Were Humans Better off Without Society?

[Stonecloak]

nah, it's better today, because you can have all the benefits of modern society, and still can hunt, fish, do things that small native tribes did. You'll be just missing out on poor living conditions, lower life expectancy.

[Sunseeker]

There is no logical argument that supposes that humans were better off without society.

[Calfredd]

There is no logical argument that supposes that humans were better off without society.

Tell the OP that and he'll immediately hand wave it away with some nonsense argument like a lot of his threads.

[Adam Jensen]

I like my internet too much tyvm.

[Deleted]

Tell the OP that and he'll immediately hand wave it away with some nonsense argument like a lot of his threads.

Because he convinces himself that all of his problems are caused by society and that he is absolutely correct, so posts threads about it fishing for validation whilst ignoring the counter arguments.

It's an unhealthy attitude of someone possibly suffering from depression. Scapegoating is the worst thing he could do, and that's all he is doing.

[Calfredd]

Because he convinces himself that all of his problems are caused by society and that he is absolutely correct, so posts threads about it fishing for validation whilst ignoring the counter arguments.

It's an unhealthy attitude of someone possibly suffering from depression. Scapegoating is the worst thing he could do, and that's all he is doing.

I think there's something similar with derpkitteh with all the weird/crazy things she posts. Going to not say anymore in-case I'm crossing the line.

[Twoddle]

Seriously WTF!?! I didn't sign up for this!

Your parents signed you up for it whether you like it or not.

Don't worry though, it will all crash one day and things will be terrible.

[Florena]

Hahaha no. Modern society isn't perfect but I would never want to give up society and all the benefits it brings. Including clean clothing, air conditioning, readily available safe food, art and entertainment etc. I wouldn't ever want to be a hunter gatherer. Yes the world isn't perfect now but people shouldn't overly glorify the good old days of struggling to survive each day.

[blackblade]

Even just reading this forum it seems like so much hell stems from the creation of society. Sure hunter gatherers had to worry about starving or getting eaten, but that's all they had to worry about. Now there are insane barriers to even begin living your life.

First you have to go finish k-through 12 and get really good grades in order to get into a good college. Then you have to major in something in STEM fields in college because almost everything else will leave you bankrupt plus the STEM fields are harder and more time consuming. Then you have to get really good grades in your undergrad in order to get into a good grad school program. Not to mention you are taking on seriously crippling amounts of debt this whole time.

After you finish grad school you go look for a job only to find out that every job opening wants experience, but you don't have any so somehow you are going to have to get experience before you get experience!?!? After you finally land a job willing to let a fresh grad in, they pay you shit for a couple of years until you get enough experience to gain a better job.

This whole process has ate up an ass load of time in your life. By now you are in your late 20's or early 30's and have nothing to show but a ton load of debt and practically jack shit for life experiences. At least back in our hunter gatherer days our ancestors didn't have to go through so much bullshit and tirelessly prove to society that we are worthy of a position in its ranks. Then after you finish all this you get grinded on day in and day out working very long hours in order to make someone else richer.

The benefit of society is massively increased technology, but a lot of this has had a negative effect also. Technology has made the physical things in life so easy that many people suffer from a plethora of diseases and live shit lives. Technology has flooded our air with pollutants and affected the entire climate of the earth for the worse. GMO cancer causing food, far more mental diseases living in society, pills with worse side effects than the actual disease, society even has much higher crime rates than tribal communities and creates far more inequality.

Seriously WTF!?! I didn't sign up for this!

define better off?

We live significantly longer lives on average. We enjoy a great deal of amenities like an abundant supply of food and clean water that we'd otherwise not have.

Yes, there's a price to pay for these things, but really, it depends on what specifically you're looking for in terms of "Better off"

[Theodarzna]

What's 'Globalist' mean to you, out of curiosity? To me it means all peoples of the world putting aside their hatreds and petty differences and working together for the good of humanity and the planet, maybe even working to push us out into the solar system (possibly starting terraforming on Mars and Venus) and eventually the stars. To me, at least, it doesn't mean 'crush all cultures and individualism and take away freedom of choice from people'.

Well, there is a point to be made that if you are not pleased with this society all arable and practicably livable land is taken by others. There are few places to go, unlike the past were you could take to the mountains.

As for the greater good, well, it depends on who you ask. The legion of corpses that greater good is built on might have a different opinion on the matter.

[glistermans]

humans were better off without alot of things. you know?

[The Stormbringer]

Well, there is a point to be made that if you are not pleased with this society all arable and practicably livable land is taken by others. There are few places to go, unlike the past were you could take to the mountains.

As for the greater good, well, it depends on who you ask. The legion of corpses that greater good is built on might have a different opinion on the matter.

To me, the greater good being the continued survival and expansion of the human race, its achievements, and the best preservation and protection of the planet and its ecosystem/biodiversity as can be given.

And you're right, it does suck that you can't just... go somewhere and build yourself a home and a farm and live without getting it from someone else.

[belfpala]

Didn't read through the entire thread, sorry.

Humans are social creatures. That is all. If you don't believe me, go take a long walk around wherever you live and see.

[Forogil]

define better off?

We live significantly longer lives on average. We enjoy a great deal of amenities like an abundant supply of food and clean water that we'd otherwise not have.

You are missing the most dramatic change: our increased numbers. Hunter-gather societies cannot sustain billions.

Thus for most the choice isn't between life in current or primitive society, but the simple: current life - or no life.

The benefit of society is massively increased technology, but a lot of this has had a negative effect also. Technology has made the physical things in life so easy that many people suffer from a plethora of diseases and live shit lives. Technology has flooded our air with pollutants and affected the entire climate of the earth for the worse. GMO cancer causing food, far more mental diseases living in society, pills with worse side effects than the actual disease, society even has much higher crime rates than tribal communities and creates far more inequality.

Hunter-gatherer societies also have a number of diseases, and primitive societies flood the air with pollutants (by burning down forests) as well.
Their medicine is primitive - and regularly almost as bad as the disease (or worse; there's a reason we don't use "folk-remedies" anymore) - whereas most pills have benign side effects in modern society.

I doubt that the crime rates are higher now. However, it's difficult to separate crime from war in a hunter-gatherer society - and about 20% of the fatalities in such primitive societies are due to violent acts by other men: war and murder. That's a ridiculously high number compared to modern society.

[Very Tired]

You know, nothing's stopping you from going out into the wild and hunting for your food now.

[belfpala]

You know, nothing's stopping you from going out into the wild and hunting for your food now.

/steps out front door with shotgun
/aims at squirrels and rabbits
/gets shot by police because I'm in an urban area

Doh.

[BannedForViews]

The question is too complex too answer. Mostly because of us perceiving it and answering it from our point of view.

Humans are not animals. We need tools and technology in the sense that we can. We could live without them, but they are part of what we are. Advanced.

The question at hand cannot be truthfully answered. Only opinions can be given that vary from one extreme to the other with everything inbetween. And all opinions would either be factually correct or wrong.

Humans are indeed animals.

[Powerogue]

They are pretty important things to not have to worry about, I would not swap.

He also left out slow, agonizing death by any multitude of diseases or parasites that we currently live safely away from in our homes air-conditioned to prevent summer heat stroke.

And you know, the internet. Really that alone is a dealbreaker for me. You expect me to just live out in the wild without things like this?

[rol3x]

No not even a little, human lives were far more horrific even 200 years ago. the doubling of human life expectancy is enough to make the answer obvious, thats ignoring the vast quality of life improvements made over the millennia.
The increase in certain diseases is a drop in the pond compared to the swath of illnesses that are made trivial by modern medicine, infection alone killed huge numbers of people as early as 150 years ago, Im a little staggered anyone thinks human life is worse now.

[Reeve]

Sure hunter gatherers had to worry about starving or getting eaten, but that's all they had to worry about.

Kind of important things. Though my first job at my current company, I also had to worry about getting eaten, so there's that.

First you have to go finish k-through 12 and get really good grades in order to get into a good college. Then you have to major in something in STEM fields in college because almost everything else will leave you bankrupt plus the STEM fields are harder and more time consuming. Then you have to get really good grades in your undergrad in order to get into a good grad school program. Not to mention you are taking on seriously crippling amounts of debt this whole time.

After you finish grad school you go look for a job only to find out that every job opening wants experience, but you don't have any so somehow you are going to have to get experience before you get experience!?!? After you finally land a job willing to let a fresh grad in, they pay you shit for a couple of years until you get enough experience to gain a better job.

This whole process has ate up an ass load of time in your life. By now you are in your late 20's or early 30's and have nothing to show but a ton load of debt and practically jack shit for life experiences. At least back in our hunter gatherer days our ancestors didn't have to go through so much bullshit and tirelessly prove to society that we are worthy of a position in its ranks. Then after you finish all this you get grinded on day in and day out working very long hours in order to make someone else richer.

Hmmm. I turn 33 on Wednesday. I have a good career with coworkers who respect me, good pay, a boss that loves me, and I'm on track to be an executive before I close out my 30s. This is all in spite of the fact that when I was 24, I had all the same fears and complaints you mentioned above.

GMO cancer causing food

*cough* Bullshit! *cough*