I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[purebalance]

yes because a destro lock would tottalty use curse of agony, and drain soul, well a affliction would use incenerate and immolate.... also yes in pvp you used enslave demon, ritual of doom, summon infernal, all of the many useless curses and spells...

Affliction used immolate in 3.0 so yeah just stop talking.

[tankbug]

Having 3 dots I need to apply to each target, that are basically identical in function, is not creative or interesting, and just takes up keyboard binds.

[Deleted]

Why is it a problem if some players don't use every single spell in the spellbook?

This game contains countless different playstyles and types of content. Why should every spell be useful to every player?

Because in that list of unused abilities were enough important ones for dungeons, raids and PvP.

[Boathouse]

Why do you assume he's talking about playing mage in a raid setting..?

Because if he were talking about pvp he'd have talked about scorch instead of fireball. On top of that, he wouldn't be talking about fire. Or a rotation. Or his top damaging spell.

[shoegazing]

Because in that list of unused abilities were enough important ones for dungeons, raids and PvP.

...What?

How is that even a response to what I wrote?

I asked you, "Why is it a problem if someone players don't use every single spell in the spellbook?" and "why should every spell be useful to every player?"

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Because if he were talking about pvp he'd have talked about scorch instead of fireball. On top of that, he wouldn't be talking about fire. Or a rotation. Or his top damaging spell.

Literally every single claim you just made is incorrect.

1. fireball is currently used in PvP
2. fire is currently the strongest mage spec in PvP
3. rotations do matter in PvP, they are simply less strict because of the constraints imposed by the chaotic environment
4. that doesn't mean you aren't trying to maximize your (effective) damage in PvP

PvPers don't want "nothing but the damage rotation" class design, but that doesn't mean that damage doesn't matter in PvP.

[Boxilot]

You also made more decisions regarding your character when this game came out than since Cataclysm wiped away the talent trees.

How you build your character is not a feature of a MMORPG, it is the feature. Everything else is secondary even the gameplay itself is secondary to building your character, its the kind of stuff you think about when you are at work or school and couldnt wait to go home to play WoW or Diablo 2. We have all done it.


That is all but gone, our characters arent as much our own. You get to chose how your charge works at lvl 15 for Warriors, then you chose how you want to stun people, then how you want to regen health.


Most of the early "talents" are just as uninspired as the worst talents in Classic. I was way more excited to spend 5 talent points into Corruption to make it instant, then any early talents in the current game.

We are one more Legion 2.0 expansion from having as many active abilities as MOBA characters. If you went back in time during WotLK and made a topic and posted pictures "from the future" people would laugh you out of the building.

I agree that a good mmorpg should focus on the building of the character. The skills and the flavour of their class has always been a huge deal when it comes to the older types of RPGs. But blizz chose to move WoW away from that a long time ago, as they decided that their playerbase just didn't have the attentionspan to deal with talentrees or choose abilities, or better yet, decide whether their skills were worth leveling up. When you sat wondering whether you should go two-handed or not because you'd have to start leveling up that early.

Regardless of that I must admit I've had more fun playing now that I've had since early cataclysm. The pruning they did in WoD was horrible; they just took away abilities and left us with gutted classes. At least now there is some sort of dynamic going on, and the combat is more fast-paced. Which I imagine was the idea, since we're now playing WoWDiablo3.

[Boathouse]

...What?

How is that even a response to what I wrote?

I asked you, "Why is it a problem if someone players don't use every single spell in the spellbook?" and "why should every spell be useful to every player?"

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Literally every single claim you just made is incorrect.

1. fireball is currently used in PvP
2. fire is currently the strongest mage spec in PvP
3. rotations do matter in PvP, they are simply less strict because of the constraints imposed by the chaotic environment
4. that doesn't mean you aren't trying to maximize your (effective) damage in PvP

>Currently
It's prepatch brother, if you're pvping as anything other than melee right now you're wrong and you know it. Keep trying though, you're still wrong.

You'd use Dragons Breath, Scorch, Fireball, Pyroblast, Flame On, Mirror Image, Shimmer(or Cold Snap), Ice Block, Flame Blast, etc. The prune wasn't that big of a deal, some classes and specs even gained abilities.

[callipygoustp]

Didn't you guys read the patch notes?



I mean come on, I kinda get that we can't have a game like M&M VI in 2016 but can't we keep just some vestiges and aspects of a traditional, run-of-the-mill RPG in WoW?

"Too many abilities, it confuses people!" Yeah I'm sure that's a huge concern. Why don't we just make it so that everybody has 10hp 10 mana 3dmg ability 2heal ability and call it a game? Oh wait, that's Dwarf Fortress, we can't have that!

I'm not saying the whole un-RPification is beacuse of a giant fuck you from Blizzard to the masses - hell, I honestly don't know why they are doing it, but anything in the name of pandering to the masses I guess.

Yeah, I don't get the ongoing decision path of making the game less complicated. The less complex the game became over time, the less interesting it became, and as a result the less I enjoyed it.

[Eazy]

30% were passives, 25% abilities you were not using.

So I think that's nice. :-)

[Deleted]

...What?

How is that even a response to what I wrote?

I asked you, "Why is it a problem if someone players don't use every single spell in the spellbook?" and "why should every spell be useful to every player?"

I met enough people in that kind of content who dind´t know some important abilities they had in their spellbooks. I think that if you want to raid heroic/mythic or do challenge modes or arenas for rating you should atleast know some of them. If you are just questing or doing lfr, sure.... You can just ignore interrupts, defensives and everything else...

But that´s just my opinion~

[shoegazing]

>Currently
It's prepatch brother, if you're pvping as anything other than melee right now you're wrong and you know it. Keep trying though, you're still wrong.

You'd use Dragons Breath, Scorch, Fireball, Pyroblast, Flame On, Mirror Image, Shimmer(or Cold Snap), Ice Block, Flame Blast, etc. The prune wasn't that big of a deal, some classes and specs even gained abilities.

Fire is very strong on the beta as well. Jahmilli and most of the other top mages say it is the strongest mage spec because a relatively high portion of the damage is instant and difficult to prevent outside of purging procs.

BTW I've played melee exclusively for 12 years (finished in the top 2% of the rated tryhard ladder last season on 3 different characters so please tell me more about how wrong I am oh great expert) and I am currently playing only casters in the prepatch and winning the majority of my matches.

I've never even played a warlock before 24 hours ago (I boosted one in WoD but didn't play it) and I'm destroying people.

- - - Updated - - -

I met enough people in that kind of content who dind´t know some important abilities they had in their spellbooks. I think that if you want to raid heroic/mythic or do challenge modes or arenas for rating you should atleast know some of them. If you are just questing or doing lfr, sure.... You can just ignore interrupts, defensives and everything else...

But that´s just my opinion~

So you want everyone to be instant experts at their class without having any room to grow as a player?

Why is it a problem if someone on your raid group or arena team isn't doing everything 100% correct right off the bat?

I was queuing arenas on my druid for the first time in WoD and my friend asked me to remove his Hex but I didn't have Remove Corruption on my bars yet as I had just set them up for that character. We laughed about it ("oh god I'm such a n00b!") and I put it on my bars after the match was over and everything was fine.

Where is the problem?

[Sencha]

Because WoW is catering to casual players who can't handle more than 6 buttons, but they won't admit it and say that most spells were useless...

Facebook players generation is destroying the game.

[tankbug]

So the buttons that were pruned were pruned because they were 'dead skills'?

Rogues lost a lot of buttons. Which one of them was a 'dead skill'?

I haven't played a rogue in a while, can you tell me what skills, that aren't covered by new skills or talents that you miss?

[shoegazing]

I haven't played a rogue in a while, can you tell me what skills, that aren't covered by new skills or talents that you miss?

For Subtlety:

THINGS I MISS:

Shadow Walk
Tricks of the Trade (it wasn't pruned but the PvP functionality was removed so for PvPers it was)
Preparation
Crippling Poison & Wound Poison
Gouge
Shiv
Garrote
Premeditation (there is a talent called Premeditation but it's a completely reworked ability which is passive)

I have mixed feelings about Burst of Speed. It was too powerful in certain content but that could have been addressed by simultaneously increasing the duration, energy cost, and cooldown. That way it wouldn't be a cancerous spammable snare breaker in PvP but it would still be useful for farming old raids and other types of content.

That's not even to mention all of the cases where talents were moved to the same tier (Marked for Death and Death From Above) so that you are forced to give up one of them, or abilities which were moved to a talent (Smokebomb) which competes with a far more powerful passive talent.

Enveloping Shadows (in some sense a replacement for Slice and Dice) also competes with a passive talent that, at least in PvP, is just outright superior in every way.

My action bars on my Subtlety rogue are a barren wasteland these days. So barren in fact that Blizzard had to disable Shadow Dance's stance paging and macro conditional.

[Deleted]

So you want everyone to be instant experts at their class without having any room to grow as a player?

Why is it a problem if someone on your raid group or arena team isn't doing everything 100% correct right off the bat?

I was queuing arenas on my druid for the first time in WoD and my friend asked me to remove his Hex but I didn't have Remove Corruption on my bars yet as I had just set them up for that character. We laughed about it ("oh god I'm such a n00b!") and I put it on my bars after the match was over and everything was fine.

Where is the problem?

I don´t want everyone to be experts the minute they start any content... I mean people who are doing the content for quite some time already and have played the class for a loong time aswell. And for new players it should be easier to scroll through 2 pages of a spellbook, and not 6.

[Fenixhart]

Some specs were pretty bloaty.

Enhancement shaman had to use 3 buttons to use an AoE. In what universe was that considered okay.

Frankly specs were in need of streamlining. If the feel of the spec can be done in 5 rotational buttons with a few Cooldowns why make it take more?

I'm all for having cleaner bars and not needing to have a bar addon just to hold all the spells I might use.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Man, I am glad I used Water Walking and Path of Frost in PvP. Same with Water Breathing, oh and Far Sight.

Hell yeah water breathing. Go to that pool in the hills of AB and toss it on and sink to the bottom. Then just talk trash about everyone not doing their part and being bots as I pointless stay safe from enemies. Where that real pvp be at!

J/King of course.. or am I?

[threads]

worst argument of legion - "you get more abilities from pvp talents"

fuck that. what if I want to use them in pve?

[shoegazing]

I don´t want everyone to be experts the minute they start any content... I mean people who are doing the content for quite some time already and have played the class for a loong time aswell. And for new players it should be easier to scroll through 2 pages of a spellbook, and not 6.

Level one characters have 6 page spellbooks to scroll through..?

Also just because someone has played a class for a long time doesn't mean they can't have a casual attitude. Why is it a problem if someone isn't playing their class to its fullest potential?

[Pickynerd]

My lock at 70 had more spells than I had places for keybinds. It was getting silly the pruning needed to happen.

This.

Rank 1 heal, Rank 2 heal.. so immersive.