[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Glengolars]

I believe people said our priority target's burst is our "niche" now. Also I remember Cyous saying that we're good (better than average) on everything but we excel at nothing. Like concistency in everything is supposed to be our thing? Idk if that's still the case since he said that some weeks ago.

Is that ok with everyone? I doubt it. I care about the fun of the spec mostly and the feel of it, as I LOVE the stars theme and I really really wanna stick to it. I hope the devs realize that and Balance with the Artifact should be at least fun...

[7empest]

The reason we have a shitty defensive CD is because we are sitting on a metric fuckton of armor and have a bunch of self-healing at our disposal. Don't succumb to tunnel vision my owls, the reactive self-healing helps reacting to damage instead of preventing it sure, but that's classfantasy™

[wing5wong]

The reason we have a shitty defensive CD is because we are sitting on a metric fuckton of armor and have a bunch of self-healing at our disposal. Don't succumb to tunnel vision my owls.

Don't be fooled by the number of healing abilities.

[Deleted]

IMO Balance by far given the most love in legion, mechanics and damage of class feel so good and have not lost any raid utility.

[Mystikal]

The reason we have a shitty defensive CD is because we are sitting on a metric fuckton of armor and have a bunch of self-healing at our disposal. Don't succumb to tunnel vision my owls, the reactive self-healing helps reacting to damage instead of preventing it sure, but that's classfantasy™

The healing abilities granted by Restoration Affinity are very underwhelming. A Shaman's Healing Surge, even without their artifact trait, is more powerful.

If you don't take Restoration Affinity, then all you have is Healing Touch, which is criminally undertuned, and Renewal, if you decide to talent for it.

[Xandrigity]

The reason we have a shitty defensive CD is because we are sitting on a metric fuckton of armor and have a bunch of self-healing at our disposal. Don't succumb to tunnel vision my owls, the reactive self-healing helps reacting to damage instead of preventing it sure, but that's classfantasy™

While with resto affinity we do have a lot healing spells, in the open world popping in and out of moonkin form is impractical and feels extremely clunky. I also don't see many instances where popping in and out of moonkin form in a raid will be useful.

[Argenon]

So, I have been checking this thread for a little under a month now after I declared as boomkin in my raiding guild for Legion, and I am not encouraged, did I chose a class too early?

I know it is hard to predict the future, but as of right now, what do my theorycrafting moonkin compatriots say about us being competitive in DPS in future raids? Will I be able to pull my weight? or will I be the guy fighting to out DPS tanks?

For me if it is not Moonkin it will likely be ele shaman, any thoughts there?

[Synbaby]

So, I have been checking this thread for a little under a month now after I declared as boomkin in my raiding guild for Legion, and I am not encouraged, did I chose a class too early?

I know it is hard to predict the future, but as of right now, what do my theorycrafting moonkin compatriots say about us being competitive in DPS in future raids? Will I be able to pull my weight? or will I be the guy fighting to out DPS tanks?

For me if it is not Moonkin it will likely be ele shaman, any thoughts there?

I heard Ele is not in a good place right now, dps-wise. However, they're off-healing is still better than moonkin's

[Lucrece]

Since people seem to have the memory of goldfish and keep saying we have resto affinity of "good healing" and "metric ton of armor" (which does jackshit in a game where most attacks ignore armor).

I'm gonna recycle my earlier post to huth until people realize our healing numbers are absolute dogshit.

I'm telling you that when shadowform was lost, they baked in the benefits. It's that simple. Priests largely retained their defensive features while still being able to heal without cost. You're just being a contrarian.

Others don't get the additional healing options because they already have their own defensive features that don't rely on healing. Shadowmend is stronger than Healing Touch+Regrowth+Rejuv. Have you actually played a shadow priest? Watch Theed's videos and the amount shadow mend and vampiric touch heal for.

Shadow priests recover 50% of their health with dispersion, which also reduces damage by 95% with pvp talents.

Elemental shaman's direct heal gains 45% boost from the artifact talent alone. It heals for 450% spell power at a 1.5 sec cast. Healing Touch is a 360% spell power on a 2.5 second cast, and the only thing your artifact does is give you a free one every 20 seconds.

Ele shamans also have a 12 sec cd spell interrupt, as opposed to a 1 minute cd, which allows them to handle caster burst and damage far better than a moonkin. They also have a better burst defensive in astral shift, which reduces incoming burst by 40% for 6 seconds instead of a smaller 20% for 12 seconds, making it far more valuable in PvP combat where burst windows are much more valuable than sustained damage.

Quite frankly, your comment on resto affinity means jackshit considering in WoD we already had Rejuv in Moonkin form, so we only gained a Regrowth which competes with Healing Touch in casting opportunity cost and offers less burst healing (its burst heal compared to Healing Surge at the same 1.5 sec cast time is less than half of Healing Surge's healing without taking Healing Surge's 45% artifact boost, and the total healing is a miserly 269.4% spell power, or about 60% of the healing over 12 seconds of what a Healing Surge without artifact boost heals for). Rejuv adds 60% spell power every 3 seconds.

Assuming you're being generous and cast a Regrowth+Rejuv to compare with Healing Surge, you have a total healing of 569.4% for two globals, spread over an effect of 15 seconds, while 2 Healing Surge's in two globals worth of time heals for 900% spell power without the 45% artifact boost. Add swiftmend every 30 seconds for a third global, bringing up 1269.4% spell power for 3 globals. 3 Healing Surges in 3 globals is 1350% spell power. 2 Healing Surges at 2 globals with a 45% boost is 1305% spell power. Of our 3 ideal druid globals, 2 are instant, but 2 of the 3 spells can also be dispelled/spellstolen, they take many times longer to fulfill their healing for a lesser total amount of healing, and Swiftmend is on a 30 sec cd.

So their baseline heals compared without our talented for affinity is not a comparison you want to make, because if we're NOT talking about resto affinity, our healing is even more laughable.

There, numbers comparison done to ELE shaman healing, which is second worst in caster self healing (I'm not including mages because with shimmer they now have 2 blinks, baseline ice block, and arcane mages have the ability to blink like 6 times).

So please stop saying we have shit defensives because we have healing.

Because we don't have healing. Our healing numbers are atrocious, and our 30% heal talent on a 2 min cd is a 30 sec cd baseline heal for a rogue's Crimson Vial.

[7empest]

So, I have been checking this thread for a little under a month now after I declared as boomkin in my raiding guild for Legion, and I am not encouraged, did I chose a class too early?

I know it is hard to predict the future, but as of right now, what do my theorycrafting moonkin compatriots say about us being competitive in DPS in future raids? Will I be able to pull my weight? or will I be the guy fighting to out DPS tanks?

For me if it is not Moonkin it will likely be ele shaman, any thoughts there?

The glass isn't as half-empty as as you would think reading these forums. Play what you enjoy. If you enjoy dropping moons on plebs and literally eating away 30 to 40% hp with a full moon-starsurge combo in pvp, chicken is the way to go, if you enjoy the same thing in a pve context? Go for it.

I have extensively tested numerous classes and specs on the beta and while some dominate in numbers, they are dreadfully dull. Just gotta ask yourself why you play this game and choose accordingly.

Doomchicken getting benched won't happen. These kind of fears are unsubstantiated.

If you don't doomchicken you will lose:

-the ability to drop moons from orbit
-the ability to cast flying, howling wolves for gods sake
-particle beam cannon talent
-one of the coolest looking artifacts in the game (mother of god that moonscythe skin)
-playing a class that has updated spell graphics for Everything! (rip arcane mages, frost mages)
-strong class fantasy and leveling/order hall experience
-best world traversing after mages with the dreamway portals
-best raid utility spell in the game (rebirth, fight me on this)
-the ability to roleplay as a combat pet

Some positivity injection to balance out the negativity. Realize what you do have guys vs what you don't.
(first negative comment: we're a dps spec, if we are not competitive enough we might as well reroll)

[Menubrea]

Since people seem to have the memory of goldfish and keep saying we have resto affinity of "good healing" and "metric ton of armor" (which does jackshit in a game where most attacks ignore armor).

I'm gonna recycle my earlier post to huth until people realize our healing numbers are absolute dogshit.




There, numbers comparison done to ELE shaman healing, which is second worst in caster self healing (I'm not including mages because with shimmer they now have 2 blinks, baseline ice block, and arcane mages have the ability to blink like 6 times).

So please stop saying we have shit defensives because we have healing.

Because we don't have healing. Our healing numbers are atrocious, and our 30% heal talent on a 2 min cd is a 30 sec cd baseline heal for a rogue's Crimson Vial.

It's actually quite hilarious to see how shitty hybrid's self healing really is, it's worse than pures with the added benefit of having less DPS and utility to boot! Yay!

[Cowa]

But doesn't the healing we have shift us out of moonkin form or did they fix that

[Xandrigity]

But doesn't the healing we have shift us out of moonkin form or did they fix that

Yes that is what makes it clunky and not very realistic.

[Argenon]

The glass isn't as half-empty as as you would think reading these forums. Play what you enjoy. If you enjoy dropping moons on plebs and literally eating away 30 to 40% hp with a full moon-starsurge combo in pvp, chicken is the way to go, if you enjoy the same thing in a pve context? Go for it.

I have extensively tested numerous classes and specs on the beta and while some dominate in numbers, they are dreadfully dull. Just gotta ask yourself why you play this game and choose accordingly.

Doomchicken getting benched won't happen. These kind of fears are unsubstantiated.

If you don't doomchicken you will lose:

-the ability to drop moons from orbit
-the ability to cast flying, howling wolves for gods sake
-particle beam cannon talent
-one of the coolest looking artifacts in the game (mother of god that moonscythe skin)
-playing a class that has updated spell graphics for Everything! (rip arcane mages, frost mages)
-strong class fantasy and leveling/order hall experience
-best world traversing after mages with the dreamway portals
-best raid utility spell in the game (rebirth, fight me on this)
-the ability to roleplay as a combat pet

Some positivity injection to balance out the negativity. Realize what you do have guys vs what you don't.
(first negative comment: we're a dps spec, if we are not competitive enough we might as well reroll)

I don't want to re-roll. I have raided as Boomkin since Karazhan and have loved it ever since. However, in a game that is (for me as a PVE player) about killing bosses, I want do some damage. I don't have to be top DPS, as boomkins very rarely get that chance (I remember ICC being very boomkin friendly), but I would like to do competitive numbers that justify my raid spot in my guild.

[huth]

Yes that is what makes it clunky and not very realistic.

Yeah, the old celtic druids had no problem healing themselves while staying in moonkin...

I don't think "realistic" is the word you're looking for.

[Xandrigity]

Yeah, the old celtic druids had no problem healing themselves while staying in moonkin...

I don't think "realistic" is the word you're looking for.

Ok, practical

[Cyous]

When I stated "Moonkins are fine." I meant it to ways:

- Mechanically, we're fine.
- DPS-wise, we "were" fine until they nerfed us for 2 months straight.

[Albimoo]

When I stated "Moonkins are fine." I meant it to ways:

- Mechanically, we're fine.
- DPS-wise, we "were" fine until they nerfed us for 2 months straight.

In your honest opinion, worth playing?

Been doing raid testing on the beta and been on the lower end (not bottom but below middle for sure), of the damage. I dont imagine a substantial amount of tuning is left to be done between now and release. So that just leaves how significantly effected we are by the artifact traits compared to other classes at max levels.

Should be noted that this is comparing to other classes who also only have a few traits unlocked (lvl 100-103ish).

Just feels so mediocre.

[jon234]

anybody have a lay out of the optimal artifact path? or in reality does it not matter to much

[Cyous]

In your honest opinion, worth playing?

Been doing raid testing on the beta and been on the lower end (not bottom but below middle for sure), of the damage. I dont imagine a substantial amount of tuning is left to be done between now and release. So that just leaves how significantly effected we are by the artifact traits compared to other classes at max levels.

Should be noted that this is comparing to other classes who also only have a few traits unlocked (lvl 100-103ish).

Just feels so mediocre.

DPS doesnt matter outside Top100 Regional guilds.
Play what you enjoy.
If you want to be useful on progression, we bring nothing of value and our DPS isn't that strong.

- - - Updated - - -

anybody have a lay out of the optimal artifact path? or in reality does it not matter to much

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745626938#3

http://imgur.com/a/w371C