PSA: Legion Prepatch Guides - Azortharion

[Deleted]

quick questions regarding trinket sims for your mm guide:
heirloom trinket is for demon bosses?
chipped soul prism is the 6.x-ish version with 715 as posted and not the 730 new one, which would make it even stronger...

[Deleted]

Is the class trinket for BM simmed correctly? The duration increase of BW from the trinket also applies to the player now. Maybe this wasn't updated in the sims?

[land]

Be brutal with the feedback, on anything for any reason. Also tell me shit that you want in the guides that is missing.

Hey Azor, I got a bit confused when reading this on the MM guide:

Section: 6.4.6. Tier 7 Talents
Text: "... If you are not using Patient Sniper Icon Patient Sniper (as we advise), this is just a nice bonus.... "

Am I reading this right and you are advising *not to* take patient sniper? This is contradictory with the rest of the guide where you suggest using Patient Sniper (i.e. "... Patient Sniper is the completely dominant talent in this tier, doing far more damage than the other choices on any number of targets... ")

Maybe just a typo? Or maybe I'm just dumb and misread it?

Thanks for the guides though, really helpful. Hope you keep up the good work throughout legion!

[serra2]

Be brutal with the feedback, on anything for any reason. Also tell me shit that you want in the guides that is missing.

Maybe a link to some trusted WeakAura strings for hunters? If you know any good ones.

[Kazezoku]

Good guides, but shame for using icy-veins~

[Cairol]

Situation: Vulnerable debuff is up with 6 sec remaining, full Focus available, Lock&Load up, nothing else on CD

Question: INstead of using 2-3 Aimed shots I still would use Barrage and loose the whole duration of Vulnerable? Barrage is 3rd on priority in the list but reading the rest of the guide I would have assumed that Vulnerable Aimed shot had a higher prio.

[Azortharion]

Barrage does not take 6 seconds to cast.

You Barrage, then you do 3 Aimed Shots (2 with LnL, 1 without).

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Class trinket seems to work fine.

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Maybe a link to some trusted WeakAura strings for hunters? If you know any good ones.

If you're incapable of creating WeakAuras yourself, just use the ClassMods addon for MM, there are really no fancy WeakAuras besides buff tracking which takes 5 seconds to make if you know how, and is really fucking simple

[Deleted]

I think the whole idea is to have something to regen during your free aimeds.

[Bepples]

(because it's inferior to MM in every way)

Is this really true? The most recent sims I saw on Trueshot have them very close, with BM slightly ahead. What I want to know is if a) MM is definitely ahead and b) it is so far ahead that BM is just not a viable option, just like in HFC.

It concerns me because I feel MM plays like utter dogshit and I want to avoid playing it at all costs.

[Nakauri]

Read the dates for sims.
The APL from Trueshot Lodge were in use during Azor's guide. They are now the default option available from the SimC client itself when you import your character (Battle.Net) or a template (Sample Profiles).
You can easily rerun all of them to the very utmost second to compare for yourself. Check the OP of each specs SimC sticky for a quick start guide to SimC.
There has never been any sim comparison posted there between the three specs for prepatch. The SimC sticky's are specifically for working on Legion 110 profiles.

[Dracodraco]

Is this really true? The most recent sims I saw on Trueshot have them very close, with BM slightly ahead. What I want to know is if a) MM is definitely ahead and b) it is so far ahead that BM is just not a viable option, just like in HFC.

It concerns me because I feel MM plays like utter dogshit and I want to avoid playing it at all costs.

Their damage done is fairly close, but MM delivers the damage in a much better fashion than BM, along with having superior passive cleave (BM has to actively work to cleave, MM doesn't). If you literally can't figure out how to switch targets or help your raid, BM will be fine, you won't notice a big difference. If you care at all about the raids success on priority burst, cleave etc you'll be MM.

[Azortharion]

Spec comparisons through simulations are a trap.

[durrtygoodz]

You seem awfully mad. Did I kill your family in a past life or something?

I don't have anything to add to the conversation re: simcraft but why is it that whenever a discussion takes place on this board the guy with the weaker argument always has to make out the other guy is mad? Honestly doubt Azor cares enough about you to get angry.

[Bepples]

Their damage done is fairly close, but MM delivers the damage in a much better fashion than BM, along with having superior passive cleave (BM has to actively work to cleave, MM doesn't). If you literally can't figure out how to switch targets or help your raid, BM will be fine, you won't notice a big difference. If you care at all about the raids success on priority burst, cleave etc you'll be MM.

I played a bit of MM with the recommended build. I found it very, very easy to execute the correct priority so no issues there. I just despised the way it played. I had huge downtime with no Hunter's Mark procs very frequently. I know, I know, Aimed Shot isn't meant to be instant, but at that point I'm replacing huge downtime with a lot of immobility which to me is even worse. I realise that it probably won't be a big issue, but I adored the unlimited mobility of BM and SV since early MoP. I suffered through HFC playing a spec I didn't like since, as you well know, it was simply not an option to play a spec other than Marksman. But I found that far more bearable than even a small amount of time with the new MM spec.

I was playing MM for about 2 hours and then I had to switch back to BM. It's stressful to even think about playing MM for another tier, especially in its current state. So if it's viable to play BM at all in T19 I will probably pick that instead. I'm in a Mythic raiding guild but we won't be pushing for top 100 or anything, so unless it will significantly hold back our progress I will stick to BM.

Hey, maybe I can deal with switching to MM for select fights where it is hugely superior...but artifact levelling is going to really prohibit that in the first tier of the expansion.

[Osinin]

Could just be the way I am reading it but I think the SV guide could be clearer on mongoose bite dumping windows and how that affects priority. Maybe requiring its own section?

It does suggest to dump all mongoose bite charges during Aspect of the Eagle but it doesn't say if this is the only time to or not. As an example, would you dump 3 charges of mongoose bite during a trinket proc if you could and know that you will generate all 3 charges again prior to Eagle coming off CD?

It also doesn't say what your priority becomes during a mongoose dumping window. While I assume during eagle with snake hunter talent you just want to press mongoose and nothing else since this only lasts 10 seconds and depending on haste and procs eagle could finish with mongoose charges left over but maybe explosive trap is always worth keeping on CD?

And is I guess this is probably answered in by the opening sequence section, but where do your dumping mongoose windows fit in the priority? I assume for each ring use after the first you want to use the opening sequence priority? And if so, (this kind of goes back to the previous question) if Explosive trap comes off CD during a mongoose dumping window does that take priority over a mongoose bite?

[Deleted]

I just wonder why 2 aimeds before marked at pull

[Zanez]

I just wonder why 2 aimeds before marked at pull

Probably to maximise vulnerable uptime, since sidewinders causes the debuff aswell as marked shot. Also marked shot doesnt have a CD so aslong as you dont waste the hunters mark buff it doesnt matter when its cast

[Deleted]

Probably to maximise vulnerable uptime, since sidewinders causes the debuff aswell as marked shot. Also marked shot doesnt have a CD so aslong as you dont waste the hunters mark buff it doesnt matter when its cast

Oh forgot about that fact havent touch MM since Alpha ...

[bumbumboris]

hallo, thx for the solid guides so far.
here some questions about the BM guide.

1) Since stampede and crows both benefit from BW, I wonder why you recommend use BW after stampede and crows in the opener.

2) What is the reason DB is listet before KC in the opener (while DB is after KC in the normal priority list? I could imagine because of the extra focus from "dire stable", but you recommend "way of the cobra", so it is probably another reason.)

3) Does DB also benefit from BW?

4) Why you do not list "aspekt of the wild" in the opener? just am misstake?

5) Maybe you could add an extra priority list just for the BW-buff (and aspekt of the wild) is up?
Sure, you say to max focus dump, but there is a free space for interpretation, like just KC and KS? with DB or without (see question 3), respektively with "dire stable"?

6) I am nut sure what "multiple target" in your guide means. is it 2+ or rather 3+ target? I guess it is 3+target, because CS missing there, which you recommend for 2-target in the ability section. I wonder if (and how) the priority would change for 2-target only.

7) Quote: "So if Bestial Wrath is just about to come off cooldown (under 2 seconds, for example), you should delay Dire Beast."
I got the idea. But is the amount of 2 seconds a limit? is this testet or is this just a "I feel about thing.."? Sorry for asking, but "for example"..?


enough for now, thx for answering!

[Deleted]

hallo, thx for the solid guides so far.
here some questions about the BM guide.

1) Since stampede and crows both benefit from BW, I wonder why you recommend use BW after stampede and crows in the opener.

3) Does DB also benefit from BW?

1) I dont think they benefit from it.
3) No it is a bonus from t19 4p