Harbingers: The Story of Gul’dan

[nonameelf]

Do you feel that way about AU Ner'zhul? AU Grommash? If not then you shouldn't have a problem with AU Gul'dan.

AU Ner'zhul was still the head shaman of the orcs and leader of the Shadowmoon clan. AU Grommash was still chieftain of the Warsong clan. They're still the same character, just an alternate version of that character.

AU Gul'dan is completely different from the start.

[dwarfkicker]

AU Ner'zhul was still the head shaman of the orcs and leader of the Shadowmoon clan. AU Grommash was still chieftain of the Warsong clan. They're still the same character, just an alternate version of that character.

AU Gul'dan is completely different from the start.

AU Ner'zhul didn't learn of the Legion. AU Ner'zhul didn't form the Horde. AU Grom never had a son, while during the MU Garrosh was born at this point.

Kairoz brought Garrosh to an AU Draenor that featured the old Warlords of his Draenor but they all came up in different circumstances. There were many key differences with many of them. That's what makes the alternate universe, alternate. Otherwise it'd just be going back in time for them and not going back in time in another, alternate universe.

Do you understand?

[nonameelf]

AU Ner'zhul didn't learn of the Legion. AU Ner'zhul didn't form the Horde.

Kairoz brought Garrosh to an AU Draenor that featured the old Warlords of his Draenor but they all came up in different circumstances. There were many key differences with many of them. That's what makes the alternate universe, alternate. Otherwise it'd just be going back in time for them and not going back in time in another, alternate universe.

Do you understand?

Yes, the characters did different things but they were still fundamentally the same characters. They had the same origins and roots in the world.

AU Gul'dan has completely different origins from MU Gul'dan.

[Deleted]

AU Ner'zhul was still the head shaman of the orcs and leader of the Shadowmoon clan. AU Grommash was still chieftain of the Warsong clan. They're still the same character, just an alternate version of that character.

AU Gul'dan is completely different from the start.

Yeah, some events went exactly like they did in the Main Universe while others didn't. I don't see a problem there. I don't find the concept hard to understand.

[nonameelf]

Yeah, some events went exactly like they did in the Main Universe while others didn't. I don't see a problem there. I don't find the concept hard to understand.

Because MU Gul'dan was a member of the Shadowmoon Clan.

AU Gul'dan is a member of some clan that he later wiped out.

He's a completely different character.

[Deleted]

Because MU Gul'dan was a member of the Shadowmoon Clan.

AU Gul'dan is a member of some clan that he later wiped out.

He's a completely different character.

Maybe something happened to his great-grandparents that caused this in the Alternate Universe. Who knows. There are almost endless possibilities.

[Mcbenchpress]

I'm fine with this retcon.

[nonameelf]

Maybe something happened to his great-grandparents that caused this in the Alternate Universe. Who knows. There are almost endless possibilities.

At what point does an AU character stop being an AU character though? How stretched does something have to be for them to no longer be an AU version of a character?

[Deleted]

At what point does an AU character stop being an AU character though? How stretched does something have to be for them to no longer be an AU version of a character?

Can't say for certain. Maybe as long as they have the same lineage they're the same character.

[dwarfkicker]

Because MU Gul'dan was a member of the Shadowmoon Clan.

AU Gul'dan is a member of some clan that he later wiped out.

He's a completely different character.

That's the point. It's what Blizzard wanted. Characters that were familiar to us, but with the freedom to be different. Which is exactly how it played out.

If Grom were still fundamentally the same he wouldn't have lashed out at Gul'dan the second time he offered him the blood. He would've accepted it. He didn't. This Grom had, as Gul'dan stated, a legendary iron will. MU Grom wanted power. He leapt at the chance to down some demon blood. Keep in mind that at this point during the MU, Ner'zhul was already working with the Legion, and it was "his" Horde that was in the process of being formed. Two things that had absolutely no place in the AU

Also with Ner'zhul in the AU he was depicted as weak, curtailing to every other warlord. Grom threatened him with death if he couldn't offer any kind of advantage to the Iron Horde. Quite the departure from the Horde leading Ner'zhul of the MU.

At what point does an AU character stop being an AU character though? How stretched does something have to be for them to no longer be an AU version of a character?

Never. An AU character will always be an AU character. This is evident as these warlords are all dead in the MU. Their histories are written and set in stone. The depiction of the AU characters are and forever will be beholden to the AU.

[nonameelf]

Can't say for certain. Maybe as long as they have the same lineage they're the same character.

That doesn't seem to be the case here though since they're from different clans.

That's the point. It's what Blizzard wanted. Characters that were familiar to us, but with the freedom to be different. Which is exactly how it played out.

If he's not Gul'dan then why call him Gul'dan?

[Deleted]

That doesn't seem to be the case here though since they're from different clans.

As I said before, maybe his great-grandparents somehow ended up to this nameless clan in the Alternate Universe or maybe the clan adopted him as a child. There are endless possibilities.

[bloodmoth13]

I just thought of something

If demons are the same across universes, then its the same kiljaedin that turns gul'dan Mu/Au, so for the main timeline, he went to ner'zhul first, then ner'zhul was usurped by the shadow council and gul'dan became the real threat, so potentially the right choice the second time around would be to go straight for Gul'dan, which actually makes sense that he ignored Ner'zhul

Only issue there then is whether that was kiljaedin in the past or if it was post warIII demons. If it was current time KJ that new what happened, then its obvious that he would make better choices this time around rather than fucking around with training ner'zhul who would betray him.

[Netherspark]

I think what some people are trying to say is that if the character is so different from our Gul'dan, what's even the point of him? We just as well could have any other character and it wouldn't make a difference.

[Daos]

At what point does an AU character stop being an AU character though? How stretched does something have to be for them to no longer be an AU version of a character?

They continue to be an AU character, no matter how different, as long as that is the author's intent, which it obviously is in the case of Gul'dan. That's the entire point of stories with alternate realities, to see how characters would act in completely different situations or with completely different origins.

Star Trek did this a lot in the various series, with their Alternate Universe. The characters had completely different origins and many of them acted completely different than they did normally, but they were still clearly the alternate versions because they were played by the same actors (and thus looked more or less the same) and had the same names.

[nonameelf]

I think what some people are trying to say is that if the character is so different from our Gul'dan, what's even the point of him? We just as well could have any other character and it wouldn't make a difference.

Exactly this.

[dwarfkicker]

As I said before, maybe his great-grandparents somehow ended up to this nameless clan in the Alternate Universe or maybe the clan adopted him as a child. There are endless possibilities.

They call him a cripple/deformed whatever. Perhaps he was born to the Shadowmoon clan, but his parents appalled by said deformities took the infant and abandoned it somewhere. Later an orc of the unknown clan finds the infant and brings it back. Would make sense as it seems Gul'dan has no family defending or even cursing him in the video.

[Aeula]

Much better backstory than his main universe counterpart. Nice to know that there's something more than 'corruption' fueling him.

[Netherspark]

Much better backstory than his main universe counterpart. Nice to know that there's something more than 'corruption' fueling him.

It was never corruption that fueled Gul'dan - it is and always has been power and power alone.

[Deleted]

I just thought of something

If demons are the same across universes, then its the same kiljaedin that turns gul'dan Mu/Au, so for the main timeline, he went to ner'zhul first, then ner'zhul was usurped by the shadow council and gul'dan became the real threat, so potentially the right choice the second time around would be to go straight for Gul'dan, which actually makes sense that he ignored Ner'zhul

Only issue there then is whether that was kiljaedin in the past or if it was post warIII demons. If it was current time KJ that new what happened, then its obvious that he would make better choices this time around rather than fucking around with training ner'zhul who would betray him.

Yes. KJ definitely knew what had happened to Ner'zhul and Gul'dan in our Azeroth when he chose to give Gul'dan the powers in the alternate universe Draenor since as we know there is only one KJ.