Multiculturalism in Europe

[Kalis]

So kalis, you think the coup in Iran, the creation and supporting of extremist militias and the targeting of pan Arabic socialism has less influence than rulers the lived centuries ago.
Aye gotcha.

That is not what I said at all.

We are talking about who destroyed the civil rights that the Middle East had thousands of years ago, so you need to prove it was the West who destroyed them.

I get the feeling that you do not actually agree with the statement made by Themius, but you are too embarrassed to admit that you did not even know what you were arguing in favour of.

[Acidbaron]

..... Why?

Wonder that also, since civil rights is something that is ever changing adjusting to the spirit of the time it lives in. Civil rights is also something that came into society not long ago, things he's speaking of weren't present in the western regions either, people seem to forget that things like the woman vote only came to pass at the end of the 1800's.

Not to mention civil rights tend to be build up the more educated and thus the more intellectual your society is, a population targeted by fundamentalists we armed in those regions.

Really feels like the conversation is constantly trying to be moved away from our involvement and any reason regardless of how old and farfetched is valid for this. Don't get it is so hard to accept that, maybe the UK never had to apologize for their actions in the world and so this feeling is completely alien?

- - - Updated - - -

That is not what I said at all.

We are talking about who destroyed the civil rights that the Middle East had thousands of years ago, so you need to prove it was the West who destroyed them.

I get the feeling that you do not actually agree with the statement made by Themius, but you are too embarrassed to admit that you did not even know what you were arguing in favour of.

So you want me to proof to you the removal of something that wasn't even a thing on this globe before let's say the late 19th century at earliest.

Okay...

[Tumble]

Multiculturalism only works when the immigrating cultures are willing to give up the shitty parts of their culture to meet with the views of the country in which they immigrate to. Want to keep you love of bright textiles, go for it, want to marry a 12 year old girl and have sex with her nightly, no. Want to eat hummus after smoking a hookah, enjoy, want to stone a gay guy to death just for being gay, not here. This day and age, in western the world, women have rights, men enjoy the company of other men in the open, most people eat whatever the hell they want, and it's not common place to beat a woman to death after she was raped as to not bring dishonor to the family. Currently however, certain groups of people immigrate and insist on forcing their beliefs on everyone else. Nothing pisses me off more than when I see someone named akmed pop up on a burger king add on Facebook talking about how they need to become halal certified. It's like listen here, if you want a burger joint to be halal, start your own, don't force everyone around you to eat that shit because a book says you cant. What's worse is because of the social pressure that is currently popular at the moment, a lot of these companies are forced to do it in fear of being labels racist.

[Kalis]

Wonder that also, since civil rights is something that is ever changing adjusting to the spirit of the time it lives in. Civil rights is also something that came into society not long ago, things he's speaking of weren't present in the western regions either, people seem to forget that things like the woman vote only came to pass at the end of the 1800's.

Not to mention civil rights tend to be build up the more educated and thus the more intellectual your society is, a population targeted by fundamentalists we armed in those regions.

Really feels like the conversation is constantly trying to be moved away from our involvement and any reason regardless of how old and farfetched is valid for this. Don't get it is so hard to accept that, maybe the UK never had to apologize for their actions in the world and so this feeling is completely alien?

It was not me that made the claim about civil rights, it was Themius. Either you agree with the statement made by Themius, or you agree with me saying Themius was wrong.

Now you are fucked, because you have just said the statement made by Themius is impossible, so enjoy arguing in favour of it.

[Bumbasta]

Is this meant to be deep somehow? It's failing. I suggest you look up Apartheid again.

It's in effect the same thing. Apartheid was initially meant for people to live apart. Not for one to supress the other. Just all sides being able to live their own lifestyle their own way.

Now look at multiculturalism. It's the same thing. The muslims go to their mosques, live in the same neighborhoods, have their own bars they like, have their own supermarkets where they have their own food. Same goes for any other minority as well as the majority in Europe.

Multiculturalism is so incredible romanticized. Look how it works in effect. It is not any different form the initial idea of apartheid. Nothing deep about it, it is actually plain and simple.

[Acidbaron]

It was not me that made the claim about civil rights, it was Themius. Either you agree with the statement made by Themius, or you agree with me saying Themius was wrong.

Now you are fucked, because you have just said the statement made by Themius is impossible, so enjoy arguing in favour of it.

I am only fucked if i chose to ignore the 19th century of that region and the 20th century to current one with more precisely the changes before and after the cold war.

Sorry i don't ignore events in history that don't suit me, that's your game.

[NineSpine]

Multiculturalism only works when the immigrating cultures are willing to give up the shitty parts of their culture to meet with the views of the country in which they immigrate to. Want to keep you love of bright textiles, go for it, want to marry a 12 year old girl and have sex with her nightly, no. Want to eat hummus after smoking a hookah, enjoy, want to stone a gay guy to death just for being gay, not here. This day and age, in western the world, women have rights, men enjoy the company of other men in the open, most people eat whatever the hell they want, and it's not common place to beat a woman to death after she was raped as to not bring dishonor to the family. Currently however, certain groups of people immigrate and insist on forcing their beliefs on everyone else. Nothing pisses me off more than when I see someone named akmed pop up on a burger king add on Facebook talking about how they need to become halal certified. It's like listen here, if you want a burger joint to be halal, start your own, don't force everyone around you to eat that shit because a book says you cant. What's worse is because of the social pressure that is currently popular at the moment, a lot of these companies are forced to do it in fear of being labels racist.

I don't think you know what halal is.

[Slant]

It's in effect the same thing. Apartheid was initially meant for people to live apart. Not for one to supress the other. Just all sides being able to live their own lifestyle their own way.

Now look at multiculturalism. It's the same thing. The muslims go to their mosques, live in the same neighborhoods, have their own bars they like, have their own supermarkets where they have their own food. Same goes for any other minority as well as the majority in Europe.

Multiculturalism is so incredible romanticized. Look how it works in effect. It is not any different form the initial idea of apartheid. Nothing deep about it, it is actually plain and simple.

What you're describing is not multiculturalism.

[Acidbaron]

It's in effect the same thing. Apartheid was initially meant for people to live apart. Not for one to supress the other. Just all sides being able to live their own lifestyle their own way.

Now look at multiculturalism. It's the same thing. The muslims go to their mosques, live in the same neighborhoods, have their own bars they like, have their own supermarkets where they have their own food. Same goes for any other minority as well as the majority in Europe.

Multiculturalism is so incredible romanticized. Look how it works in effect. It is not any different form the initial idea of apartheid. Nothing deep about it, it is actually plain and simple.

A large part of why it did not work out was that reasoning that things had to be split, so you essentially obtained a society living inside a society. This is very much true in Europe since those that came to work here were "guest workers" neither us nor them had the intend of staying here long term when they first arrived.

To this day in my old neighborhoods you very much see them having their own shops and stores, this does not simply reflect back on the Muslims but pretty much any population group that was of large enough size that came here, for example Italians is another large group that resides here. The older generation still don't speak the language well and still rely on their children to translate official documents and what not.

[NineSpine]

It's in effect the same thing. Apartheid was initially meant for people to live apart. Not for one to supress the other. Just all sides being able to live their own lifestyle their own way.

Now look at multiculturalism. It's the same thing. The muslims go to their mosques, live in the same neighborhoods, have their own bars they like, have their own supermarkets where they have their own food. Same goes for any other minority as well as the majority in Europe.

Multiculturalism is so incredible romanticized. Look how it works in effect. It is not any different form the initial idea of apartheid. Nothing deep about it, it is actually plain and simple.

Immigrants integrate when society affords them the ability to, but it is almost universally the second and third generations that do the integration. If your society is constantly pushing those people away, they won't integrate. There is a great case study of this in the U.S., where the Irish were slowly permitted to integrate until they were very much part of the fabric of America, while the Chinese were targeted for exclusion, explicitly. The Chinese immigrants ended up not integrating as a result.

[Acidbaron]

I don't think you know what halal is.

Best part is, he's raging on about how they want everyone to change. While they pretty much have their own food stores, dinners and what not but that's also something those people don't like either since it is perceived as changing their society also, even though it does no harm.

[NineSpine]

Best part is, he's raging on about how they want everyone to change. While they pretty much have their own food stores, dinners and what not but that's also something those people don't like either since it is perceived as changing their society also, even though it does no harm.

You can have your hummus, but NO HALAL!

[Tumble]

I don't think you know what halal is.

Google is my friend as well, so yes I do.


Halal literally means "permissible" in Arabic, and refers to food items that are permissible to consume under Sharia law, and Haram (lit. unlawful) refers to any substance not permitted to consume. According to the Australian Food and Grocery Council, Halal must be "free from any substance taken or extracted from a Haram animal or ingredient (e.g. pigs, dogs, carnivorous animals, animals not slaughtered in compliance with Islamic rites); made, processed, manufactured and/or stored by using utensils, equipment and/or machinery that has been cleaned according to Islamic law (e.g. not cleaned with alcohol); and free from contact with, or being close to, a Haram substance during preparation, manufacture, processing and storage (e.g. blood, alcohol, poisonous and intoxicating plants and insects such as worms and cockroaches)."[2]

[NineSpine]

Google is my friend as well, so yes I do.


Halal literally means "permissible" in Arabic, and refers to food items that are permissible to consume under Sharia law, and Haram (lit. unlawful) refers to any substance not permitted to consume. According to the Australian Food and Grocery Council, Halal must be "free from any substance taken or extracted from a Haram animal or ingredient (e.g. pigs, dogs, carnivorous animals, animals not slaughtered in compliance with Islamic rites); made, processed, manufactured and/or stored by using utensils, equipment and/or machinery that has been cleaned according to Islamic law (e.g. not cleaned with alcohol); and free from contact with, or being close to, a Haram substance during preparation, manufacture, processing and storage (e.g. blood, alcohol, poisonous and intoxicating plants and insects such as worms and cockroaches)."[2]

So if food is halal, how does that effect you?

[Kalis]

I am only fucked if i chose to ignore the 19th century of that region and the 20th century to current one with more precisely the changes before and after the cold war.

Sorry i don't ignore events in history that don't suit me, that's your game.

No, you are fucked because you are arguing against me saying that the West did NOT destroy the civil rights enjoyed by the Middle East thousands of years ago. You need to show that the West did do that, but you have just said you do not believe that is possible, so good luck.

[NineSpine]

No, you are fucked because you are arguing against me saying that the West did NOT destroy the civil rights enjoyed by the Middle East thousands of years ago. You need to show that the West did do that, but you have just said you do not believe that is possible, so good luck.

Do you honestly need a history lesson on how the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire was carried out?

[Bumbasta]

A large part of why it did not work out was that reasoning that things had to be split, so you essentially obtained a society living inside a society. This is very much true in Europe since those that came to work here were "guest workers" neither us nor them had the intend of staying here long term when they first arrived.

To this day in my old neighborhoods you very much see them having their own shops and stores, this does not simply reflect back on the Muslims but pretty much any population group that was of large enough size that came here, for example Italians is another large group that resides here. The older generation still don't speak the language well and still rely on their children to translate official documents and what not.

It is not just evident in South Africa and Europe. Seggregation is world wide. A prime example is all the China towns you find around the world.

[Acidbaron]

Immigrants integrate when society affords them the ability to, but it is almost universally the second and third generations that do the integration. If your society is constantly pushing those people away, they won't integrate. There is a great case study of this in the U.S., where the Irish were slowly permitted to integrate until they were very much part of the fabric of America, while the Chinese were targeted for exclusion, explicitly. The Chinese immigrants ended up not integrating as a result.

And it is also why the US does so much better today, regardless of skin color or background once you obtain your citizenship you are an "american" first and foremost and they also identify themselves as such. That sense of unity is lacking in European nations, it's also something very much part of us, to this day if people ask me what i am i still identify myself with parts of my eastern european background despite it being very minor part of myself.

[Deleted]

You have no culture or identity. It died with your empire, sadly. I was so disappointed to see the lack of Union flags and English flags when I lived in England. They're beautiful flags, but people are afraid to fly them as it might be "offensive" to immigrants. That's how low your country has sunk.

That's because we find flying flags outside sport silly, we often look at Americans with their obsession with flags bizarre

[NineSpine]

It is not just evident in South Africa and Europe. Seggregation is world wide. A prime example is all the China towns you find around the world.

That's because the Chinese are a very common group that Western societies refuse to let integrate.