"Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism."

[Emjay18]

Remember how more women than men graduate college now and all that jazz?

Do you also remember how the late 70s/early 80s was the beginning of the self-help, "finding myself", Gordon Gecko-seems-cool, I'm in it for myself and I'll do whatever it takes phenomenon had a profound effect on American culture, turning both genders (but mostly men) into anti-social jerks that could never seem to figure out why pure self-interest has made them into bitter and lonely people running a perpetual rat race.... never bothering to find happiness?
What you witness today is the same scenario played out on the red team instead of the blue team. You treat everyone outside your immediate circle as hostile, you take a basic, workable concept and use it as a bludgeon to get your way as much as possible, and you hold the self above all else. The results are predictable, as they were the first time us dudes did it -- the only thing that has changed is the wallpaper's color.

Take, for example, slut shaming from men. Rather than actually empower ladies to recognize that what other strangers think of you is largely irrelevant, the current MO is to more or less scold the men. While it does have the effect of holding a guy accountable for what he says, it doesn't make a woman feel better. You can hold a guy accountable AND empower someone with the former.
Hen cackling slut shaming, like someone earlier pointed out, appears this way like I described as well. The backstabbing, gossiping, the perpetual race to put your peers down to climb over them, the rush to make that extra dollar, the thrill of taking someone's partner away and winning at all costs no matter what...... this is the result.


Women have made strides and are now entering the same spheres us males have been in, and now women too are beginning to act like a lot of men did and still do to this day -- and that's the problem.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It would be so nice if people like you would wake up and realize that you are actually a part of the problem. In fact, no, you're the one causing the problem. You're bunching up all gamers with your insulting, hateful shit there, and it doesn't hold water for a single second. Yes, there are most likely gamers who are assholes and hate women, but that's true for any group of people. There are actual feminists who are assholes and who demean women just as bad as anyone else.

It's men like you who women actually need to be wary of. You and your ilk have risen to the top in who actually mistreats the female gender the most. You're the ones shutting women up constantly, speaking for them, speaking on their behalf, and spewing this nonsense bullshit propaganda about gamers, not using any kind of a qualifier like "some" or "few", but simply "gamers", meaning "all gamers". You people are the ones stepping into the limelight and suppressing the message from actual feminist women.

I'm glad there are strong women out there, who when they meet you, scoff at you and throw you aside, because that's what you deserve for your hateful ways.

Is this one of those "Oh my god why do women always choose assholes" type of thing and you think I'm one of those assholes? Or is this something else?

You seem to be very emotional, and accusing me of doing things I do not actually do. Perhaps calm down first. I don't speak of all gamers, merely the ones who were a few short years ago constantly whining about the friend zone and who now have moved on to complaining about feminism.

At the time, I thought I'd be relieved to see the friend zone whine threads go away, but what they've been replaced by is something far more cringe worthy.

[Deleted]

I don't speak of all gamers, merely the ones

Then understand that you're required to qualify your bullshit by "some" or "few" or something more specific, instead of just "gamers", which means "all gamers".

[Cthulhu 2020]

The pure unadulterated irony of the "Not all Feminists are like that!" crowd doing a broad brush on someone else is both amusing and terrifying in that "My god there is no self awareness here!" kind of way.

It was also deliberate. Seeing people who classify feminists as hive mind throw tantrums about being generalized is delicious delicious irony. And it happens every time.

[Deleted]

Also, can we please have feminists who are women, talking about feminism, and the (us) men shut the fuck up?

[Bollocks]

You actually still believe it started because guys don't like girls that have sex.

Amazing.

Eh if it was about ethics in gaming journalism, why is no one raising awarness of paid reviews? or the many special events in which reviewers are sent to try the game, which are hosted by the owners of the game they are reviewing? I see none of this issues being paid attention by this so called movement, instead they focus on meaningless stuff. Blizzard removes a pose: "OMG SJWS CENSORING DEVS". Even when you visit KiA which is the main advocator of the gamergate movement their front page is filled by news that are tangencially related to videogames and instead choose to focus on the boogeyman that so called SJWS have been turned into.

[Theodarzna]

Also, can we please have feminists who are women, talking about feminism, and the (us) men shut the fuck up?

Why? Does it not effect everyone? Should women who aren't feminists talk? Men who are Feminists? Men who aren't? I mean why?

[Deleted]

Since when do you believe in special privileges for women?

I believe in women speaking for women, as I always have.

Why? Does it not effect everyone? Should women who aren't feminists talk? Men who are Feminists? Men who aren't? I mean why?

I believe in women speaking for themselves. It is not right for men leading the fight for women's rights. Us men support women, of course, but women lead the fight, and women speak for themselves.

[Deleted]

I was unaware that posting on MMO-C constituted leading anything.

If it was only happening on MMOC, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. It's also happening on mainstream media though.

[Spectral]

I believe in women speaking for themselves. It is not right for men leading the fight for women's rights. Us men support women, of course, but women lead the fight, and women speak for themselves.

In the context of the USA or EU nations, which rights do you feel that women need to be fighting for at present?

[Theodarzna]

I believe in women speaking for women, as I always have.



I believe in women speaking for themselves. It is not right for men leading the fight for women's rights. Us men support women, of course, but women lead the fight, and women speak for themselves.

None of us are leading much of anything,

I mean, its a forum discussion. As @Nixx put it, its just a forum, nobody here female or male has any importance to this movement.

I am a woman but often find myself at odds with most Feminists and Feminism, in terms of my opinions just don't mesh well with it. If this movement claims to be the avatar of all women, I think all women should have a voice. And if it claims to be ALSO dealing with men's issues than the men should have a say in directing this ship IMHO.

But this is MMOC-OT, none of us are that important.

[Spectral]

But this is MMOC-OT, none of us are that important.

Now that is some damn truth.

[Deleted]

And if it claims to be ALSO dealing with men's issues than the men should have a say in directing this ship IMHO.

Of course, but that's not the problem here. The problem are the men who are only having the say in what women should do, and not allowing women to speak, and most often because of some misguided hero delusion.

Obviously women aren't going to run men's lives. But, similarly, men shouldn't be running women's lives either. Let both sides lead their own fronts and stay the fuck out of the other side.

[Elegiac]

In the context of the USA or EU nations, which rights do you feel that women need to be fighting for at present?

Well I'd say abortion since it's constantly under threat in the United States, but I'm aware that you're pointing out Syd doesn't understand what Third Wave feminism actually is.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well I'd say abortion since it's constantly under threat in the United States, but I'm aware that you're pointing out Syd doesn't understand what Third Wave feminism actually is.

Every time I point this out, I get a cacophony of "NUH UH"s despite the most recent supreme court happenings.

[Deleted]

Did you make sure to confer with at least a dozen women and draw a consensus opinion that they wanted you to be vocal about telling other males to shut up before you started telling other males to shut up for the benefit of women?

No, see, some things just are universal, like the fact that men should shut up about feminism, unless specifically called upon by other women to speak.

[Spectral]

No, see, some things just are universal, like the fact that men should shut up about feminism, unless specifically called upon by other women to speak.

Just to be clear, should women shut up about men's things? Should Asian people shut up about white people business? The other ~99% plus should refrain from commenting on trans things?

I'm having trouble keeping up with which opinions are kosher.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make any sense at all, given the topic at hand here...

So for all you know, the majority of feminists are perfectly OK with it and you're just contradicting their wishes without even having the
respect to confer with them first before announcing to the world how they feel, thus disempowering them and providing a perfect example of male oppression of women.

Male oppression of women is white knighters, taking on the cause of women, because "women can't handle it", or "women need our help" or "I should really do this because it's right even though it's not my business at all" and so on. If you can't see it, that's not my problem. Talk to women about it.

- - - Updated - - -

"Let me open this door for you."

"Let me fight this fight for you."

[Post]

Eh if it was about ethics in gaming journalism, why is no one raising awarness of paid reviews?

What started the whole deal is related to conflicts of interest and scummy practices like this...

or the many special events in which reviewers are sent to try the game, which are hosted by the owners of the game they are reviewing? I see none of this issues being paid attention by this so called movement

Who is supposed to host them?

instead they focus on meaningless stuff.

Like ethics in games journalism right?

Blizzard removes a pose: "OMG SJWS CENSORING DEVS".

Some people didn't like that, luckily people can be against multiple things at once.

This is going off topic and I don't want to get infracted so if this is going to go any further you should prob bring it up in the actual GG thread.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Did you make sure to confer with at least a dozen women and draw a consensus opinion that they wanted you to be vocal about telling other males to shut up before you started telling other males to shut up for the benefit of women?

I belong to a couple of small feminist groups that have accepted concerns for men as well with open arms, and both groups openly discuss issues. It's kind of nice to have a discussion about the problems facing women without someone going "OH YEAH WELL THAT'S FAKE YOU LIAR" or "OH YEAH WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS ISSUE FACING MEN HUH". Then turn around and talk about a male issue with the exact same group.

Certain groups (many gamers, many conservatives) claim that feminists are making a bad name for themselves and that nobody takes them seriously any more and yet... that seems to only be true for these particular groups, meanwhile the rest of polite society still views it respectably, and these groups I just told you about very proudly call themselves feminists and egalitarian interchangeably. It's only the groups who are out to silence the conversation of gender equality who seem so frantic to use any means necessary.

For being so fanatical, you have to wonder about their motive, since every action is driven by some sort of motive. A lot of what I see is bitter resentment - unsurprisingly common from people who used to cry about the friend zone forever and ever. The next group seems like contempt, probably from some underlying misogyny, the rest are a mixed bag. But they all seem pretty intent on shutting down any conversation whatsoever.