Do you feel all classes are being dumbed down with each expac that comes out?

[Kithelle]

I wouldn't say with each xpack that comes out, but Legion really takes the cake for dumbing down classes lol

[Eon Drache]

I don't think you can really get more simple for ret than Wrath was. Cata was pretty simple times, too. I feel ret actually got more complex in legion as we actually have to interact with our mastery. We have the same number of procs. And depending on your talents you actually have more dps buttons to press than before.

[Deleted]

I actually prefer the new Speccs. Before Cata, you just had a static rotation for your Specc - that's it. Now, we have no hard rotations anymore, and most of the classes have two class-resources to manage. Priorities are way more challenging to manage, and are actually way more fun to master. A static Rota is just boring after some time - good that they changed that.

Also, active tanking gave you actually something to do and felt rewarding if you did it right - if you use your active skills at the wrong time, or not at all, you just get smashed hard as a tank. Not just a passive meat shield anymore.

[fengosa]

I started playing in wrath when we were swimming in rage and mana. The class redesign in Cata was fantastic. Not saying I agree with every change they've made or don't miss specific abilities but overall class design is much better today then when I started the game.

[Usagi Senshi]

I agree with everything you said. Especially on the final part with final fantasy XIV. I really feel like dragoon needs so many keybinds to be competitive, some ability pruning wouldn't hurt!

LOL, I know I know and I can can do it (not used to it yet), but having three separate rotations as a melee DPS (and keeping up two dots and two buffs) is quite silly and threw me for a loop. Its much harder than Monk. Here you canw atch me be a scrub here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq_DLUYIdBY

[Mhyroth]

I do agree to the people who say "more keybinds =/= more skill", although I do agree with people too who say that "pressing 2 buttons isn't fun or compelling" either.
It's hard to balance between the right amount of abilities and how a Class should feel, and with some iterations I do feel they kind of missed the ball and went a little overboard, but there's also some line of thought to be put into that we, the playerbase, have become smarter when it comes to executing Rotations, set up tactics (either through PvP or Pve it's up to you) and Addons which have caused a lot of the "harder" mechanics or the way we look at Raiding to change.
The biggest challenge the last couple of years lies more into combining everything and to find a stable Raid/Arena/RBG environement to play in. It's been progressively harder (for a lot of newer players or those who were not as commited to either one of those schedules) to fit into the more "advanced" PvE/PvP scene which has evolved the last couple of years.
It's a bit of everything, not just Classes/Speccs which get dumbed down (which is an awful word if I must say),the communities you play in and the way they all interact with each other. Hell, one may even argue it's harder now than ever before to find that sweetspot where you want to stick around and actually enjoy everything you do (either with your character or your friends).
Just my 2 cents tho and a lot of personal viewpoints so in no way a representation as to how it actually -might- be/is.

[papajohn4]

And what times was that? Cause I don't recall dps having to do anything more than... dps. If something, interesting mechanics were introduced in later expantions rather than earlier but in most cases the first job of a dps is to dps without dying.

Anyway, number_of_buttons != complexity

As a mage i had to cc in raids(yes in raids, not in just in dungeons)... Also as a mage i also tanked in raid (gruul). As warlock i did tank in raid (leotheras) and also solo cleared a room in heroic dungeon ( mechanar, through enslave ). Last but not least, i had to manage my consumables and time them so to keep my mana up and also had to watch my aggro .

[shaunika123]

assa rogues have more depth now than they had since wotlk so i would not say that :P

[Soluna]

LOL, I know I know and I can can do it (not used to it yet), but having three separate rotations as a melee DPS (and keeping up two dots and two buffs) is quite silly and threw me for a loop. Its much harder than Monk. Here you canw atch me be a scrub here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq_DLUYIdBY

Yeah, I really feel like the dragoon rotation is really tough and can sometimes make you forget your surroundings >_< but I got proper training by doing extreme primals as dragoon again and again till I got used to managing the rotations and the buffs while keeping an eye on what is going on around me. The transition to savage raiding felt smooth after that haha

[Dakara]

Guess it depends on the player.

I don't need my specs to be "complex" to have fun. That comes from the environment. When I'm spending extra time on custom UI's (WeakAura's mostly) to track buffs/debuffs/procs etc and having to find more keybinds for situational fluff then I feel the games overly bloated.

Not saying I want a 3 button spec, but I generally like the direction Legions taking.

[Lilija]

bc had various caster tank mechanics each raid tier

As I recall caster tanking ment doing dps to the tanked target

[Deleted]

During Molten Core progression back in Classic the best talent setup for Warlock basically had you spam just Shadowbolt 24/7 and be #1 dps. Can't get more dumbed down than that

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bc had various caster tank mechanics each raid tier

More like unintended thing

I tanked Twin Emperors in Classic with Warlock. Soul Link +Felhunter giving me shadow res + shadow res gear (tanking shadow guy).

In TBC I tanked satyr guy's imps in Karazhan due to talent called Nether Protection that would basically give me 60% shadow dmg redux or fire dmg redux depending on whic procced (both could be up at the same time).

In both cases I spammed searing pain for aggro.

One somewhat intended thing was Gruul's lair and using big felhunter to tank his master with enslave demon.

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As I recall caster tanking ment doing dps to the tanked target

Not really, no.

[Lilija]

As a mage i had to cc in raids(yes in raids, not in just in dungeons)

Oh, cc was soooo hard. Ever tried doing dungeons w/o CC?

Also as a mage i also tanked in raid (gruul).

As a moonkin I've done it as well. And it required... doing dps. Actually that was easier than dealing with anything else on that boss.

and also had to watch my aggro .

That just ment you had crappy tanks. Aggro is not a dps mechanic - it's tank mechanic.

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Not really, no.

High DPS = high aggro

[apelsinjuice]

I always laugh when people bring up BC/Wrath as a time when specs and rotations were advanced and in depth for all classes. As someone who played a fury warrior through those times (vanilla as well), the rotations and overall depth was pretty bloody shallow. For BC fury, your main attack spells were Bloothirst, Whirlwind, Execute and Heroic Strike if rage allowed with Rampage being kept up. That was 4 buttons to press plus a 5th every 30 seconds. Obviously stance dancing was something that was done then (playing with NZ ping on a US server basically mean't it was pointless for me to even try) but still, if we're going off number of buttons needed to play the specs, that's pretty simple compared to Fury on live, and even still for Legion.

This. Started playing in Wotlk, raided as a ret pala and the rotation was mindless spamming of 4 buttons with like zero proc interaction or anything.

[Heavens Night]

I play a mage and looking at the Legion changes makes me sad. Is it just mage or is it all classes? It's just no fun.

I agree they were doing and had been, but come on you really can't say that about Legion. With Legion it's like the classes are on steroids. Far from dumbed down.

They have definitely improved the classes with Legion a great deal IMO. From what they are now, which is tired and outdated.

[Flaks]

There was far more complexity to specs with each expansion from wotlk to Cata. Mop changed rotations up without adding complexity though it did give classes that didn't already have them more utility making them more complex for pvp if not for pve.

WoD and legion have cut down so much so quickly that were already seeing tbc to vanilla levels of basic rotations AND pvp utility. I feel like blizzard thinks this is what people want when they ask for vanilla servers. Of course they couldn't be more wrong. Fortunately they've made it so talent trees allow some classes to get away from the faceroll.

[papajohn4]

LOL, I know I know and I can can do it (not used to it yet), but having three separate rotations as a melee DPS (and keeping up two dots and two buffs) is quite silly and threw me for a loop. Its much harder than Monk. Here you canw atch me be a scrub here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq_DLUYIdBY

You guys need to try ninja by far the most complicated one! But i am getting used to it so far hehe

[Usagi Senshi]

You guys need to try ninja by far the most complicated one! But i am getting used to it so far hehe

I'll pass, I'm just trying to stick 1 dw (mnk), one physical ranged (mch), and one 2-hander (drg) classes. I'll make another exception if they ever do a proper plate dps class or if we get freebie level 60s.

Also, holy hell, I tried unholy (I'll be sticking with frost but will unlock unholy weapon shit later on in Legion) on the PTR and that really is a 2-3 attack button class. Still fun and I'm quite sure its more complicated than that with macros.

[glowpipe]

Dumbing down ? its more or less the same rotation for many classes. Guess B; hunter got shafted a tad bit. Other than that. They just removed a LOT of bs you never used. My rogue got the same amount of useful skill on beta as in live. Hardly any change.

[Flacko]

I've played most classes on beta and yes all classes had a pretty hard pruning, but a lot of what was removed was pointless stuff that was either baked into other spells/talents or was simply removed because blizz felt that it wasn't needed anymore, ie buffs. I wouldn't say the classes feel dumbed down because they either are proc based and you have to react to them, or they are more or less as 'complex' as they are on live. Some classes, like warriors, really only use 2 buttons for their dps rotation, but that's become the norm since arcane was made to play like that back in Cata sadly.

Warriors have on beta more numbers of buttons for their dps rotation than u can realize.