Patch 7.03, the end of master loot pugs?

[Deleted]

No more ninjas and stupid reserved item pugs? Nice

Yea, I might even start PuGing again now. I absolutely refused to join one where items were reserved before.

[Kazuchika]

Hahah oh man no shitters reserving half the loot in the instance?

Man pugging might actually be worth it again.

[shonist]

thanks god! best change ever. EVER.
gaming is full of childs in every game, they should never should have the choice to loot all for himself and run away.

[Deja Thoris]

All the "sheeple" complaining about this are the follower types who will never make their own groups but prefer to sit back and fist punch the air when changes like this happen.

Well, "sheeple", theres going to be a lot less people willing to drag your ass through raids. Enjoy the fruits of your, err, labour.

[Normie]

Like I said, I'd only be happy with this change if they also implemented cross realm guilds and cross realm trading.

Cross realm trading item trading has been a thing since Wrath.

Cross realm gold, no, and it won't be unless/until many other things happen. Otherwise instances will be full of "I'll give you this if you give me 3000g else I will just DE it in front of you."

Well, "sheeple", theres going to be a lot less people willing to drag your ass through raids. Enjoy the fruits of your, err, labour.

You've got that backwards. Raid leaders were using OP randoms to funnel gear to themselves.

[Deja Thoris]

You've got that backwards. Raid leaders were using OP randoms to funnel gear to themselves.

I haven't.

Blizz is enforcing a change because people can't look after themselves. The facility for people to protect themselves has existed for the entirety of WoD but people chose not to.

[Scrotch]

Raids were pugged all the time before the whole reserve trend spread like a cancer, and they'll continue being pugged now that said cancer has been removed - despite the bellyaching of the reservists.

Unfortunately steady raid groups that are across realms and friendlists were caught up in this, and hopefully blizzard will hear their issues and make some tweaks to bring master loot back to them without allowing it to pollute general pugs. Perhaps making it so using the group finder disables master loot until the raid is dissolved - allowing regular organized non-guild groups to use it, or allowing individual players to set themselves to personal loot despite what the raid leader has set it to.

[Normie]

I haven't.

Blizz is enforcing a change because people can't look after themselves. The facility for people to protect themselves has existed for the entirety of WoD but people chose not to.

Blizzard made the change because some members of the community can't manage not to abuse other members of the community.

But it's true, in the real world, if you get fired you should have got a union job. If you get hit by a drunk driver, what were you doing on the road? If you get shot, what were you doing in that part of town? If you get raped, you shouldn't have worn that v-neck. If someone calls you a [racial epithet], you should have stayed with your own kind. People need to look out for themselves, amirite?

[pmkaboo]

Unfortunately steady raid groups that are across realms and friendlists were caught up in this, and hopefully blizzard will hear their issues and make some tweaks to bring master loot back to them without allowing it to pollute general pugs. Perhaps making it so using the group finder disables master loot until the raid is dissolved - allowing regular organized non-guild groups to use it, or allowing individual players to set themselves to personal loot despite what the raid leader has set it to.

this sounds like the perfect solution. everyone will decide themselves if they want PL or ML, loot distribution will work as if everyone had PL selected but if someone with ML selected is supposed to get something, the master looter gets it instead.

[Spryte]

I personally cannot see anyway downsides to this change.

Nice one Blizz.

[Normie]

this sounds like the perfect solution. everyone will decide themselves if they want PL or ML, loot distribution will work as if everyone had PL selected but if someone with ML selected is supposed to get something, the master looter gets it instead.

The solution I've always advocated is that your loot method will always be Personal unless you opt in to whatever the group is using.

But when the ML figures out that you are using PL you'll be booted from the group for not making the loot available to the ML.

It's kind of funny, though, being in a pug where everyone is loot locked on the first 3 bosses and the ML starts to bitch about 1 item dropping per boss.

[Marrilaife]

Any cross-realm group, even regular ones, will now have to pay for server transfer to get a more reliable stream of loot.

With no cross realm mythic at the start of legion cross-realm groups will be confined to normal / hc anyway, and there funnelling loot is less crucial to progress so personal loot can do job as fine. Especially with trading duplicates rule. Well unless it's one of those "semi-casual" guilds where gm and officers need to have their lion's share in loot.

Before I joined a guild I raided in some casual open raid event group during BRF that was basically a semi guild run with pugs from open raid and we used personal loot and sky didn't fall.

It avoids loot drama, accusations of favouritism, problems with "Bob rolled highest but it was after raid leader finished countdown", problems with "ms > os" and people like "oh I can switch to heal but my ms is dps" then roll on both spec trinkets, people afking during loot rolls then whining they wanted x item, people rolling for their friend (well now they can trade them their personal drops), raid leaders saying "some rogue loot reserved" but not which ones, people asking if tiers are reserved, leader claiming it isn't then taking it anyway, and generally big pile of mess.

People who mainly raid normals or hcs often don't need to and sometimes don't even care to optimize their performance. I was raiding with casual people and it's usually "I play what I wanna how I wanna" attitude, raided until 12 hc HFC in a guild with survival hunter, fire mage and gladiator warrior when they were crap specs, and to be honest this is not that much of a deal when you raid casually in a "chill group", this attitude doesn't pass in mythic but in normal or even heroic is still fine, however don't lie to me loot for this people is a tool for progress. Nope. It's a shiny reward. These people raid to meet with friends and have fun, not to progress at any cost. Loot assigned by rng gods is not a tragedy to them, it barely changes anything. Also less issues when you for example raid with 15, only 2 loots drop and then it's "omgwtfbbq who the f was saved so we didn't get 3 loots".

[Normie]

People who mainly raid normals or hcs often don't need to and sometimes don't even care to optimize their performance. I was raiding with casual people and it's usually "I play what I wanna how I wanna" attitude, raided until 12 hc HFC in a guild with survival hunter, fire mage and gladiator warrior when they were crap specs, and to be honest this is not that much of a deal when you raid casually in a "chill group", this attitude doesn't pass in mythic but in normal or even heroic is still fine, however don't lie to me loot for this people is a tool for progress. Nope. It's a shiny reward. These people raid to meet with friends and have fun, not to progress at any cost. Loot assigned by rng gods is not a tragedy to them, it barely changes anything. Also less issues when you for example raid with 15, only 2 loots drop and then it's "omgwtfbbq who the f was saved so we didn't get 3 loots".

(emphasis added)

Well, I used to do that anyway. Now it's pretty much impossible to find a group to do that with, at least on my server during the hours that I tend to play.

[Niwes]

that change is years too late. i am that sick of all the fukin ninja behaviour in pugs and all that "we are not responsible for, just dont join ML pugs" shit by blizzard. this change is more than welcome and helps that this community stops sucking that hard since years.

dont get me wrong. i had no problem with ML in the old days pugs. when there was a server identity. and ppl that ninjad a lot get naturally sorted out. but with that shitty new pug tool, no pug-hopper prevention like a desserteur debuff, and XR, it became a nightmare especially in WoD.

in short: that new pug tool without a change like that ? no, thx.

[Driveskull]

Great change

[Halicia]

that change is years too late. i am that sick of all the fukin ninja behaviour in pugs and all that "we are not responsible for, just dont join ML pugs" shit by blizzard. this change is more than welcome and helps that this community stops sucking that hard since years.

i dunno, its been all of... a day or two of me raiding with the new "Personal Loot" pugs... and I'm not sure its an improvement.

I havent had issues with ninjas in.... years....

but with this new system, as soon as loot drops, raidchat is flooded with "Hey you guys, can i get all that gears!?! I just started and you really seem to be doing good so I should get it, right ?"

basically turning personal loot into an auto-distributed masterloot, and distributing the grief onto anyone that wins loot and is too selfish to give it away to others.

if i lead any pugs in the next expac, i can certainly see myself including a "no begging, just offering" rule about loot in the description resulting in a swift and immediate raidkick.

[Dilbon]

Selfish are those who think they are entitled to other people's loot.

[Ebalina]

This will hopefully put a stop to most of these "XY reserved" groups.

Those were never a problem.
You joining them is creating a problem for you and only you.
You don't like grps with loot reserved you don't join them it gives you no right to complain.

Especially when most people that do complain are actually getting their asses carried trough raids 95% of the time.

[Cheze]

I see what they're trying to do with this change, but tbh I think that the personal loot+trading system might make pub groups even more obnoxious. There's gonna be a crazy amount of begging, if not RLs demanding folks trade things or be kicked.

On a personal note, my guild supports several raid groups and is large enough to actually need an alt guild, and it's gonna suck when/if one of our raids pulls in 4-5 alts and suddenly can't ML anymore.

[Wries]

PL was a great addition to this game and I have no issue with it becoming the true standard.

- It drops more loot to offset the fact that you might not be able to "target" one specific item.
- No issue bringing a bunch of classes that all want the same type of gear.
- It practically guarantees no drama at all

Other mmo's have had this. It's been great. It's just the old dogs who can't learn to deal with it. During 6.2 it was THE best loot method for a group gearing up, but wasn't enough to persuade some, and it of course wasn't a good match for ninja group leaders. I'm glad Blizzard continues pushing it. I want it to eventually stick. It's essentially the key to end all loot drama in WoW.

I see what they're trying to do with this change, but tbh I think that the personal loot+trading system might make pub groups even more obnoxious. There's gonna be a crazy amount of begging, if not RLs demanding folks trade things or be kicked.

I too saw it as an issue. But thing is, you can *technically* only trade it away if it's worse than yours. I know ilvl isn't a good measure and I can see it being potentially an issue with say trinkets. But we'll have to wait and see.