BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Elegiac]

You'll have to forgive the 48% of us who'd rather not see our country go through years of economic turmoil to come out on the other side no better.

Since you're such a stickler for 'democracy' you should just accept whatever comes your way.

[Draco-Onis]

who do I trust more:
18 year olds who are embracing hooliganism, drunkenness and media degrees or 60 year olds who have worked all their lives and lived through some of the harsh economic downturns of the world? Pretty easy choice

I think I have to question what kind of young people you have been hanging out with.

[Deleted]

Turkey will join, but not as quickly now. Sadly the UK Government was working with Turkey to get them in sooner.

Greece better never allow this to happen.

[Theodarzna]

You're looking at it emotionally and as if EU is a person.

Look at it logically and from POV of EU's interests.

The EU is a person, its made of people. Last I checked Junker was a man, well.... he looks mostly like a living man. I know Japan is good at building robots but is it that good?

Anyway, if the EU were to punish, it would cause internal dissent, and further fan the flames, it would confirm a lot about what the EU is in this age of popular unrest against established authority. How long until someone else wants a vote? Is EU institutional interest always in line with its citizens interests? That would be a serious question for the voting public. Also trying to ruin Britain would ruin Ireland whom would likely be the next to want to leave.

[Elegiac]

who do I trust more:
18 year olds who are embracing hooliganism, drunkenness and media degrees or 60 year olds who have worked all their lives and lived through some of the harsh economic downturns of the world? Pretty easy choice

The political and financial analysts who are pretty much universally saying that 'this is a bad idea'.

[Hyve]

Oh great now we see the true nature of the british (at least the leavers). If we don´t get it our way we will couse you sooo much trouble and problem till you have to give us our will.
Great just let this sink.
So who again was the bully in this whole negotiation thing?

You seem to be taking this way too personally. It was a democratic vote of a nation, about whether or not the want to remain in the E.U., it wasn't about whether or not you're a loser or not. So please, try not to take it as such.

Also, I will add, I'm not talking about being childish, but if the U.K. doesn't get a deal that's acceptable, of course they're not going to just accept it, walk away and deal with it. We're going to sit down, renegotiate, change ideas, change tactics, filibuster if we need too, and much more.

You seem to have developed this hatred of the UK over this, and I'm not sure why.

[Noradin]

It's weird seeing so many people talk about how great the EU is but then also talking about it as if it's basically the Mafia and needs to punish nations that step out of line, so the others know their place.

You are confusing "punishing" with saveguarding its member states against the interests of agressive outside forces.

[Deleted]

It's not foolish but only logical if any EU politician wants to keep their jobs, they have every incentive to make it as painful as possible for the British people.

No it is foolish to make it as painful as possible.

The EU needs to tread a fine line here so that they can both be seen as having a tough attitude towards members that leave, whilst simultaneously being shown to be the benevolent ruling body that they assert themselves to be.

If they make it too painful, they won't get a deal, and it will only add fuel to the fire of the right wing anti EU political parties that are currently sprouting up like wildfire accross Europe by showing that they will go after a nation for a democractic choice.

If they make it too good of a deal for the UK, they will get more people wishing to leave.

[Elegiac]

You seem to have developed this hatred of the UK over this, and I'm not sure why.

Because a significant portion of the British people have revealed themselves to be nothing but whiny do-nothings wanting to leech off the benefits of an agreement without bearing any of the responsibility.

[Deleted]

There are no 'rules of democracy'.

I meant that as a shortcut.

I mean you cannot tell me to go do this and that and that I have to vote when my right is to not vote. It's a privilage, right and not obligation.

[Floopa]

The political and financial analysts who are pretty much universally saying that 'this is a bad idea'.

bad idea or not the public voted and the majority said leave. it's done. there's nothing more now. time to pack out suitcases and watch in glee as trump makes America great again

[Mister K]

Can someone summarize the positives and negatives of Leaving?
Any 5-10 year predictions?

I have been following this thread slowly and combining information from the web/news and well still mind boggled. I mean I have an idea but still...

[psyquest]

Some people dont realise that the EU will not just let things roll as if nothing happened.

To stop any contagion there is going to be no concessions whatsoever to the UK. Do you seriously think that they will risk giving the message "hey just leave the EU, you ll get a better deal" ? dont be dumb.

Also this is a certainty: if the UK wants access to the EU market like any other current member, there is NO WAY it will do so without accepting the free movement of people from the EU as well.

I

[Deleted]

Since you're such a stickler for 'democracy' you should just accept whatever comes your way.

I have accepted it, and I fully support it.

Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

[Deleted]

You seem to be taking this way too personally. It was a democratic vote of a nation, about whether or not the want to remain in the E.U., it wasn't about whether or not you're a loser or not. So please, try not to take it as such.

Also, I will add, I'm not talking about being childish, but if the U.K. doesn't get a deal that's acceptable, of course they're not going to just accept it, walk away and deal with it. We're going to sit down, renegotiate, change ideas, change tactics, filibuster if we need too, and much more.

You seem to have developed this hatred of the UK over this, and I'm not sure why.

Apparently a % seem to think a democratic vote = personally shitting on every EU resident

[Deleted]

How considerate of the EU to let it's member nations be able to leave.

>.>

As if the US would allow Texas to leave.

[caervek]

The political and financial analysts who are pretty much universally saying that 'this is a bad idea'.

1: They said that in 1992 when the EU was formed.

2: Remember that massive crash in 2008 they predicted, and the ones before that?

[Voix]

Both need each other...

GB's GDP is 17% of the EU. But 50% of its trade is with the EU.
EU would recover if GB would sink in the ocean. GB without EU...not so much.

As a Business owner, money > everything, do you really think for example German car manufacturers won't export to their second biggest importer? The naivety in this thread is astounding, we're all greedy pricks, the lot of us. We all want money, we're not going to no trade because the UK "hurt" Europes feelings, whatever makes the bank balance go up is exactly what large businesses will do.

Do you think economies like Greece that export 0.3% of German cars matter to these manufacturers or the UK that eats up a fifth of their stock?

Source for car figures: https://next.ft.com/content/f6cda050...a-398b2169cf79

[Deleted]

The EU is a person, its made of people. Last I checked Junker was a man, well.... he looks mostly like a living man. I know Japan is good at building robots but is it that good?

Anyway, if the EU were to punish, it would cause internal dissent, and further fan the flames, it would confirm a lot about what the EU is in this age of popular unrest against established authority. How long until someone else wants a vote? Is EU institutional interest always in line with its citizens interests? That would be a serious question for the voting public. Also trying to ruin Britain would ruin Ireland whom would likely be the next to want to leave.

No. EU is organizational body. That's not the same.

[Mehrunes]

I'm a Remain supporter, but let's be honest here, it's done, and it's time to just get on with it.

The U.K. is (and it still is) the 2nd / 3rd largest economy and the E.U. is not going to risk losing that when it comes to trade. Whatever the E.U. loses from this, they'll probably supplement in some manner with Trade Tariffs, but the reality is that Europe will make a deal with the U.K., because despite being in or out, we do both need each other.

EU won't lose it either way because the UK has no alternative. What are they going to replace 45% of their trade with, Canada?

My only hope is that through clever negotiations, and a good work ethic in the U.K. that we essentially turn into Australia on the border of Europe. We have a good strong economy founded on trade in and out the Europe (among other places, of course), we have a stable migration system that promotes those with workable and useable skills to enter the country, and that the standard of living can rise due to the option for the U.K. to now be able to fully dictate competition rules whereas in the E.U. that wasn't allowed.

But I thought job terking was a menace? And you want more of that menace to enter?

I don't think the U.K. is a racist bigoted nation, and I don't think you can claim that's the case because of a leave campaign. Migration is a concern in the EU. Turkey joining is a concern, Greek bailouts are a concern, the stability of Portugal, Spain & Italy are concerns, and they're concerns that many of the Leave people wanted to voice through a vote to leave.

So is an alien invasion. And weirdly enough, UK wasn't against this idea in the past. Internal EU migration is the cornerstone of EU and outside migration doesn't really affect UK thanks to their opt outs. The stability of southern EU members will only get worse thanks to UK and since they'll have to remain in the EEA if they don't want to trade with the Moon instead, they will be affected by it regardless of whether they are in or out.

I don't hold a grudge, I don't think it's the worst thing to happen to our nation, and I do believe that with the correct leadership, with a better framework of competitive taxation for corporations, and a good negotiation and deal with the E.U. can see us prosper. Trade between the EU & UK will not come to an end, the deals will be made and the UK will do what we've always done, we've just got on with it.

Taxation is already up to member states and whatever deal your hardcore negotiators will manage to secure will be worse than the current state. Nothing but prosperity.