BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Kalador]

At the end of day if we leave we leave BUT what we did was kick EU in the balls and TOLD things need to change.
IF the EU breaks up so be it then we can start again and make it right.

tell that to yourself if it help you... you kick a wall and it cracked but it's pointless to say you did so it would change. You're not in it anymore why would they change for you. If the EU break UK will get hit by the crisis like everybody else... and it won't reform for a long long time... the aftermath would be there for to long, no one would try again to see it fail for generations.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/simonnricketts/s...55676413845504

That is a video of the guy i quoted from twitter earlier on sky news about "they have no plan after brexit".

Also the laughter from the guys filming

I didn't think it was possible, but we have gone beyond being beyond fucked.

Were into some sort of hellrealm where being fucked is a distant happy memory.

[Deleted]

Yeah all the retards who are claiming that the UK should be punished for leaving, and that the UK should retain absolutely nothing when it leaves the EU.

You confusing "consequences" with "punishment".

[Deleted]

That is a video of the guy i quoted from twitter earlier on sky news about "they have no plan after brexit".

Also the laughter from the guys filming

TBH I dont think any or our parties had any plan ready if we did vote to leave.

[Deleted]

At the end of day if we leave we leave BUT what we did was kick EU in the balls and TOLD things need to change.
IF the EU breaks up so be it then we can start again and make it right.

Yet, the EU reacted fast and already nominated the negotiator while the UK is headless right now. If anything, this will be an example of how not to bluff with such important decisions and it might make the EU stronger at the end.

[Deleted]

You confusing "consequences" with "punishment".

Just think about one thing if hitler had won this would not be happening.

[Deleted]

You confusing "consequences" with "punishment".

No i'm not.

I know what the consequences are.

People in this thread are confusing "any sort of deal with the UK" with the "EU bending and letting the UK take what it wants"

But look dude, i'm gonna level with you, its been a baffling and funny arguing with you, but my brain can't handle it in anymore, so i'm gonna put this last post to you then put you on ignore, for my own sanity, because your flip flopping between issues is gonna give me a stroke soon.

[Independent voter]

While some Emerging Markets, such as Russia, may seem to come out ahead in this game having already devalued significantly, their interaction with commodity prices in most cases remains key.
Russia (and China) do benefit from a more fractured Western bloc in line with their ambitions for a “divide and conquer” strategy. In particular, the absence of the more hawkish UK in future sanctions discussions on Russia is likely to tip the balance in favour of a resolution in line with the more dovish view growing in Germany in particular. The positive impact of this may be offset by weakening demand in Europe, but we should see Russia become even more assertive as a result.
Even absent China cracking, we remain negative on commodities and oil in particular through the summer as Canadian and potentially Nigerian crude comes back online and demand flattens out, with crude potentially hitting $35 once more. I remain very bullish on crude into the end of next year after a summer swoon, while JP remains in the “new normal” of a lower oil price camp.
Other Emerging Markets that benefit from lower commodity prices, such as Turkey, that have had weak currencies, are unfortunately moving in the precise wrong direction in terms of governance and state interference for positive performance of assets.

https://governmentsandmarkets.com/wi...3be#.bgu0puu4u

Good long article, people with business and economic sense predicting the future

[Noradin]

I can buy the Scotland thing, but the Ireland thing is quite a stretch. No way they are pissed enough to do that. It's not like they can join the EU immediately either, they'd have to declare sovereignty fist imho and then apply like any new member. By the time everything is ready there would be a lot of questions in regards to their economic stability because the interim will be quite rough either way. Maybe if they'd get a "fuck you England" special offer from the rest of the EU, but I'm not seeing the rest of the EU seriously do that either just to piss of the poor sod that has to pick up the crap Cameron left behind.

That might not take longer than the time the UK would need to get their side straighted out.

[bufferunderrun]

seem that nearly every prominent brexiter is now backpedaling hard on promises done during the campaign wonder if some of those who voted for brexit feel scammed.

pre-brexit

post brexit http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...was-a-mistake/



sum it up

[psyquest]

Seeing how the brexiter are statistically from rural area + older people + less likely to be educated, I highly doubt other countries will risk giving morons that dont know what s good for them the possibility to hurt an entire country...

Voting for brexit without knowing what the EU is (evidence being the spike in searches about "what is the EU" AFTER the vote) is moronic. People followed an anti establishment vote. Even areas that had MASSIVE subventions from the EU voted to leave. what can I say but /facepalm /lol

The EU cannot be hold hostage now because of Tory in fighting or the implosion of labour. The EU will want a quick solution because the markets cannot stay with incertainty too long otherwise it will hurt the other EU countries. It is not a matter of being mean to the UK. At that level, it is not childish play like on this thread or the idiotic level of the uninformed that voted out. It is professional that do the job and experts, not "nazis" like the brexit camp dared called them, no: experts.

also to the people that believed the 350 million a week to go to the NHS instead: Farage denied it live on tv. lol

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

http://qz.com/717182/a-brexit-conspi...ds-himself-in/

In the end, it might be possible that England be saved from itself by a Scottish parlement veto, if it holds any legislative legal right to do so.

[Noradin]

38% voted leave EU, 45% voted yes to independence...

No.

Only 38% voted to leave the EU
45% voted yes to independence despite being told it would mean to leave the EU

They likely would have had more votes for independence but they wanted to stay in the EU.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Not sure how much you looked into it, the deal the 4 exceptions you mention have isn't acceptable to the leave people so that deal won't happen - it WILL be worse.

TeamLeave had conceded that they wouldn't be able to deliver on the immigration policy even before the vote count had been completed. As to what would be acceptable, who the fuck knows what they want. THEY don't even fucking know what they want. When asked about their plan, they said that Number 10 (i.e. TeamRemain) should have come up with a plan. The referendum will either be ignored and the Status Quo restored, or the UK will join EFTA. I don't see any other realistic alternative.

[Slant]

At the end of day if we leave we leave BUT what we did was kick EU in the balls and TOLD things need to change.
IF the EU breaks up so be it then we can start again and make it right.

"Make it right"? What does that mean? Restarting the EU project won't change the parameters. France and Germany will still be the biggest bloc in the EU. The UK still won't want to play with anyone else, because they disrespect everyone except when Germany and France bully them and the smaller countries will still only play ball if their influence is disproportionally higher than their actual population is.

And ignorant people will still have nationalistic sentiments and oppose everything that goes beyond their borders. You can't make small minds better just by willing it to be better.

[Mayhem]

And i've been saying that the UK will be in a worse position if we Brexit for as long as there has been an argument about Brexit.

So once again and hopefully for the final time, whats your point?

Maybe the word need get´s often misintepreted, especially since it comes across as if one therefore has the upper hand.

[Cosmic Janitor]

TeamLeave had conceded that they wouldn't be able to deliver on the immigration policy even before the vote count had been completed. As to what would be acceptable, who the fuck knows what they want. THEY don't even fucking know what they want. When asked about their plan, they said that Number 10 (i.e. TeamRemain) should have come up with a plan. The referendum will either be ignored and the Status Quo restored, or the UK will join EFTA. I don't see any other realistic alternative.

I've got some good laughs out of this so far, but seriously, returning to status quo would make this one of the most expensive jokes in history, even ignoring all the civil unrest this has caused. I have to wonder if backing down really is an option.

[Deleted]

I've got some good laughs out of this so far, but seriously, returning to status quo would make this one of the most expensive jokes in history, even ignoring all the civil unrest this has caused. I have to wonder if backing down really is an option.

Including the death of a prominent woman and mother.

[Lorianus]

I've got some good laughs out of this so far, but seriously, returning to status quo would make this one of the most expensive jokes in history, even ignoring all the civil unrest this has caused. I have to wonder if backing down really is an option.

I dont know if this was common in britain before brexit but there are now all over twitter and online news sites articles on some nuts demonstrating and vandalizing immigrant centers, mosques, people of colour getting harassed ect.

As said i dont know if that was "common" before or just gets blown up now by the media to ride on the brexit hype.

[Slant]

Yeah all the retards who are claiming that the UK should be punished for leaving, and that the UK should retain absolutely nothing when it leaves the EU.

You know, the emotional fools who are treating this like some sort of break up instead of an opportunity for change, that i've been arguing with since the Brexit happened in this very thread.

It's not "punishment". It's the consequence of the UK going out. That literally means "going out". The whole point of this was to sever the ties. It wasn't a vote to "go out a little bit" or "go out on everything we don't like" or anything else, it was "leave". The referendum and the entire debate is a bit binary on this. It's in or out. So, now they decided for "out", which is fine. And the next step they do is talk about what parts of the whole deal they get to retain. No, that's not what you wanted. You wanted to retain bascially no ties. That's what you guys voted for. Now you get it, now you sever ties. And then we'll discuss how to move onwards from there. And this means you're effectively not a member state, do not get to enjoy the benefits of being a member state. You're practically OUT.

That you lot now realise "Oh shit, this means this and that and those things are gone..." is cute, but a bit late. You should've thought about that before you made the decision to go out. Everyone and their dog has been telling you about these consequences months in advance, repeatedly, ad nauseum. They told you these were the consequences. You don't get to call this "punishment" for something to happen that you were warned about before the fact. This is not emotion, this is part of the automatism that the UK set in motion.

Blame anyone you like, but this one time, you're really responsible for whatever happens to you. This is part of the glorified sovereigntiy and free will that you lot cherished so much in this referendum. This is part of you sovereignly fucking yourself up. We told you this wouldn't be pretty. We warned you. You simply do not get to play the victim now. So fuck off with that bullshit already and man up.

[Deleted]

I don't think you hitting the mark.
Some things can be decided with simple majority rule. Other things need to be decided with super majority rule.
How so? If for nothing else, other than prevent greater controversy, or even outright civil war conditions.
If you got a super majority vote, chances are slim to none that something bigger comes afterwards. With split decision results, you're always in danger.
What should be decided how?
Simple actually.. Things that are on term cycles don't need a super majority vote.
Exceptional, not seldom once in a lifetime decisions that effect the nation possibly for a hundred years if not longer, ought to be decided by super majority vote.
Even the otherwise shitty US democracy has that part right.

Then they should stipulate that a super majority vote is needed to exit before the actual vote. Preposterous to come in after losing and saying it should've or ought to have after the fact. That's not have it works and I'm damn happy that is the case.

Then again i predicted that UK would not be allowed to leave by the powers that be no matter what the votes say. I'm happy to be proven wrong in this case but the cynic in me know better.