idiots, over half the country thinks otherwise.

I like everyone else done what research I could from both sides and gave my choice. I am as educated on the subject as everyone else.

[Kalis]

So basically, he's Trump, but with more of that characteristic British uppityness.

We knew what Farage was pushing and everybody in mainstream politics ignored it.

He leads the furthest right of our mainstream right wing parties, many of the people who voted to leave are left wing, that is how much they fucked up. It is like Trump getting the Muslim and hispanic votes in the Presidential election, it should not be possible, but it just happened.

[Cybran]

The UK has been practicing aggressive negotiations for centuries, we are not new to it.

And look where that got you. After the first world war your greed created Hitler and the cesspool that is the middle East.

Today your greed and wrangling lost your economic future and billions.

How will your politicians fuck up next?

[Deleted]

Well done Brits, because of the lack of education and intelligence you ruined the life of many future generations in your own country. *applaud*
You managed to catapult the United Kingdom into a future 3. World country. Honestly besides banking there is nothing interessting about the UK.
Nothing that the EU needs from you.

There is and will be no return. The EU doesnt needed you anyways with your "special trade deals" and own currency, privileges no other country in the EU had! You all think you get any better deals after leaving the EU? Hell, no the rest of the EU is laughing at you, hoping you will suffer from the economic damage you've done to yourself and us. I personally hope the UK atleast will manage to leave as fast as possible. Im a little sad for Scotland and Ireland though.

[Acidbaron]

Knowledge of the history of Europe is how one comes to understand how myopically hilarious the idea of the EU as a long-term experiment in continental polity ever was. There are two futures for Europe, one in which the EU dissolves gradually into the sovereign nation-states that have thrived for centuries even while bloodily disagreeing from time to time, or the EU persisting long enough for those nation-states to be geographical trivia, artifacts in a borderless Eurabian nightmare.

Notice the list does not include "happy utopian pan-European fusion state".

Believing that as a single state you are more powerful in an ever globalized world with large world powers you are simply wrong. Not surprised to see the arabians being throw in your argument either, spotted that simplistic reasoning already in your first reply

Since the EU there has been no chance of war between the countries it's been there to maintain stability in the region, you claiming it used to be better makes this my very last reply to you since, well honestly i don't deal in fantasies not even on a friday, don't worry though time will tell and you're in for one nice lesson

[Deleted]

WHO is saying that?

Ive heard stuff like this in germany too. I am shocked because 10 years ago they wouldnt have dared to say this. Now we live in a society where hatred and racism are sayable.

You just need to listen long enough.

[Noradin]

The EU and UK are interwoven so closely that the EU will collapse if the UK does. Greece was nothing compared to the damage the UK can do and the EU will not take the chance of not coming to a deal that is acceptable to the UK.

The world economy cannot afford to let the UK continue to run this blackmail scheme forever.
It has to stop, the sooner the better for everyone.

[Mehrunes]

What is the weakness of their position? Go back to the criterion that one would have used for the many centuries of European history prior to the EU experiment. They have economic value, they have a strong military. More recent modern indicator, they are a nuclear power. It's comical that people think this is suddenly the former Rhodesia because it gave up on a bad idea that's not even a quarter century old.

And compared to EU they still have weaker economy, weaker military and less nukes. In this context, they are relatively weak. There's no going around this fact.

[Noradin]

No it's true. Why would the US support allies that don't do anything for us? If the UK does it fair share, it's more valuable than the EU.

The UK must do quite a lot to offset the damages it just accumulated.
The have just proven to be a threat to the US, not an ally.

[Deleted]

Yes, and I already saw the comments on that, how its the UK's decision when they declare their wish to leave and how the EU has to wait for them.
So because of that and because of the damage the UK already wreaked on the world with this vote I will petition my government to to call for an expulsion of the Uk from the EU if they do not make up their mind inside a month.
They got their vote and we respect it, they do not get to string us along even longer.

Wont be necessary - Cameron will show up on Tuesday, say hi, get asked about his intentions, and then they say article 50.
the clause read:

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

Official recognition of the result could count - and before any brexiter starts talking, this clause has never been used before, and 'notify' is not defined - They will have no trouble simply saying that it is this way.

[Macaquerie]

We knew what Farage was pushing and everybody in mainstream politics ignored it.

He leads the furthest right of our mainstream right wing parties, many of the people who voted to leave are left wing, that is how much they fucked up. It is like Trump getting the Muslim and hispanic votes in the Presidential election, it should not be possible, but it just happened.

I will say this, just from watching some video clips of Farage, he does have that stuffy British twat persona down pat. He's not exactly likable or charismatic, but he does have that air of authority that a lot of your actual elected leaders can't pull off. The guy acts as if he's already in charge whenever he speaks, it's no surprise that some people will believe him.

[Deleted]

Wait so from the day we UK members were able to read we all should have picked up books and taught ourselves about the EU? It's like I said, no one was interested 12-24 months ago, a referendum wasn't even heard of for the most part, only the A level educated knew of it or the people in politics, what a fine job they have done messing things up already. People also forget that it was an A level educated twat (Cameron) that suggested we leave the EU to begin with, He planted the seed.

People can't call the Brexit voters idiots, over half the country thinks otherwise.

I like everyone else done what research I could from both sides and gave my choice. I am as educated on the subject as everyone else.

Cameron planted the seed because of political interests. He was sure that the UK people wouldnt be suicidal.

He was wrong. And he knows it.

[Deleted]

Ive heard stuff like this in germany too. I am shocked because 10 years ago they wouldnt have dared to say this. Now we live in a society where hatred and racism are sayable.

You just need to listen long enough.

Names please. "Brown people" are not even from the EU.... The majority of EU migrants are white, if I was a racist, I would have supported the remain campaign as more white European migrants means less "brown" African migrants....