[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[Deleted]

A question from a poor non beta guy, and sorry if it was already asked: if anyone tried, how is Vengeance DH for soloing content? Also old raid (MoP ones and WoD if anyone did them)? His survivability is comparable (or better) to Blood DK?

Thank you for your answers!

[Neudgae]

A question from a poor non beta guy, and sorry if it was already asked: if anyone tried, how is Vengeance DH for soloing content? Also old raid (MoP ones and WoD if anyone did them)? His survivability is comparable (or better) to Blood DK?

Thank you for your answers!

as someone without beta i can tell you mop is a joke, its solo-able now bar a few exceptions, and wod is also if you are insanely over geared so wod is most likely gonna be a joke at ilvl 900+ also

[Barrin]

One quick question, whats the best way to test Classes? Is there a quick way to go Dungeons, preferably with LvL 110? Or do i have to level up from 100 as a Beta Player?

Until now, i only had the time to test Vengeance on the PvP server at lvl 110, using the Training Dummy.

- A few animations are broken, character sheathes weapons or they disappear if used with specific abilities. (Seals, Fiery Brand for example)
- A lot of animations do not fit the combat purpose. Soul Cleave looks boring, as an AOE it should look more like the Soul Carver Animation. Felblade looks stupid in melee range.
- With the low ammount of base mitigation i suspect increasing health with Soulgorger via Artifact Power won't be enough to compete with tanks having access to more mitigation via scaling.
- Soul fragment generation is to low, random and soul fragments have a to small impact to feel like it would matter, thereby a lot of abilities and talents feel underwhelming.
- The Pain-Spenders don't feel well thought: Fracture seems very poor, i don't think it could be ever considered better than Soul Cleave. The ammount of planning it needs to be viable is not possible imho. Soul Barrier on the other hand feels like the only possibility to prepare for magical spike damage, making it a must have choice in magic heavy fights, but only if the absorb would exceed our current missing health. If our health is low, its benefits are to low to be a real alternative to Soul Cleave. I would like to see it baseline, maybe redesigned as an counterpart to Demon Spikes. DS for physical dmg, SB for magical dmg.
- Overall Soul Cleave seems to be a good allround painspender package. Good Damage, AoE, Heal. Making the additional spender options via talents feel to niche.
- Darkness's 15% Miss chance is a joke, i would rather see such abilities removed if they dont have a reasonable impact. It is a very unique effect, which may be abused like stuff in the past (Aspect of the Fox, Amplify Magic). Although uniqueness across characters should be a main part of fantasy games, the homogenization started right after Shamy/Paladin implementation in classic. I thought they wanted to revert these trends with Legion, but if that means that unique abilities get nerfed to a point of uselessness, then it may be better to redesign Darkness at all. Maybe change it to a flat damage reduction like Disc-Priest's Barrier, -20% Dmg income. Or like Rogue's Smoke Bomb. Same stuff, just different class.

[Mursy]

How would you guys stack this spec up to the other tanks as of right now?

[Delimit]

Towards the bottom. We were in a decent place, towards the top before the recent blanket nerfs, while other tanks got simultaneous buffs. I would expect atleast a partial Pain generation reversion.

[redfella]

I believe we are still very much viable, but the spec surely took a big fun-factor hit with the pain generation nerf.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[Ergar]

Shear's back at 10 pain boys.

[Crimbobbin]

Shear's back at 10 pain boys.

And Felblade at 20. However Demon spikes now costs 20 pain, and they nerfed the healing from Soul Cleave. Sigh...

Edit: Also nerfed Fel Devastation from 450% AP heal to 250% AP heal, but buffed Spirit bomb damage and leech. Were we really healing for too much?

[redfella]

I really don’t get their reasoning. More pain from Shear to give more variation, but nerf spenders more than the shear buff gives?

[ShasVa]

Time to go testing then.

Also I like Enhancement, but not keen how they're getting even more power while other specs are losing theirs.

[Cooper]

The only thing I can think of is their claim that they want tanks to be more dependent on healers, but they seem rather oblivious to how the changes in recent weeks affect how fun the spec is to play. At least how it looks on paper anyway, since I'm not in Beta, but it's not hard to see how just spamming Shear might get monotonous.

[Mursy]

Let us poor souls with no beta access know how these changes feel after some testing!

Thanks!

[Thrillhouse918]

So very unimpressed with this latest build. Was amped to be a Vengeance DH but now...I really don't understand their direction here.

Very mad about the Fel Dev nerf - the ability was almost cut in HALF in a single build. So basically I think they're forcing us to really consider Spirit Bomb (no pain cost, but uses a Soul Frag) for damage and BT for Survivability. I mean really I could see hitting SB then use Immo Aura and GT to get some quick healing. Maybe a sigil of flame as well? Coupled with Charred Warblades where we heal from fire damage and that might be strong.

Then again there was something immensely satisfying hitting FDev and just watching mobs melt.

[Deleted]

Revert of the 7pain experiment was quick, great. Now the question is, did our pain on damage taken change with that new build? Will have to test..

Nerf to Fel Devastation was pretty expected, it completely outshined the other two options and was a mini-LoH on a 1min cd. At least there's some choice now..

Fel Eruption buffed? lol it was already strong, but I guess I'll take it while it lasts.

Number nerfs overall: heh, I don't know where we stand in tuning but I prefer having lower numbers and higher pain gen than the opposite (aka anything but last build), so I prefer this approach.

Feels weird seeing changes I actually like

[Zarandra]

I for sure prefer more pain generation and less damage, vs less pain gen and more damage. Demon spikes also at 20 pain now, vs 5 before i believe. Also it doesnt feel like the pain generation from taking damage was nerfed. Tried it out on a tank dummy, and i felt like i was making the same amount of pain with damage.

[Nozari]

Vengeance
Demon Spikes Surge with fel power, increasing your Parry chance by 20% and reducing Physical damage taken by 8% for 6 sec. Demon Hunter - Vengeance Spec. 50 200 Pain. Instant. 1.5 sec cooldown.

I really hope thats a mistake... isn't pain maxed at 100?

[Delimit]

Data mining thing, it always adds a 0. AKA, 5 pain to 20 pain.

[nethara]

Vengeance
Demon Spikes Surge with fel power, increasing your Parry chance by 20% and reducing Physical damage taken by 8% for 6 sec. Demon Hunter - Vengeance Spec. 50 200 Pain. Instant. 1.5 sec cooldown.

I really hope thats a mistake... isn't pain maxed at 100?

That's just an oddity with datamining and how they handle Pain behind the scenes. As a general rule, if you ever see a pain cost in the hundreds, just remove a 0.

[Cooper]

Two global cooldowns to get Demon Spikes up - give or take based on damage taken - seems like a lot to me. That is also a lot of Pain taken away from a possible Soul Cleave, in my opinion. There's also that Vengeance's Mastery does nothing for Damage Reduction without Demon Spikes up, so all in all making it cost 20 Pain is a pretty significant nerf. No bueno.

[Orloth]

Fel Devestation was pretty broken, not surprised it got nerfed. I don't think they buffed Spirit Bomb by enough to compete, though.

Demon Spikes........ why? I was pretty sure the pain cost on Demon Spikes was mostly a formality, as it has only ever been truly limited by its recharge timer. Now... I mean, if they didn't like us keeping it up ~80% it would have made more sense to me to nerf or remove Feed the Demon.

Quick estimation says from the nerfed Pain patch we'd break even when tanking, but do better when questing (when we wouldn't use Demon Spikes anyway). Maybe that's their intent?