Human Rights Groups: US airstrikes have killed more than 100 innocent Syrians.

[TheMediator]

pseudo liberals care only when the victims are Muslims because we don't see them going around blaming the U.S. for killing more than a 200k Japanese civilians in Hiroshima.

Maybe not all liberals, because they know that you can't criticize the US military on a platform where your personal identity is exposed without being brigaded by fanatics, but I've said myself on this forum I think it's pathetic that in the US we stole the term "ground zero" for use in relation to 9/11 from the Japanese, who used the term in reference to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. The dropping of the atomic bombs are the undisputed largest terror attacks in human history as far as I know.

[ghotihook]

I'm a liberal, as are many people in this thread who aren't saying the things you're suggesting we're saying here.

Wait, they don't kick you out of Texas for that?!

[Jotaux]

Allow a radicalized Caliphate to develop and prosper on Europe's doorstep with the expressed purpose of bringing about the end of the world?

Yeah, that sounds like a much better plan. /s

It's a better plan than creating an environment for a radicalized Caliphate to thrive. The US has been creating their own enemies since after WW2.

[Reeve]

Wait, they don't kick you out of Texas for that?!

Texas is a few blueberries in a sea of raspberries. I live in one of the blueberries.

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It's a better plan than creating an environment for a radicalized Caliphate to thrive. The US has been creating their own enemies since after WW2.

The radicalized Caliphate will thrive if we DON'T take up arms against them. If anything, US involvement (and EU involvement) have prevented ISIS from taking Baghdad and Syria and continuing to grow from there.

[Jotaux]

The radicalized Caliphate will thrive if we DON'T take up arms against them. If anything, US involvement (and EU involvement) have prevented ISIS from taking Baghdad and Syria and continuing to grow from there.

The very existence of ISIS is because of US involvement.

[Reeve]

The very existence of ISIS is because of US involvement.

The existence of ISIS is because of ISIS.

The fact that Hussein wasn't there to quash them quickly is because the US (And Europe and Canada, btw) removed him from power. I wasn't a fan of the Iraq war to begin with, and protested against it when I was at University.

But that's water under the bridge. We have to deal with the situation as it is now. ISIS isn't going to stop ISISing because we go away. They'll just become emboldened and take more territory. And then they'll grow more powerful, convince more gullible Muslims in the Western world that they're the true Caliphate owed allegiance by true Muslims, consolidate power, and continue their attack. If we're really unlucky, they'll manage to get their hands on some nuclear weapons too.

ISIS has a stated goal to bring about the end of the world. They aren't going to just sit back and be satisfied if we leave.

[ParanoiD84]

But does that matter when they kill your children?
"Yeah, I thought about getting revenge but then I remembered they are trying to help me.", said nobody ever.
ISIS is their only chance at actually getting that revenge.

I can agree on that i dont think they think very clear with all things going on so joining isis may seem like the only option for them. And there is also the chance that they will be told to behead or just kill civilians if joining them, making them just as bad in the process even if they think they are doing the right thing.

[Rooflesstoofless]

That's like, what? Two, maybe three mass shootings worth of lives?

[Tijuana]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/world/...an-casualties/

The body count of innocent civilians is piling up under the leadership and Nobel Peace Prize winner, President Obama. I thought we had better intel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...taken-for-isi/

US air strike in Syria kills up to 85 civilians 'mistaken for Isil fighters

With, at last count, 5-6 armies operating in and above Syria, how do they even know who is bombing what?

[Calfredd]

I always wonder how innocent people are who live that close to people being bombed. Of course, there are many tragedies when it comes to this stuff, but if a combatant who has killed others in the name of radical Islam lives with his wife who knows about the things he does and still lives with him, I wouldn't really consider her innocent, and assuming she wasn't killed, how many of the man's children will we have to kill in the future if she was still alive.

Generally speaking, you can't hide among civilians unless the civilians are complicit on some level with it. Obviously you can't assign 100% moral blame to someone who hasn't pulled a trigger, but we have a well established civil system in the US that recognizes the significant contributions of someone in the home to a spouse who has a successful career, we should have the same standard for those who support our enemies.

You are applying Western morals and ideas to a Middle Eastern country where women can't walk outside by themselves and divorce is unheard of. If a woman knows that her husband is a radical Islamist, she can't do anything about it; it's either live with that man or die and most people would rather live.

[Forgettable]

Is that all? I thought the number was a lot higher. Still sad, of course.

[Tijuana]

Classic liberal thinking 101: Dictators are fine and can oppress all they like, but don't you dare harm a flea in an effort to depose them.

I mean never mind that there is a giant civil war going on, with thousands and thousands of other deaths. But those two misplaced bombs, that is the work of the devil, I say.

[judgementofantonidas]

just because it is a war zone doesnt make its OK for a US drone to mistakenly kill 85 people

then they should police their own instead of us needing to go spank their bad children.

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I wouldn't object to leaving the Syrian situation in the hands of the so much more wiser Europeans. They can spend the money. Accomplish nothing. Then we can watch their nations slowly turn into Islamic nations they apparently were meant to be.

like france?

[Kraenen]

More than 100 in an active war zone? Sad, but kind of low for what you'd expect in, you know, war.

Yeah I was going to say... not to downplay innocent people getting killed but this was a lot lower than I was expecting.

[judgementofantonidas]

While I think hiding among civilians is morally dispicable, I'd say that when all you've got is an AK-74, and you're up against a military with F-22s, AC-130s, and Avenger Drones, it's not "courageous" or "brave" to stand out in the open waving about your guns and flag. It's foolhardy.

however that describes their whole movement.

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people are either retarded, naïve, or both if they expect military action to be taken when only 100% certain

besides, it could have been 99 isis supporters and 1 innocent bystander and once it made the news all the isis supporters would be innocents.

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I always wonder how innocent people are who live that close to people being bombed. Of course, there are many tragedies when it comes to this stuff, but if a combatant who has killed others in the name of radical Islam lives with his wife who knows about the things he does and still lives with him, I wouldn't really consider her innocent, and assuming she wasn't killed, how many of the man's children will we have to kill in the future if she was still alive.

Generally speaking, you can't hide among civilians unless the civilians are complicit on some level with it. Obviously you can't assign 100% moral blame to someone who hasn't pulled a trigger, but we have a well established civil system in the US that recognizes the significant contributions of someone in the home to a spouse who has a successful career, we should have the same standard for those who support our enemies.

the answer to your question is that in that culture the "innocents" are actually supporting isis whether they directly contribute to the movement or not. they openly welcome them into their home then sometimes suffer the consequences of becoming human shields.

[Berengil]

. Religious fundamentalist barbarians hide among non-combatants

. nation at war with said fundies bombs the f out of them

. the fundies and their " cover" die

#imshocked

@ the moderate or "peaceful" among the noncombatants: Either rise up and throw the ISIS/Al-Qaeda/ etc out from among you, or die with them. Your call.

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Classic liberal thinking 101: Dictators are fine and can oppress all they like, but don't you dare harm a flea in an effort to depose them.

I mean never mind that there is a giant civil war going on, with thousands and thousands of other deaths. But those two misplaced bombs, that is the work of the devil, I say.

I consider myself a liberal, mostly, and I don't disagree with you. On defense, I'm quite hawkish.

[Azadina]

I would like to see a much bigger effort on the part of the EU though. They are helping a bit but not as much as I think they should.

People always rag on the US for getting into other peoples business and frankly it seems like we have to because no one else is willing to step up. Then they harass the US for not protecting less well off nations.

It's perplexing.

Who do you think is taking in and paying for all the refugees, caused by your crusades? It sure as hell isn't your country, it's the EU. Why don't you fix what you messed up, instead of complaining that some who had no part in it, and are already paying for your mess, "aren't doing enough"?

[Reeve]

Classic liberal thinking 101: Dictators are fine and can oppress all they like, but don't you dare harm a flea in an effort to depose them.

I mean never mind that there is a giant civil war going on, with thousands and thousands of other deaths. But those two misplaced bombs, that is the work of the devil, I say.

Classic Liberal Thinking 101: Make your own goddamned judgments.

Many of the liberals in this very thread agree that "more than 100" civilian casualties is unfortunate, but acceptable for this kind of operation.

[Rend Blackhand]

Its a shite life. People die in war, many of whom have nothing to do with he actual combat. How about show some appreciation for the fact that these days we make genuine efforts to avoid civilian casualties?

Centuries ago, residential areas were legitimate targets. Worse still, looting and burning villages and the 'spils of war' were perfectly acceptable practices.

[Duravian]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/world/...an-casualties/

The body count of innocent civilians is piling up under the leadership and Nobel Peace Prize winner, President Obama. I thought we had better intel.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...taken-for-isi/

US air strike in Syria kills up to 85 civilians 'mistaken for Isil fighters

70 people killed by being mowed down by a truck under the command of "Allah." That was terrorist event number... 4? 5? in the past month. This is going to get a lot bloodier before it ends - if it ends.