Subs: Will they start reporting #s again?

[Caolela]

So you disagree with the direction the game is going? Good. Don't play it. We'll continue to enjoy it with *our* friends. Cheers.

That might be OK if we could get a refund or percentage back on the product we paid for but is no longer what it was when purchased, or if we could use the product we paid for w/o having to pay a sub fee (or grinding gold for a token).

[Grenzstein]

Lots and lots of people i know are coming back. I think it'll be a good xpack and it'll bring back lots of players.

[Unholyground]

Lots and lots of people i know are coming back. I think it'll be a good xpack and it'll bring back lots of players.

It is already better than WoD

[Volitar]

I hope not, every time they post sub numbers there is a shit storm on the forums but I also think its kind of embarrassing how they have to hide sub numbers now.

[Zyky]

They never will because then they can blanket the playerbase with the lie of "our subs are up!" Also subs can't use the loss of subs against Blizzard if they don't report it. So I highly doubt they'll ever do it again.

[Tharkkun]

That might be OK if we could get a refund or percentage back on the product we paid for but is no longer what it was when purchased, or if we could use the product we paid for w/o having to pay a sub fee (or grinding gold for a token).

It's a service just like your gym membership. If you decide to stop playing then you cancel your subscription.

When a gym upgrades their machines and/or removes the unpopular ones which you might like you don't get a refund. You cancel if it upsets you. The same thing works for a MMO. This isn't a static single player game.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you work that out? WoD sold 3.3 million copies within 24 hours where did the other 6.7million sales come from?

Whether you were talking about net or gross profit your figures simply do not stack up, if you meant sales instead of profit your figures might be slightly more accurate although you have still not explained how Legion will out sell previous expansions despite having a significantly smaller customer base.

Where did I say they will sell 10 million copies during the first 24 hours, let alone the first month? I didn't.

But you also don't see the number of boxes/upgrades sold to date. We only have data on the initial burst. But you should be able to deduce that if subscriptions jumped back to 10 million for a couple months there's a damn good argument that they purchased WoD. Plus all the people that purchased the game over the last 1.5 years. Those box sales alone fund development for the next expansion. The monthly income from subs and other 1 time purchases is just icing on the cake.

[Steve French]

It's simple, if the numbers look good we'll see them. If they don't, things will stay the same.

[Pann]

Where did I say they will sell 10 million copies during the first 24 hours, let alone the first month? I didn't.

But you also don't see the number of boxes/upgrades sold to date. We only have data on the initial burst. But you should be able to deduce that if subscriptions jumped back to 10 million for a couple months there's a damn good argument that they purchased WoD. Plus all the people that purchased the game over the last 1.5 years. Those box sales alone fund development for the next expansion. The monthly income from subs and other 1 time purchases is just icing on the cake.

I never mentioned anything about timescales I simply asked where did the additional 6.7 million sales, that you claim were made, come from.

Quite honestly you have no idea what you're talking about. How do you suppose that 10million copies of WoD were sold when Blizzard have never claimed to have sold that many copies, their P&L shows no such income and, perhaps most importantly, approximately half of their customers don't have to buy expansions?

[Caolela]

It's a service just like your gym membership. If you decide to stop playing then you cancel your subscription.

When a gym upgrades their machines and/or removes the unpopular ones which you might like you don't get a refund. You cancel if it upsets you. The same thing works for a MMO. This isn't a static single player game.

All well and cute for Blizz, except that the gym probably didn't lie or mislead during the previous year about what their "upgrades" would be before you bought the next yearly membership. Then when you go in you find it bears little resemblance to what they had advertised.

Keep fanboying.

[Shibito]

Keep hating its funny how obsessed haters are at wow rising in subs in legion.

[Relapses]

All well and cute for Blizz, except that the gym probably didn't lie or mislead during the previous year about what their "upgrades" would be before you bought the next yearly membership. Then when you go in you find it bears little resemblance to what they had advertised.

Keep fanboying.

Can you have an original thought that isn't "HURR DURR BLIZZ SUX U DUM FANBOI"? Please? You're like a walking encyclopedia of everything wrong with these forums.

[Caolela]

Can you have an original thought that isn't "HURR DURR BLIZZ SUX U DUM FANBOI"? Please? You're like a walking encyclopedia of everything wrong with these forums.

What wrong with these forums are the idiots inhabiting them that can't face simple facts, even when they bite them on the ass.

[Relapses]

What wrong with these forums are the idiots inhabiting them that can't face simple facts, even when they bite them on the ass.

One of these days you'll learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. Hopefully it'll happen shortly after you hit puberty.

[Caolela]

One of these days you'll learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. Hopefully it'll happen shortly after you hit puberty.

Hopefully your ilk will learn when you're being lied to by a bunch of carnival barkers whose only concern is to separate you from your money for the least amount in return. And they don't give a shit how they do it.

Welcome to the real world of grown-ups and corporate greed. Activision/Blizzard is no different just because they make video games. It's just 'product' to them, like any other widget. If some of you were not so naive, you'd understand why they have a former lawyer (Ion/Watcher) in charge of development, or why they allowed asshats like Jay Wilson to do what he did to D3 and WoW, or Holinka with Ashran and now Legion PvP. The list goes on.

Millions know the many times Blizz has made claims or promises and later reneged or not delivered, or simply pulled a ninja. No opinion needed since those are facts. You might have realized that's why we have these "Will they start reporting sub #s again?" threads - if you weren't still living in kindergarten fairy tales.

GL, Skippy!

[Kolvarg]

Hopefully your ilk will learn when you're being lied to by a bunch of carnival barkers whose only concern is to separate you from your money for the least amount in return. And they don't give a shit how they do it.

!!! Don't drink water!! They don't care about your thirst, they just want to take your money!!! Stop giving them your money!!! Don't buy any food either, they couldn't give a fuck if you die of hunger!! And don't get me started on ISPs those bastards. How could you be so weak to give in to those greedy corporate bastards taking your money for that so called "internet" that's merely a product to them. Go cancel your service, NOW!

(PS: If they wanted to have a specialist in getting money out of people with a videogame in charge of development, they'd probably get a psychologist, not a former lawyer)

[Bosen]

No. It's become unhealthy social bait for the nay sayers. Blizzard's doing everyone a favor,except the hate monger trolls,of course.

[Hunter Gnome]

I think the fundamental issue is how long those subs actually last. When you look at where subs were at the end of each expac vs where they started in the next, you get a dramatic look at hype marketing:



Essentially, WoW currently has fewer subs than it did in late 2005. If current subs are above 3M, I would be shocked. But look at the hype leading into TBC and Wrath, and compare it to the hype leading into Cata, MoP, and WoD. Draenor was the largest spike by far losing almost 3.3M players just in its first quarter. The question is, will Legion look the exact same way on paper? We'll find out. I'll be subbed, but how long that lasts depends on how much the game holds my interest.

[Caolela]

(PS: If they wanted to have a specialist in getting money out of people with a videogame in charge of development, they'd probably get a psychologist, not a former lawyer)

You must be under the delusion that Blizz isn't completely aware of the psychology of 'carrot on a stick' and 'delayed rewards' in gaming, or well-versed in the art of public relations spin-meistering. They aren't making a product because "Blizz cares about us!". You do realize that Blizzard North is long gone, right? They're doing it to please shareholders at every 3-month quarterly report.

[Kolvarg]

You must be under the delusion that Blizz isn't completely aware of the psychology of 'carrot on a stick' and 'delayed rewards' in gaming, or well-versed in the art of public relations spin-meistering. They aren't making a product because "Blizz cares about us!". You do realize that Blizzard North is long gone, right? They're doing it to please shareholders at every 3-month quarterly report.

Just because I disagree with an extremist, doesn't mean my opinion is on the opposite extreme.

Sure they are aware of carrot on a stick psychology. That wasn't even the point. And yet they've actually moved fairly away from a bunch of skinnerbox-like mechanics and/or reduced their intensity and longevity. The reasons they did that are arguable, and honestly just speculation. Just like saying everything that Blizzard is now is corporate greed: speculation; your personal thoughts on what is behind the so called facts you mention.

No, Blizzard is no saint. But Blizzard isn't a living entity. Yes, their goal as a corporation is to make money. So does pretty much every other full-time and long-time game developer's goal. Should we stop playing videogames completly because of that? So is almost everyone else's goal from any activity that might work as a profession in our society. Should we all turn into hermits or isolated self-sustained societies as to avoid giving money to people who want our money? No thanks.

Their goal as a company being making money doesn't mean there aren't true hard working people under the Blizzard name who you are dismissing simply because they are part of the company, despite them probably loving what they do and wanting the best for their games and the players much more than you might ever imagine.

Yes, Blizzard as a company wants our money. Yes, if it didn't want our money, and if that somehow worked and they still managed to live while working full-time on their games, their games would probably be better for the players. That doesn't mean their products aren't good, even if you do not enjoy them.

(Also, it's actually good for the players for game companies to care about the money and to have a solid business plan at least to some extent, especially in an MMO's case, otherwise they'll just go bankrupt and stop developing).

[Caolela]

^ So, it's the usual fallback excuse that "their goal as a corporation is to make money"? An embezzler's goal is to make money too. Or any merchant who sells an item falsely hyped. Or a guy doing 3-Card Monty on the street. Or any number of bullshitters that you can name.

Yeah we all want to make money. Duh. Water is wet too.

Our concern as consumers is to get the best value for the product/service we want. It's not in our best interests to support a company that increases profit by deception or making the products it sells worse or of lesser value than it was - just because that company wants to "make money". Their profit margins are their problem, not ours.