"MoP initially had too many daily quests"

[Video Games]

Well, did you play MoP at release?

Basically, they removed the old daily quest cap (25?) and put a buttload of quests in the world. Before MoP launched people brought up the fact that people might feel obligated to do every daily quest every day, and Blizzard responded that you don't HAVE to do them all every day, just do as many as you want and do the rest later.

Obviously, a lot of people immediately set about trying to do every single quest every day and loudly complaining about it on the forums. That's MMO players for you.

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Releasing raids week 1 is a fucking terrible system and thank god they stopped.

And it wasn't a problem anyway because in one week you were capped at 1000VP, so even if you did enough dailies to unlock the vendors you couldn't actually buy any gear until after raids launched.

No it's not. I have to wait a month for the content I want to do while everybody else doesn't. How is that fair?

[Deleted]

But even within that, you unlocked more dailies. It was something like, once you hit honored, a second set of quests were available each day beyond the first set within that same rep. It was disgusting.

hm, oh yeah, wasn't it the Shado-pan?

[Cathbadh]

But that isn't a problem with the dailies themselves. That's a problem with the rewards structure. And it's the same problem people are bring up about Legion (Artifact power, legendaries, Titanforged, etc.)

The dailies themselves were not the problem in MoP. And purposely releasing less content by using this perceived problem as an excuse is even worse. And the worst part is, people are gobbling it up and Blizzard is still repeating the actual problems of MoP dailies in Legion (the rewards).

With the exception of the gating dailies/factions behind other factions, I agree. I would have been 100% behind it in MoP if "needs" weren't on the reward list and if each faction was separated more.

[Mormolyce]

No it's not. I have to wait a month for the content I want to do while everybody else doesn't. How is that fair?

In MoP it was 1 week, not a month.

And it's much better to delay the release of raids so everyone isn't forced to level at breakneck speed so they don't get benched by their guild.

[boyzma]

The problem was, it wasn't a lot of content- it was a relatively small number of quests repeated every other day. You just had to do a small amount of content over and over. That's the distinction they're making with World Quests- they're a far greater variety in actual quests available.

This exactly. having a lot of things to do is perfectly fine. Doing the same thing over and over and over is not fine. It won't be that way with world quests and if they see it's getting repetative they'll change them out

[SoulSoBreezy]

EDIT: sorry about the * in title I should not have left that there. If a mod could replace it with a space I'd appreciate it

From the latest World Quests interview summary on the front page.

I will never understand this mentality. How can you have "too much" content, let alone see it as a problem? I don't believe that there are diminishing returns to releasing more content, especially at their current levels of content release. The problem with MoP wasn't that there were "too many daily quests". It was the rewards structure. And it is the same problem that will plague Legion (with Legendaries, Artifact Power, Titanforged, etc.)

I think that the devs being afraid of releasing too much content is the least of their problems right now. I just hope that this philosophy isn't widely accepted around the office and that they aren't rationing content like a drip in fear of releasing too much.

Check 20:15 in the interview for the context. The summary doesn't quite capture the message (Jeremy's pretty much agreeing with you regarding MoP's reward structure).
I get where you're coming from, but I figure it better to react to what's actually being said, not just a single line of text.

[styil]

The problem was, it wasn't a lot of content- it was a relatively small number of quests repeated every other day. You just had to do a small amount of content over and over. That's the distinction they're making with World Quests- they're a far greater variety in actual quests available.

This exactly. having a lot of things to do is perfectly fine. Doing the same thing over and over and over is not fine. It won't be that way with world quests and if they see it's getting repetative they'll change them out

Objectively speaking, the raw number of daily quests in MoP is comparable to the number of World Quests in Legion. And beyond that, everything else is subjective (liking/disliking the quests).

[MoanaLisa]

Many people felt they had to do all the dailies at once and unlock everything as fast as possible. Spreading out items that are more or less required for raiding on so many factions was a mistake. World of Dailycraft burnt out a lot of people for the first tier of Pandaria.

This is a decent example of the great divide between those who raid and those who don't. Most don't if you don't count Raid Finder and you certainly didn't have to religiously do dailies to manage that.

Yet everyone had to deal with much less in the way of content during Warlords and dailies of this sort were removed entirely.

It's not the fault of anyone who raids. Many raiders complained very loudly about this for months at the start of Mists. And I very much agree that the gating of reputation behind reputation was a singularly bad idea for everyone.

Nonetheless, raiders were appeased at the expense of nearly everyone else. It is to be hoped that Blizzard is at last figuring this out. I watched all of the chat from today and think they're on the right track. Hope they stay there.

[Deleted]

Meh, fact is that large parts of the community demand close to the maximum possible amount of effort in terms of gearing from their peers. While there is nothing inherently wrong with that, it kind of falls apart when the amount of effort and time required exceeds the amount of effort and time available to large parts of the playerbase.

I didn't have any issue with the MOP dailies. I simply didn't do them when I didn't feel like doing them, my raid accepted that. This, however, is not common.

[MoanaLisa]

Objectively speaking, the raw number of daily quests in MoP is comparable to the number of World Quests in Legion. And beyond that, everything else is subjective (liking/disliking the quests).

There are over a thousand world quests in Legion. There was nothing at all like that number of different daily quests in Mists. Objectively.

[styil]

There are over a thousand world quests in Legion. There was nothing at all like that number of different daily quests in Mists. Objectively.

Where did you get over a thousand from?

[Hctaz]

The only issue was that pretty much all of them were required for raiding in the beginning. If Blizzard had diversified the rewards each reputation gave you then it wouldn't have been an issue. Pet and mount collectors could have done one, raiders another, profession/gold farmers another, etc until they had all achieved their main focus and then could move on to a fresh daily experience for side rewards. Maybe the gold farmers maxed out their farm and then wanted to get some epic gear. Maybe the mount and pet collectors had gotten them all and wanted to work on their farm or something I dunno. It was just so many things locked behind so many different reputations. "This guy has the plate chest and str dps necklace. This guy has the plate boots. This guy has your trinket." and they were all different reputations.

Plus, anybody who felt like they wanted to be on curve with EVERYTHING was forced into doing a million dailies every single day or else they'd lose a day of some rep. If you wanted to upgrade your farm, get all the mounts, work on crafting recipes, get your epic gear, and keep your sanity... well you were SoL.

Edit to avoid double posting:

Where did you get over a thousand from?

They explicitly stated that they have over a thousand world quests in today's live stream. That doesn't mean they will all be active at once but basically they said that every couple of hours certain ones might go away and be replaced with another set of ones. You'll see A LOT of quests in one day but they won't be like the mandatory rep grinds of MoP.

[Cernunnos]

Most of the reps you couldnt even get to friendly let alone honored with by just questing in the leveling zones (unless you were a human). August Celestial dailies and Shado Pan dailies were both locked behind Golden Lotus revered. Golden Lotus dailies only gave 110 rep and there was only like 6 of them to start with then a few more at honored. Only Klaxxi initially had a source of gaining rep outside of dailies, even if it was a pretty low amount. All the pre raid epics were tied to both valor points and reputation.

Having raid quality gear locked behind reputations with no alternative means to gain it other than dailies was the big problem with the MOP dailies. You could gain the VP to buy the items from multiple sources, dungeons, raids scenarios and even the dailies themselves, but the rep could only be gotten from the dailies, and in such little amounts too. The dailies weren't like a lot of the TBC/wrath dailies that gave 250 rep or more before bonuses, many of the MOP dailies only gave 100 rep before bonuses. August Celestials did give 250 per quest but were locked behind Golden Lotus. This is why the commendations at revered which doubled rep gains account wide were added later, to speed up the grinds.



I will also mention that the mount from Alani was locked behind 3 factions. You needed order of the cloud serpents for cloud serpent riding, August Celestials exalted for some reason, and the August celestials dailies, like I said above was locked behind Golden Lotus.

MOP's dailie system was not the problem, the reward system was.

[Shakou]

I didn't read the thread to see if anyone already touched on this, but it's not just that MOP launched with a ridiculous amount of daily quests, it's that the rewards for doing them were extremely insufficient and it took forever to obtain the items offered for reputation, to a point of absolute absurdity. It was literally easier to just get gear from raids and ignore those rewards altogether until you got bored and decided to do it. Blizzard basically doubled down on this same mistake in WOD regarding Apexis gear.

If they're gonna have these kind of systems in game, they should involve reputations/currency you can earn in a timely manner while you are leveling up, or provide sufficient rewards obtainable later in game that are comparable to raid gear, if not in some cases better.

Basically this type of content outside of what I just described is little more than pointless filler content.

[huth]

It wasn't just that there were so many (it was pretty easy to hit the 25 per day limit, before they removed that), it was that you felt obligated to do them all, every day, for the faction gains. Which feeds into his other points about feeling punished for not logging in one day, and not seeing any rewards until 1-2 months down the line.

They removed the limit with 5.0. I.e. the MoP pre-patch. If anything, i'd say that was actually the big problem, people thought the proper way to do things was to do everything.

[MoanaLisa]

Where did you get over a thousand from?

It was in the damn interview and is in our summary:

Mists of Pandaria Daily Quests

• Mists of Pandaria initially had too many daily quests, but it did have some great content in the endgame.
• Legion is probably closer to a version 2 of the Mists of Pandaria daily quest system.
• The quests in Mists of Pandaria didn't feel especially rewarding. You got some rep and gold, but had to wait for a couple months to unlock the rep you needed. Until then the quests didn't really matter.
• You should feel like you can get cool stuff from quests every day.
• The quests in Mists of Pandaria had some variety, but in Legion there around 1000 world quests, so you will have lots of choices!
• In Mists of Pandaria you could quickly fall behind on daily quests, which wasn't ideal.
• In Legion if you don't log in for several days, you will have more world quests up when you log back in than someone who is clearing their map every day.
• There were some fun quests in Mists of Pandaria, such as the Roll Club!
• You may not see the same world boss more than a few times a year due to the huge amount of world quests.

[nekobaka]

The gating of VP gear behind daily reputation screwed over everyone who did not like dailies or preferred to do them at a more relaxed point as it was easy to hit the VP cap resulting in players losing a currency they had earned. Of course players are going to be mad regardless of being a raider, non-raider, casual, or hardcore.

It was not just organized raiders complaining. It was many different types of players complaining about being forced to do it in order to spend the VP rewards they earned. There has been epic rewards for daily grinds since at least BC and "raiders" complaints over them was minimal. Trying to pin the fault of lack of dailies on organized raiders is biased especially given that they was still a small minority among the forums that remained overwhelmingly pro-LFR.

Blizzard pulled the same shit with WoD by trying to make Garrisons mandatory in order to boost their popularity. Garrisons also was done by the same team that does dailies. Dont pin that choice around catering to raiders.

[styil]

It was in the damn interview and is in our summary:

Mists of Pandaria Daily Quests

• Mists of Pandaria initially had too many daily quests, but it did have some great content in the endgame.
• Legion is probably closer to a version 2 of the Mists of Pandaria daily quest system.
• The quests in Mists of Pandaria didn't feel especially rewarding. You got some rep and gold, but had to wait for a couple months to unlock the rep you needed. Until then the quests didn't really matter.
• You should feel like you can get cool stuff from quests every day.
• The quests in Mists of Pandaria had some variety, but in Legion there around 1000 world quests, so you will have lots of choices!
• In Mists of Pandaria you could quickly fall behind on daily quests, which wasn't ideal.
• In Legion if you don't log in for several days, you will have more world quests up when you log back in than someone who is clearing their map every day.
• There were some fun quests in Mists of Pandaria, such as the Roll Club!
• You may not see the same world boss more than a few times a year due to the huge amount of world quests.

Thanks for that. I read that section but somehow missed that line.

[Synadrasa]

There are over a thousand world quests in Legion. There was nothing at all like that number of different daily quests in Mists. Objectively.

On the beta I've already done a crazy amount of repeats. In fact I've literally done 2 of the same world quests back to back so I'm not sure if they've released all their world quests yet or that's just the way it is. Some world quests feel weird too. Like heroic dungeons give 825 ilvl and are much tougher but world quests are stupid easy and yet I get 840-50 ilvl gear all the time in a matter of minutes.

[styil]

On the beta I've already done a crazy amount of repeats. In fact I've literally done 2 of the same world quests back to back so I'm not sure if they've released all their world quests yet or that's just the way it is. Some world quests feel weird too. Like heroic dungeons give 825 ilvl and are much tougher but world quests are stupid easy and yet I get 840-50 ilvl gear all the time in a matter of minutes.

Or maybe they are including the leveling quests into that total. If that's the case, I am sure that MoP had more total quest content.