Legion Pre-patch unholy: Are there haste caps?

[Reinholder]

With haste looking like the strongest stat for unholy in the prepatch, wondering if there are any haste caps we should be aiming for. I'd read somewhere that x amount of haste meant an extra Dark Arbiter attack but can't remember what x was or even where I saw it now :/

[Marx]

GCD is affected by haste so stack as much as you can.

[Deleted]

GCD is affected by haste so stack as much as you can.

haste till around 15-20% , masteyr, crit, haste, versa imo. mastery increases your dmg by so much escpially in prepatch where in super easy to go over 100% and haste is our most expensive stat, and with to much haste youl never be able to get spend resources fast enough and theryby losing dmg. if youre going DA just get enough haste for it to get another attack in and then mastery.

[Deleted]

haste till around 15-20% , masteyr, crit, haste, versa imo. mastery increases your dmg by so much escpially in prepatch where in super easy to go over 100% and haste is our most expensive stat, and with to much haste youl never be able to get spend resources fast enough and theryby losing dmg. if youre going DA just get enough haste for it to get another attack in and then mastery.

I´m sorry, but the entire post is incorrect.

1) haste is the least expensive stat in terms of ratings
2) since the GCD gets scaled down, you will always be equally ressource capped unless you have more than 100% haste (softcap)
3) it´s not only about the DA getting another attack in, but also about the player spending more RP faster

[Deleted]

mastery defintily is cheaper then haste , on ptr i get 1,4% haste from 140 haste, and 2,86% mastery from same amount of stat. mastery increases dmg if evrything buy auto attacks, apocalypse(the intital hit not wounds exploding) and fesetring strike. and imo you go haste till your fine with your rune regen and then mastery. DA/gargoyle, Cs/SS, defile/DnD, outbreak and our plague deathcoil the wound dmg.

[Kronik85]

mastery defintily is cheaper then haste , on ptr i get 1,4% haste from 140 haste, and 2,86% mastery from same amount of stat. mastery increases dmg if evrything buy auto attacks, apocalypse(the intital hit not wounds exploding) and fesetring strike. and imo you go haste till your fine with your rune regen and then mastery. DA/gargoyle, Cs/SS, defile/DnD, outbreak and our plague deathcoil the wound dmg.

You don't seem to be getting that Haste has no effect on GCD capping. Haste now effects the GCD so whilst you're gaining runes at a faster rate you're also spending them at a faster rate, the net effect is that there is no longer a Haste cap.

[Deleted]

i get haste effects our gcd . and haste has as far i know Always effected the gcd. currently icy veins has stat priorty for legion unholy. if your using defile mastery will prolly be best and if DA haste.
1.Strength
2.Mastery => Haste.
3.Critical Strike;
4.Versatility.
for da

and
1.Strength;
2.Haste => Mastery;
3.Critical Strike;
4.Versatility.
for soulreaper.
it will be possible to overcap resources with to much haste, you want to never cap rp or runes(unless right before DA) your using your runes and due runic tatoos trait you get quite bit more rp, and you can have happen your using runes and if you use another rune youl cap rp, so you spent your rp but while your doing that all your runes are back.

[Kronik85]

i get haste effects our gcd . and haste has as far i know Always effected the gcd. currently icy veins has stat priorty for legion unholy.

No, it's never effected our GCD before this pre patch, that's why it's historically been pretty trash, in WotLK all it did was increase auto attack speed since rune regen was capped at 10 secs, in Cata they changed it to effect rune regen but we've always capped out quickly and it's never been worth aiming for a soft cap. Before WoD Unholy presence used to lower the GCD to 1 sec from 1.5 since WoD all specs have had a 1 sec GCD.

Stat weights are currently unknown but the Icy Veins prio seems about right compared to what people have got from testing.

[Deleted]

mastery defintily is cheaper then haste , on ptr i get 1,4% haste from 140 haste, and 2,86% mastery from same amount of stat. mastery increases dmg if evrything buy auto attacks, apocalypse(the intital hit not wounds exploding) and fesetring strike. and imo you go haste till your fine with your rune regen and then mastery. DA/gargoyle, Cs/SS, defile/DnD, outbreak and our plague deathcoil the wound dmg.

So what you mean is that 1% shadowdmg is cheaper than 1% haste. That´s correct, but that´s just how the mastery is build.
Hint: 1% shadowdmg is not the same as 1% mastery.

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i get haste effects our gcd . and haste has as far i know Always effected the gcd. currently icy veins has stat priorty for legion unholy. if your using defile mastery will prolly be best and if DA haste.
1.Strength
2.Mastery => Haste.
3.Critical Strike;
4.Versatility.
for da

and
1.Strength;
2.Haste => Mastery;
3.Critical Strike;
4.Versatility.
for soulreaper.
it will be possible to overcap resources with to much haste, you want to never cap rp or runes(unless right before DA) your using your runes and due runic tatoos trait you get quite bit more rp, and you can have happen your using runes and if you use another rune youl cap rp, so you spent your rp but while your doing that all your runes are back.

Using icy veins as a reference, cannot really be an argument as they are looking exactly at this place to build a somewhat vague stat weighting for the guides.
Haste has never before affected the GCD of the deathknight class, and that is exactly the reason why it was so bad in the past. The only argument that you can make against haste, is that it doesnt help our disease and dnd damage at all. Meaning its mediocre for AoE.

[Deleted]

@burk23 Not sure how you came up with the conclusion that "Icy Veins" are looking exactly at this place to build stat weights. I'm still waiting for sims and if something changes i'd make sure to update the guide if necessary. Meanwhile i would appreciate if you don't talk about "Icy Veins" if you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

So what you mean is that 1% shadowdmg is cheaper than 1% haste. That´s correct, but that´s just how the mastery is build.
Hint: 1% shadowdmg is not the same as 1% mastery.

- - - Updated - - -



Using icy veins as a reference, cannot really be an argument as they are looking exactly at this place to build a somewhat vague stat weighting for the guides.
Haste has never before affected the GCD of the deathknight class, and that is exactly the reason why it was so bad in the past. The only argument that you can make against haste, is that it doesnt help our disease and dnd damage at all. Meaning its mediocre for AoE.

and then haste as best st stat, and mastery as best aoe stat? and what you mean with 1%shdw dmg inst = to 1%mastery, our masteyr increases out shdw dmg done = to its % , so i dont really get what you mean.

[Kronik85]

@burk23 Not sure how you came up with the conclusion that "Icy Veins" are looking exactly at this place to build stat weights. I'm still waiting for sims and if something changes i'd make sure to update the guide if necessary. Meanwhile i would appreciate if you don't talk about "Icy Veins" if you have no idea what you are talking about.

I was browsing over your Frost guide earlier but is it actually up to date for latest round of changes? You say Avalanche is still good but everyone else is saying it's Hungering Rune Weapon or Icecap for that tier after the nerf. Same for Bursting Sores in the Unholy guide, lots of people reporting it's pretty good now after the FW buffs.

Thank you for taking the time to compile the guides. Oh and how did you come up with that formula for gearing with Frost?

Critical Strike > Haste (to a ratio of 1.3 Critical Strike to 1 Haste);

Not critiquing, just genuinely interested.

[Deleted]

@Kronik85 Avalanche was simming higher than Icecap even with the nerfs, the only question i've got in my head right now is if 4p t18 is gonna make Icecap superrior which might turn to be the case. I would update that section as soon as possible if needed be, waiting on logs and need to test it myself. Regarding Festering Wounds i already commented in the guide section which you can find in the comments. Usually yes i would say that Bursting Wounds should be the talent to pick for single target but on beta Ebon Fever was doing so much more for both single and aoe dmg. Possibly because we had tons of mastery but even then Festering Wounds scales with mastery too. Gonna go through lots of logs tonight and tomorrow and see how things turn to be on live. Keep in mind that everything is tunned for 110 with Artifact Weapons and not for lvl100.

Regarding the frost stat weights i've got the help from friend of mine basically having too much crit doesn't work that well with frost if you don't have the haste to back it up. The frost stat weights were simmed, mastery is 3rd but on AOE is a monster of a stat. I appreciate any feedback you guys can give me and i'd use it if it's gonna help more people.

[Deleted]

@burk23 Not sure how you came up with the conclusion that "Icy Veins" are looking exactly at this place to build stat weights. I'm still waiting for sims and if something changes i'd make sure to update the guide if necessary. Meanwhile i would appreciate if you don't talk about "Icy Veins" if you have no idea what you are talking about.

All I know is that exactly that was done in the case of warriors a while back. Since then I haven´t really looked at it seriously anymore.

[Deleted]

@burk23 Well i'm here to assure you that isn't the case, not that i wont take any useful information if it's gonna help me and everyone else. Like i said all i want is to provide trust worthy information for everyone and help as many people as possible. Not sure what the stat weights are on mmo or any other source but they haven't been taken from anywhere else but my own research even if they turn to be wrong. Sims are gonna clear things out soon enough i'm sure.

P.S. Stat Weights were updated and should be fixed for now.