[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Raziie]

My questions still stand and they are ONLY for pre-patch, without artifact weapon but thanks for the stats.

[seamusmc]

My biggest concern right now is with our artifact starting ability. Are we seriously just getting floating swords? ._. We have had the Donald Trump of artifact weapons basically. "Eh don't worry guys it's just a placeholder. Nobody will care about it when the new ability gets put in anyway." *a few months later* "Look guys don't worry. See how goofy it looks? The swords aren't even animated and they're doing weird things. Clearly won't make it into live. Everybody else has a cool active ability" *expansion is almost here* "Uh..." *sweats a little* "Maybe unholy will be really awesome and we can all switch to it? I mean I don't like unholy but their active ability is at least more respectable than floating swords, right?..." *turns aside* "Oh god how did they let this go live?!" *crystalline swords immediately proceeds to spew shit from it's proc and then builds a wall*

As far as I know they are not place holder, in fact their particles and animation, (they move slightly as we move), have been improved.

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Considering the artifact system is in place...they will honestly have to do their best to keep all specs within 5-7% of each other aside from niche fights for all specs. They will REALLY piss people off if they spend lets say a month investing all Artifact Power into one artifact to find out it is grossly underperforming. This is honestly the first time I am optimistic about the specs going forward.

This is huge. I think the only time investment in a toon was so high was vanilla, because we had to hit level 50 in a much slower leveling environment. If they screw this up it will be costly.

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I don't know how they did it, but frost feels really slow right now to play. I always thought frost was the faster, more reactive version compared to unholy's fixed rotational cadence.

But for Unholy Doom is proccing constantly whereas Rime takes forever to proc, and rune regen for frost is so slow...

What is your ilvl and stats for Frost? At 110 with better gear the spec is much smoother. You should have played it when Rime procs were broken, yeesh that was fast.

[Freedom]

str>crit>haste

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.r7vu3z7l9c2t

Are you sure about Crit>Haste? Every other post I've read says Crit>Mastery, and that makes more sense, given at ~40% mastery I've read FScythe beats Oblit for damage, even discounting Rime.

[Hctaz]

As far as I know they are not place holder, in fact their particles and animation, (they move slightly as we move), have been improved.

Yeah sadly. The reason is that all I saw on the frost DK beta feedback thread was talks about how it was clearly a placeholder ability since everybody else had some cool active ability. Back in April people were claiming that there would be NO WAY that such a shit passive ability would make it to live and slowly it turned into "I dunno guys I think it's real" and then people pointing out the lack of animations where most of the other classes had finished stuff etc. So it's like the Donald Trump of class artifacts. Everybody thought it was a joke and now it's here and really annoyingly real.

[seamusmc]

Are you sure about Crit>Haste? Every other post I've read says Crit>Mastery, and that makes more sense, given at ~40% mastery I've read FScythe beats Oblit for damage, even discounting Rime.

I hope not, this will become a one button spec and wastes a good number of traits in the Artifact.

Its funny how they finally kill off 2H Frost, supposedly to make it easier to balance Frost and then they go introduce Frostscythe. They've put themselves right back into the same situation: They'll never be able to balance Frostsycthe builds vs Non-Frostscythe builds.

At the moment, with the 4 piece set bonus from WoD, Murderous Efficiency, and Obliteration I'm not able to keep Frost Fever up without using a few non-Rime Howling Blasts. I'm getting incredibly long strings of KM. For me, its a completely uninteresting play style.

[Mcsuiy]

Hi guys,
I have not read all the previous pages but thought I would post this if it was useful to people.
I took the Frost DK into Battle for Gilneas, was fun BUT feels a little naked atm, felt like I had to take Frostsythe in order have buttons to press!
That being said, I did enjoy it once I got used to the changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ssx00WKrVI

I'm not an expert DK or anything, used to play a lot of DK Wrath and Cata and a little bit of MoP and Wod, it feels strange atm.. more practice I suppose.

[Deleted]

>no generic disturbed music
>no massive over editing
>clicking
>backpeddling

0/10

[Mcsuiy]

>no disturbed music
>no massive over editing
>clicking
>backpeddling

0/10

Thank fella

To be fair, I've been doing it a week, I'm not 100% sure what music I am permitted to play (for copyright) and clicking / back peddling doesn't fuss me.
Would like to run music when I'm playing just not sure what the rules are just yet, it was purely to show the Frost DK in a BG.

Thanks for the feedback tho.

[RuneDK]

I don't know how they did it, but frost feels really slow right now to play. I always thought frost was the faster, more reactive version compared to unholy's fixed rotational cadence.

But for Unholy Doom is proccing constantly whereas Rime takes forever to proc, and rune regen for frost is so slow...

Yea, I feel doom is proc'ing a lot more on beta than live. Would love to see if it's a bug similar to Rime.

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From my experience at 100 at least, Murderous Efficiency and Horn of Winter are required to consistently avoid those long stretches with nothing happening.

ME yes, I have yet to play with horn of winter and don't have too much of a problem. It depends if you have the 4pc T18 too. I tend to use Frostscythe a lot more due to the KM proc not being consumed. If you don't have 4pc T18 I can definitely see it being a problem and needing to go HoW.

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Yeah sadly. The reason is that all I saw on the frost DK beta feedback thread was talks about how it was clearly a placeholder ability since everybody else had some cool active ability. Back in April people were claiming that there would be NO WAY that such a shit passive ability would make it to live and slowly it turned into "I dunno guys I think it's real" and then people pointing out the lack of animations where most of the other classes had finished stuff etc. So it's like the Donald Trump of class artifacts. Everybody thought it was a joke and now it's here and really annoyingly real.

I honestly think it should be a dancing rune weapon esque ability for frost that mimics our attacks with all frost damage. The passive part of them and them just floating next to us is pretty stupid. However, we do get an on use ability...it's just not our starter one. The other three golden traits for unholy are passive.

[seamusmc]

Hi guys,
I have not read all the previous pages but thought I would post this if it was useful to people.
I took the Frost DK into Battle for Gilneas, was fun BUT feels a little naked atm, felt like I had to take Frostsythe in order have buttons to press!
That being said, I did enjoy it once I got used to the changed.
[

Using Frostscythe you will have less buttons to press. You should only use Frostscythe on KM or 3+ targets and it does not generate Rime procs so you will be using Howling Blast a lot less. With 4 pc WoD bonus it almost becomes a one button spec.

Personally I hate the ability, makes combat less smooth and reduces the value of several talents, abilities and traits. I can't imagine this is their intention. One talent should not have this much impact on a class.

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Are you sure about Crit>Haste? Every other post I've read says Crit>Mastery, and that makes more sense, given at ~40% mastery I've read FScythe beats Oblit for damage, even discounting Rime.

I imagine its because more crit and more haste means more KM which means more Frostscythe. More Frostscythe's may be better over harder hitting Frostscythe.

[Mcsuiy]

Using Frostscythe you will have less buttons to press. You should only use Frostscythe on KM or 3+ targets and it does not generate Rime procs so you will be using Howling Blast a lot less. With 4 pc WoD bonus it almost becomes a one button spec.

Personally I hate the ability, makes combat less smooth and reduces the value of several talents, abilities and traits. I can't imagine this is their intention. One talent should not have this much impact on a class.

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I imagine its because more crit and more haste means more KM which means more Frostscythe. More Frostscythe's may be better over harder hitting Frostscythe.

Thanks for mentioning that, I used it because I had nothing to press, should have read the talents more closely.

[RuneDK]

Using Frostscythe you will have less buttons to press. You should only use Frostscythe on KM or 3+ targets and it does not generate Rime procs so you will be using Howling Blast a lot less. With 4 pc WoD bonus it almost becomes a one button spec.

Personally I hate the ability, makes combat less smooth and reduces the value of several talents, abilities and traits. I can't imagine this is their intention. One talent should not have this much impact on a class.

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I imagine its because more crit and more haste means more KM which means more Frostscythe. More Frostscythe's may be better over harder hitting Frostscythe.

With the T18 set bonus I see mastery > haste simply because you can go on long streaks of just hitting frostscythe. Problem is, FSc will be completely unbalanced with the T18 set bonus...once we lose that, FSc isn't as mandatory as it seems and the spec actually gets a bit more fun.

[seamusmc]

Thanks for mentioning that, I used it because I had nothing to press, should have read the talents more closely.

Without KM Frostscythe hits like a wet noodle. Its the 4X crit it gets that makes it powerful.

[RuneDK]

Without KM Frostscythe hits like a wet noodle. Its the 4X crit it gets that makes it powerful.

Which is why the spec turns into basically a machine gun spec single button spec in prepatch. I have on beta, gone two full rune cycles with the KM buff up. And it's been consumed on the first use. RNG will suck...but that's what causes the spec to seem like an at most two button spec right now for PTR/prepatch.

[Freedom]

I imagine its because more crit and more haste means more KM which means more Frostscythe. More Frostscythe's may be better over harder hitting Frostscythe.

Without enough Mastery, Fscythe (which is Frost damage) doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it even with KM up single target over Oblit KM. It hits for just 120% weapondamage as Frost - hardly worth spending a rune on with low mastery and no KM. With high crit (high chance FScythe will crit even without KM, AND higher chance of KM being up in the first place) and Mastery(higher frost damage as opposed to Oblit's physical) Fscythe is better, from what I've read.

Keep in mind KM now comes from autoattack critical strikes, and not just a flat chance on autoattack, meaning haste is lower in value compared to live.

[Deleted]

Anybody else finding the frost artifact ridiculously over tuned?

Did it with a 739 ilvl and died a couple of times to single mobs. Seem to be struggling to do more than 50k dps aswell on mobs with over 1m hp

[psyquest]

Anybody else finding the frost artifact ridiculously over tuned?

Did it with a 739 ilvl and died a couple of times to single mobs. Seem to be struggling to do more than 50k dps aswell on mobs with over 1m hp

The quest require you to use all your abilities and it scales with your ilvl. I did with my DK at 742ilvl. Hard at times but you need to use your stuff.

hint:
control undead (oh yes)
ams is nice
stuns are nice too

[Maxweii]

Anybody else finding the frost artifact ridiculously over tuned?

Did it with a 739 ilvl and died a couple of times to single mobs. Seem to be struggling to do more than 50k dps aswell on mobs with over 1m hp

A shitty but good trick to do is lower your ilvl via taking off a neck or ring piece

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I hope not, this will become a one button spec and wastes a good number of traits in the Artifact.

Its funny how they finally kill off 2H Frost, supposedly to make it easier to balance Frost and then they go introduce Frostscythe. They've put themselves right back into the same situation: They'll never be able to balance Frostsycthe builds vs Non-Frostscythe builds.

At the moment, with the 4 piece set bonus from WoD, Murderous Efficiency, and Obliteration I'm not able to keep Frost Fever up without using a few non-Rime Howling Blasts. I'm getting incredibly long strings of KM. For me, its a completely uninteresting play style.

Things aren't tuned for Warlods/level 100. They are tuned for level 110. So when you're sitting in end expansion raid gear/tier in the prepatch of an expansion, of course things are going to be weird Cus things aren't balanced for that. Nothing wrong with the spec because of that its just how it works out when balanced for a higher level.

[Deleted]

The quest require you to use all your abilities and it scales with your ilvl. I did with my DK at 742ilvl. Hard at times but you need to use your stuff.

hint:
control undead (oh yes)
ams is nice
stuns are nice too

Tried the controlling the undead, was still fairly dangerous and slow.

Made another copy and did the frost artifact within 12 mins in blood spec. Simples

[psyquest]

Tried the controlling the undead, was still fairly dangerous and slow.

Made another copy and did the frost artifact within 12 mins in blood spec. Simples

also CS is useful (if unholy) . you can kite and hit from a distance when it gets hairy.

with frost you need all CC and kite as well.