Legion - Subtlety discussion

[elfporn]

It's working for me. You can see it pretty clearly if you go up to a dummy and spam Shuriken Storm. You'll see the very distinct animation go off twice (and get double CPs). Nightblade DoT ticks will register as "weaponmaster," otherwise your direct damage attacks will look like two independent strikes.

I've nto had a chance to try weaponmaster yet - can it proc off of itself?

[kalaratic]

@kalaratic - we actually already had it at 20% I believe it's on SimC's list to fix (they know about it, and should be updating it soon).

To verify, you can see Shadow Focus here. Look at the 'power cost' line. Normally you can just go to the spell wiki to verify it, but this one is a bit special as it's tied to the stealth spell.

ahh kk. thanks for the heads up.

[Deleted]

@kalaratic - we actually already had it at 20% I believe it's on SimC's list to fix (they know about it, and should be updating it soon).

To verify, you can see Shadow Focus here. Look at the 'power cost' line. Normally you can just go to the spell wiki to verify it, but this one is a bit special as it's tied to the stealth spell.

SimC? Does your sim have any connection with Simcraft?

[Deleted]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17612222539#1

There you go mate, i only have EU access on my secondary account, but hopefully they will read it

Thanks mate, hopefully EU isn't abandoned and forgotten... Oh, what am I talking about.

[Zoopercat]

@Wunju - The AMR simulator is a built from the ground up (new technology). The idea was to open everything up on a wiki to be easily verified, and all reports and rotations easily shared. We are working with a lot of the SimC people though (the main dev included). We share info with them, they share with us, both sides alert each other of bugs and other useful discussions. Hope that answers your question

[Mafic]

Preach has done a 2nd video on Sub.

Lets just say he isn't so kind lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7V1sSp-WMM

[funkiwi]

Hmm I really don't like this video ...

the recent changes to sub were good, besides the backstack / shadowstrike thing which is really annoying.

[kalaratic]

Preach has done a 2nd video on Sub.

Lets just say he isn't so kind lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7V1sSp-WMM

tbh i thought he would be a lot more harsh. the whole video felt rushed to me and the fact that he called shadow techniques relatively predictable meant to me that he didn't give the spec the time it deserves to make a judgement like that.

[elfporn]

Preach has done a 2nd video on Sub.

Lets just say he isn't so kind lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7V1sSp-WMM

lets make sure that blizzard gets the message.

[Zoulis]

Preach has done a 2nd video on Sub.

Lets just say he isn't so kind lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7V1sSp-WMM

To be honest I feel like he was too kind :P

Unfortunately I got Beta... And I have to say that I'm more pessimistic than ever... Who cares about complexity, which let's be real it's not too much, more than we currently have but it's not really something you won't get used to after a couple of weeks.

There is no fun in this... I don't know it might just be me, but the reason I play sub right now is the back and forth of resource management during downtime and burst. And that you need both correct management and correct usage of skills and resources during burst to get good results.

Now it's just a bland specc that made SD lose its oomph. You can play for 100% uptime on MoS which makes it extremely boring. Then you can play by keeping 2 stacks up and then using one for SoD right before you cap, while keeping stacks for burst... Am I missing something, cause I feel like these are the only two ways you can play and none of them are interesting, since there's so much margin for error... Maybe the 100% uptime on MoS has less margin for error, but then again it's boring as balls.

And please don't get me started on Shadow Techniques RPPM and DfA having a 1.5 gcd animation that fucks you up during Dance. I feel like this specc is just too boring right now... Please someone tell me I'm missing something...

[Deleted]

That video was cringy as fuck, he sounded like a 14 yo girl, all triggered talking about the names of the skills...

[Deleted]

Personally I can't stand Preach vids.... But I could stand it slightly more than Shadow Techniques. Man o man that passive really bug the living hell outta me...... Procs when you don't need it to proc, doesn't when you do need it.......... Ugh..............

[Lesane]

tbh i thought he would be a lot more harsh. the whole video felt rushed to me and the fact that he called shadow techniques relatively predictable meant to me that he didn't give the spec the time it deserves to make a judgement like that.

That's Preach vids in a nutshell for ya, just learns the very basic rotation and posts a vid acting like he mastered the spec and knows how everything works. I really don't know why anyone bothers to watch his class review vids, let alone use them as a guide.

[elfporn]

That's Preach vids in a nutshell for ya, just learns the very basic rotation and posts a vid acting like he mastered the spec and knows how everything works. I really don't know why anyone bothers to watch his class review vids, let alone use them as a guide.

Because he has blizzard's respect, and his opinions apparently carry weight with them. it's all conjecture, but he's had their ear in the past, and his bitching got shit changed.

[Deleted]

That Subtlety video was pretty lackluster.

[Deleted]

If Preach knew how to edit and pace his video's correctly, they'd be bearable to watch.

I like how new Sub plays. Shadow Techniques could be better but overall i'm content.

[Mafic]

Preach admitted in the video he didn't go into depth with Rogues for Legion because he simply didn't like the direction they were going.

He tried to defend Sub spec by saying nuances of pooling energy was still there but the truth is that is no longer the case.

[Reposed]

the recent changes to sub were good, besides the backstack / shadowstrike thing which is really annoying.

To me it's not so much the Backstab/Shadowstrike thing by itself - as everyone seems to be making the case for, and Blizzard shot down - but rather the fact that Shadowdance gives you access to your Stealth abilities but says, "Oh, btw, you have to have double the keybinds for each! trolololol..."

In my own case, I never had Backstab/Ambush on the same bind (though it makes sense), however, I have had the same keybinds now for damn near 10 years, and to all of a sudden say, "In stealth, press 1 for Sap, 2 for Cheap Shot, 3 for Ambush...but if you use Shadowdance you have to find different keybinds for the same abilities...perhaps ALT-5 for Sap, SHIFT-G for Cheap Shot, and SHIFT-B for Shadowstrike..." is beyond dumb, IMO. If it's not going to be able to be fixed with a macro (which they have clearly stated it is not), then I, personally, have lost interest in playing Sub. It may sound petty, but having to find 3 new keybinds in my already cluttered keybindings - for the same damn spells - is moronic, (I mainly PvP, so it's not merely a BS/SS issue).

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Not having a stance bar for ShD, somewhat makes the regular stealth bar superfluous...unless you just fill the whole bar up with Pick Pocket, as you will have keybinds for Sap, Cheap Shot & Shadowstrike on non-stealth bar buttons anyway.

[Deleted]

I thought everyone moved there key-bindings from the default bar ages ago, cos shadowdance/vanish would have a minor delay before the change in bars would register, and not allowed for instant use of CS, sap, ect. So for me this Dance bar shindig doesn't really effect me, since my dance/stealth bar is the same as my default bar.

That said I disagree with combining Shadow Strike and backstab. If SStrike didn't have the porting ability tied to it then it would make little difference (but i'd still be against it) But since it is, I feel they're are too different to merit a merging, even if off the top of my head I can't think of a situation where it would matter.

Truth be told the only things I am really annoyed at from Legions changes are the UI fluff. Fading blocks for HP damage (rather than being instant), Fading blocks for Energy usage (rather than being instant), changing the combo points bar, no more old animations, no poisons for my Sub Rogue, the changed name plates, old tier sets turning gray in quality and deactivated bonuses, (may not be true) the change to melee range from 5 yards to 8 yards, and the sound changes on Cheap Shot - Mut and other abilities.

Honestly, as long as they give me a way to revert all these changes, I couldn't care less what they do, which will likely be done though scripts and addons. But if I can't, then I will be very disappointed, and if other areas of Legion fall short, will be another nail in an already decrepit coffin.

That ended up been a rant, sorry.

[Reposed]

Cryptnic, perhaps you weren't directly responding to me, (which seems to be the case, since you disagreed with the merging of BS/SS - a proposition which I never alluded to myself, nor would it affect me either way), that said, you did mention moving away from the use of default bar paging - which I myself do, but I do use stance macros which will be unavailable come Legion...making two sets of completely different keybinds for the same spells...which is unnecessary & dumb, IMO.