Simulationcraft results for 7.0 Legion PrePatch

[LordCrispin]

Anyone able to give a quick overview on how to play assassination in the pre patch or chuck me a link to a place that has it?

Doesn't have to be crazy just a prio for spells/ what not to cast when etc as I'm rerolling I played rogues for a bit on the alpha and that was my extent of testing really xD

Thanks for the sim results thou!

Look up icy veins assassination guide. It has been updated for prepatch.

[shaunika123]

Anyone able to give a quick overview on how to play assassination in the pre patch or chuck me a link to a place that has it?

Doesn't have to be crazy just a prio for spells/ what not to cast when etc as I'm rerolling I played rogues for a bit on the alpha and that was my extent of testing really xD

Thanks for the sim results thou!

keep up rupture/garrote/hemmorhage
use exsang when rupture is 22+sec
use mutilate as filler
use envenom when 5-6 cp and 100+ energy
use vanish to snapshot rupture(and preferably sync it with exsanguinate) this is only if you're running nightstalker but that's the best so yeah

those are the basics.



edit: master of subtlety seems totally bugged atm(if you use dance/vanish while it's up it wont refresh and expire)
is weaponmaster better or should we just suck it up and not use dance before MoS expires?

[Eazy]

What about Go'ashan's Lodestone Spike(<- click!)? I heard it's a nice trinket for Assassination rogues.

[Kazkek]

After doing Mythic Mannoroth and Mythic Archimonde attempts (since there are some bugs), it feels like these simulations are waaaaaaaaaay off. Guildy Outlaw Rogue was pretty much always outdpsing me and by 10-15k. I was usually doing 65k-75k. I mean, I could be messing it up pretty badly but the damage feels no where near where it should be, according to this Sim. They might've changed some things before release or things might be bugged.

I understand there are going to be some messy things but here are our logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...zpXHW#fight=24

EDIT: I was doing some testing on Manno to see how things went so disregard the kill dps especially for that fight.

Your rotation is off. Your opener is off.

Start of the fight Stealth > Garrote > Hemo > Rupture (yes rupture with 2-3 CPs) > Vendetta > Mut (6CPs) > Vanish > Rupture (see now you have a pandemic rupture) > Exsang > Mut (6CPs) > Envenom > Mut (6CPs) > Rupture > Garrote > Hemo .. go into normal rotation

Keep up Rupture, Garrote, Hemo and thats it = 100k dps.

You want to make sure that you are coupling Vendetta + Ring with a Vanish then Rupture. You get 50% extra damage from the rupture with the nightstalker talent.

[Eazy]

Your rotation is off. Your opener is off.

Start of the fight Stealth > Garrote > Hemo > Rupture (yes rupture with 2-3 CPs) > Vendetta > Mut (6CPs) > Vanish > Rupture (see now you have a pandemic rupture) > Exsang > Mut (6CPs) > Envenom > Mut (6CPs) > Rupture > Garrote > Hemo .. go into normal rotation

Keep up Rupture, Garrote, Hemo and thats it = 100k dps.

You want to make sure that you are coupling Vendetta + Ring with a Vanish then Rupture. You get 50% extra damage from the rupture with the nightstalker talent.

On the Icy Veins it shows:
Always start the pull from Stealth Icon Stealth.
Use Draenic Agility Potion.
Apply Garrote.
Activate Vendetta on the primary target.
Cast Mutilate twice.
-If you have 6 Combo Points, activate Vanish then cast Rupture. Finally, apply Hemorrhage.
-If you do not have 6 Combo Points, apply Hemorrhage , then Vanish and apply Rupture I.
Cast Exsanguinate.
Generate Combo Points with Mutilate and dump with Envenom at 6 Combo Points.
Reapply Rupture, Hemorrhage, and Garrote as necessary.

Was wondering if casting Vendetta AFTER two mutilates would increase it damage.

[Kalador]

On the Icy Veins it shows:
Always start the pull from Stealth Icon Stealth.
Use Draenic Agility Potion.
Apply Garrote.
Activate Vendetta on the primary target.
Cast Mutilate twice.
-If you have 6 Combo Points, activate Vanish then cast Rupture. Finally, apply Hemorrhage.
-If you do not have 6 Combo Points, apply Hemorrhage , then Vanish and apply Rupture I.
Cast Exsanguinate.
Generate Combo Points with Mutilate and dump with Envenom at 6 Combo Points.
Reapply Rupture, Hemorrhage, and Garrote as necessary.

Was wondering if casting Vendetta AFTER two mutilates would increase it damage.

I really don't know if it's optimal but I'm doing stealth - garotte - hemo - mut to 6 CP - vanish - rupture - vendetta - exsang....
It feels pretty good...

I don't know if the all trick to go to pandemic rupture exsang is worth it... Might be but it really feels weird

[Symphonic]

I really don't know if it's optimal but I'm doing stealth - garotte - hemo - mut to 6 CP - vanish - rupture - vendetta - exsang....
It feels pretty good...

I don't know if the all trick to go to pandemic rupture exsang is worth it... Might be but it really feels weird

I think it should go: stealth, prepot > mut, mut, hemo, vanish, rupture, vendetta, mut until low energy, exsang, THEN garrote. I think a lot of people aren't realizing that garrote is no longer a "from stealth only" move.

When we have an artifact, kingsbane will be cast immediately after vendetta.

[overdose]

From my understanding, the staggered vendetta is for the instant energy cap artifact trait. Since we don't have artifact traits yet, I have been using vendetta instantly on pull after garrote for full benefit with the ring.

[shaunika123]

I really don't know if it's optimal but I'm doing stealth - garotte - hemo - mut to 6 CP - vanish - rupture - vendetta - exsang....
It feels pretty good...

I don't know if the all trick to go to pandemic rupture exsang is worth it... Might be but it really feels weird

if you go pandemic rupture you'll overcap on energy 100% i just tested it, but it might still be worth the damage i dont know

[Symphonic]

From my understanding, the staggered vendetta is for the instant energy cap artifact trait. Since we don't have artifact traits yet, I have been using vendetta instantly on pull after garrote for full benefit with the ring.

You're right, I was using it as if I was getting energy from it, which we're not yet.

[Kalador]

I think it should go: stealth, prepot > mut, mut, hemo, vanish, rupture, vendetta, mut until low energy, exsang, THEN garrote. I think a lot of people aren't realizing that garrote is no longer a "from stealth only" move.

When we have an artifact, kingsbane will be cast immediately after vendetta.

if you garotte from stealth it benefit from nightstalker.... i don't know if it's better to mut from stealth or to garotte from it tho... i tried both opening with mut or garotte from stealth but I really don't know wht is better XD and both felt good... also i don't cap energy even without mut before exsang like you say, and if u do vanish rupture vandetta exsang you have energy to go for mut mut envenom mut mut rupture just as exsang rupture drop off, also if you garotte from stealth it's almost off cooldown after it drop from exsang.... i don't know if it's better but it was flowing pretty good so a least it got that

i did some pull with vendetta after first attack on pull and it felt good 2, i really dont know if it's better XD in the end i think it's all really close

I'm gona try garotte - vandetta - hemo - mut to 6cp - vanish - rupture - exsang // mut - vendetta - garotte - hemo - (mut if needed for 6cp) - vanish - rupture - exsang tonight and see what i like better

---- edit ----

if you go pandemic rupture you'll overcap on energy 100% i just tested it, but it might still be worth the damage i dont know

yeah it also very wierd to delay exsang for that long.... might be worth it but i just don't like it lol.

---- 2nd edit ----

it's also very very very fun... i'm really enjoying playing both assa and outlaw... many people were QQ during my raid last night about their ''new class'' but damn i had so much fun, assa exsang playstyle and outlaw really feels good 2 play!

[shaunika123]

if you garotte from stealth it benefit from nightstalker.... i don't know if it's better to mut from stealth or to garotte from it tho... i tried both opening with mut or garotte from stealth but I really don't know wht is better XD and both felt good... also i don't cap energy even without mut before exsang like you say, and if u do vanish rupture vandetta exsang you have energy to go for mut mut envenom mut mut rupture just as exsang rupture drop off, also if you garotte from stealth it's almost off cooldown after it drop from exsang.... i don't know if it's better but it was flowing pretty good so a least it got that

i did some pull with vendetta after first attack on pull and it felt good 2, i really dont know if it's better XD in the end i think it's all really close

I'm gona try garotte - vandetta - hemo - mut to 6cp - vanish - rupture - exsang // mut - vendetta - garotte - hemo - (mut if needed for 6cp) - vanish - rupture - exsang tonight and see what i like better

---- edit ----



yeah it also very wierd to delay exsang for that long.... might be worth it but i just don't like it lol.

---- 2nd edit ----

it's also very very very fun... i'm really enjoying playing both assa and outlaw... many people were QQ during my raid last night about their ''new class'' but damn i had so much fun, assa exsang playstyle and outlaw really feels good 2 play!

i really enjoy sub as well

constantly being in shadow dance is really fun

it's probably my favourite spec of the 3

my problem with outlaw is that it's so extreme, either you get insanely good RTBs and SS procs and overflow on everything, or yoU're starving for procs and can barely get enough energy for anything

[Kalador]

i really enjoy sub as well

constantly being in shadow dance is really fun

it's probably my favourite spec of the 3

my problem with outlaw is that it's so extreme, either you get insanely good RTBs and SS procs and overflow on everything, or yoU're starving for procs and can barely get enough energy for anything

Yeah I need to play new sub will probably do in alt raid this week to get the feeling. It's Iooking fun! For outlaw it's true that it is super RNG but I had a lot of fun with it on AoE fights and mythic dungeons... Cannonball barrage or whatever it's called hit's like a truck on AoE packs it's rly fun. Can't wait for raid tonight!!

[therayeffect]

Your rotation is off. Your opener is off.

Start of the fight Stealth > Garrote > Hemo > Rupture (yes rupture with 2-3 CPs) > Vendetta > Mut (6CPs) > Vanish > Rupture (see now you have a pandemic rupture) > Exsang > Mut (6CPs) > Envenom > Mut (6CPs) > Rupture > Garrote > Hemo .. go into normal rotation

Keep up Rupture, Garrote, Hemo and thats it = 100k dps.

You want to make sure that you are coupling Vendetta + Ring with a Vanish then Rupture. You get 50% extra damage from the rupture with the nightstalker talent.

As the previous few posts have worked out, it'll be best to pop Vend after Garrote and pop Exsang as soon as all Bleeds are up (with a vanish rupture) because right now synergy with the ring is king. Considering how much our bleeds matter, not knowing Garrote was usable outside of stealth might make enough of a difference that I don't feel so bad about my damage.

I do want to add that Assassination does indeed feel pretty fun and did so on the Beta too, for the small testing I did of it. I don't think Assassination AoE will be that great in raid situations but I enjoyed Assassination enough on the Beta to give pause to my desires to go DH.

[Aethys256]

I updated the spreadsheet (added BrF trinkets & simming against Demon, + every new SimC changes).

I'll answer the different posts after my raid and make it a FAQ in the first post.

[Kalador]

I updated the spreadsheet (added BrF trinkets & simming against Demon, + every new SimC changes).

I'll answer the different posts after my raid and make it a FAQ in the first post.

thank you for you're work!

[Blayke]

I have question about Premed vs. Alacrity. I see the value of each, but it seems to me that extra haste (which I assume still translates into faster energy regen and more white swings (which in turn translate into more cp's) is preferable over simply getting an extra cp from SS, especially where cp generation is not really an issue with sub, whereas energy regen is pretty much an issue with all rogues.

But I'm not much of a theorycrafter, so any and all answers are welcome. Thanks.

[kindath]

I have question about Premed vs. Alacrity. I see the value of each, but it seems to me that extra haste (which I assume still translates into faster energy regen and more white swings (which in turn translate into more cp's) is preferable over simply getting an extra cp from SS, especially where cp generation is not really an issue with sub, whereas energy regen is pretty much an issue with all rogues.

But I'm not much of a theorycrafter, so any and all answers are welcome. Thanks.

Sub spends a lot of time Shadow Striking instead of Backstabbing, so premeditation actually works out to be a lot of combo points. More combo points means more finishers, which means more damage, more energy returned from relentless strikes, and also more shadowdances via Deepening Shadows and energy via Master of Shadows.

Haste increases energy regen, but not by very much. It increases combo point gain from Shadowy Techniques, but not as much as Premeditation does. It increases autoattack damage, but autoattack damage is a very small portion of sub's overall damage.

They both do the same thing, it's just a math problem of which does it better. They are actually fairly close, as you can see in the graphs, but premed currently has the advantage. (And it probably should, since premeditation requires planning out shadow dances and carries the risk of overcapping combo points)

[shadowboy]

My recommendation for the outlaw APL: Between the Eyes' damage-per-energy equals run through's @ approximately 42.8% effective crit so (45.8% crit when hitting a raid boss--see below for derivation). This means IF you have the Shark Infested Waters buff, then it becomes advantageous to prioritize between the eyes above run through (I'd put it below death from above, though).

I'd add this to the finisher sub-apl inbetween DfA and RT:
actions+=/between_the_eyes,if=buff.shark_infested_waters.up

Note: If you take SnD, you should almost never use BtE, and if you have the Bleeding Hollow Toxin Vessel, you should absolutely never use Between the Eyes for its damage (the trinket makes Run Through crits do more damage than Between the Eyes crits--even factoring in the double damage of BtE crits)


Derivation:
Run Through scales with 120% of attack power, Between the Eyes scales with 75% of attack power. Both cost 35 energy so the damage per energy on both directly scales with the attack power coefficients.

First let's see at what critical strike chance that between the eyes breaks even.

Let's set the damage to RT as this: 1.2 * (1 + x)
Second, let's set BtE damage as this: 0.75 * (1 + 3x)

Set the two terms equal and solve for x, and you get x = 0.4285 (or thereabouts). Since bosses have a 1% crit suppression for each level above you, you'd need to add 3% crit to get your character sheet crit chance for the crossover point of Between the eyes, so 45.8% crit.

Most players will not have 45.8% passive crit chance, but the extra 40% crit from Shark Infested Waters will put you to 55% crit even with absolutely no crit from gear. Therefore, with the crit RtB buff, Between the Eyes will be better than Run Through, always. Without the crit buff, if you have ~45.8% crit or better, then it's better to use on cooldown at all times, even with SnD.

[Aethys256]

I already tried it Shadowboy, but it was a dps loss.
And it's even more at level 110 due to the Greed Artifact Trait working only on RT.