Should Masterloot be brought back for pugs?

[Deleted]

tbh, i would care if they made pl game wide why are know ninjas allowed to even make their own grps? also its not my fault that it was ingraned into peoples head that ML=ml then pl now is it?

also you should note that i didn't ask for this change either but i still think its better.

If they are known, why would you join the group?
Master Loot worked for over a decade in this game, nobody wanted it gone. Now it's gone and people are mad, deal with it.

How is it better? Name one thing, that is better then before. Because you already could do PL groups no problem. So you gained nothing, but lost an option.

[Jewsco]

If they are known, why would you join the group?
Master Loot worked for over a decade in this game, nobody wanted it gone. Now it's gone and people are mad, deal with it.

How is it better? Name one thing, that is better then before. Because you already could do PL groups no problem. So you gained nothing, but lost an option.

If no one wanted it gone why have 70% if the people here voting for it to not to come back?
Is that nobody?
You didn't want it gone and that is all you speak for.

P.s.
It worked for more than a decade because most of the decade me couldn't raid cross server and thier rep on their server was everything. If someone ninjaed stuff they got a bad rap and were black balled or did you not okay and miss that. That isn't the case anymore and why it has gotten out of control

[Deleted]

If no one wanted it gone why have 70% if the people here voting for it to not to come back?
Is that nobody?
You didn't want it gone and that is all you speak for

maybe these forums aren't a great cut of community. And most people will shift their opinion, when the amount of pugs goes down, as soon as the raids get into farm status, because if you need only specific loot, ML is the only sensible option and with only guild being able to ML, there will be no pugs just for farming the specific items.

And 566 votes... that's less then most servers have in population. So that poll shows nothing.

[thunderdragon2]

see even if there were 250 threads about it, how many raids are there every fucking night?

So 250 ninjalooters in a sea of 10000 raids, that's 0.025% of all raids have a ninjalooting problem. Even at 1%, thats a laughable excuse for removing it at best.

I would see the point if it were 40%+ of all raids, but then NOBODY WOULD FUCKING RUN PUGS WITH ML in the first place!

you still haven't seen the problem with the bolded and i had it in my last problem people had it ingrained into their heads ad the time that you received less loot form PL than ml this is just 1 of the reasons people used ml the inability to trade useless items and getting duplicates have been fixed

also to add to my problem with the last statement people will take the route which attracts more people so even if 40% of raids using ml were lead by ninjas people will still flock to them because they fill up the fastest because of the misinformation being spread about PL

seems we at a crossroads here as we wont agree.

[Deleted]

you still haven't seen the problem with the bolded and i had it in my last problem people had it ingrained into their heads ad the time that you received less loot form PL than ml this is just 1 of the reasons people used ml the inability to trade useless items and getting duplicates have been fixed

also to add to my problem with the last statement people will take the route which attracts more people so even if 40% of raids using ml were lead by ninjas people will still flock to them because they fill up the fastest because of the misinformation being spread about PL

seems we at a crossroads here as we wont agree.

PL gives you less loot, you get 1 item per boss. ML can get you ALL items a boss drops, even with fair loot rules.
People like ML, because if 2 items for them drop, they can get both. With PL, they get one item and have to stick with that one.

[thunderdragon2]

PL gives you less loot, you get 1 item per boss. ML can get you ALL items a boss drops, even with fair loot rules.
People like ML, because if 2 items for them drop, they can get both. With PL, they get one item and have to stick with that one.

not anymore or did you fail to read the patch notes, you may still only get 1 item ,2 if your lucky but u aren't stuck with that item unless your group is unlucky with drops.


my guess is you want ML for pugs for personal reasons, if i'm wrong i apologise but ML is a broken system when you add cross realm raiding into the mix

[ridinghorse]

Thats so bullshit top three 3 guilds on a server ninja looted and nobody give a fuck, their a tons of youtube videos of it

stop claiming nonsense, obviously you played not the game back then, at least not a sufficient level

how many people are on the avarage server back then? people always go doing google search for that one forum post that some claimed to be ninja? yeah ok

Don't see why you couldn't just create your own group and run with it if ninja looting was such a big problem.

[thunderdragon2]

I suppose the majority here never raidlead or is bad at it

i have raidlead i'm somewhat decent but i highly doubt any pug raidleader has managed to keep the core all of their group together after 1-3 wipes on a boss other than gorefeind mythic

[Marrilaife]

And 566 votes... that's less then most servers have in population. So that poll shows nothing.

Apparently a handful people arguing over the course of several pages means more than 500 people voting...

I'm surprised MMO champ community voted this way because it's yet another thread where people shout loudly sky is falling, it's the end of pugging and ML was best because they could reserve their precious item but it was offset by the fact they were such amazing raid leaders and without them pugs will trip over their shoelaces.

Well, I guess we'll see.

But I already see how a vocal minority inside an already vocal minority community looks like.

because if you need only specific loot, ML is the only sensible option

Only for the raid leader. For everyone else it means they have little chance for meaningful loot (tiers, trinkets, weapons) and are just free to roll on the rest of the garbage blizzard fills the loot table with. For the raid leader yes, it's eldorado, because instead of 1 chance per loot in PL (+coin) they now have up to 6 chances for that item to drop (depending on raid size).

[ridinghorse]

I suppose the majority here never raidlead or is bad at it

I raid lead with master loot when I pug. I would like to think my runs went well considering I don't get complaints.

[Aucald]

I think groups assembled from the group finder/LFG/LFR tool should default to Personal Loot, and if the raid leader opts to change it to Master Loot then it prompts a voting option the same as kicking someone from the group so that a majority have to agree to the change beforehand. That would free up the option to create such groups, but also stop the worst of the abuses.

[runique]

I'm quite surprised so many people are fine with limiting the options of players. There were plenty of PL groups before the patch too. Also, who cares about reserves? Yeah it might be annoying, but you know what else is annoying? Putting together your own fucking group.

[Cheze]

I've been in lots of situations where ML for a 'pug' was a good outcome; partial guild groups, alt/F&F runs that included people from multiple guilds, openraid, GDKP, etc.

Right now I raid in a guild that's legitimately large enough to need an alt guild, and while I can't imagine it'll be frequent it's gonna be real annoying when/if enough people bring alts on a particular night not to be able to ML anymore. I'm glad they're attempting to structurally solve the problem of ninja looting, but I feel like some sort of more elegant solution should've been possible (maybe let the raid vote for which loot system to use?)

ed: like, maybe groups that use the raidfinder shouldn't be allowed to use ML, but 'regular' manually formed groups should be?

really the problem is that they're still chained to a severely outdated implementation of what a 'guild' is

[Aeriedk]

I think it should be brought back. The problems with it were minimal, but for there were a lot of upsides to it like GDKPs and reserving items in Pugs. Yea yea I know reserving is stupid, so then form the group yourself you bum. I reserved tons of stuff back in my pugging days in Wotlk...besides leading the raid, I spent all of the time creating it, being sure to have the right composition, make sure you have a bloodlust, 2 shadow priest that are hit capped for Naxx 25. I deserved something for my work and by reserving that something I made sure I got it if it dropped.

Now maybe today there isn't as much work involved, but if someone wants compensation for creating and leading a raid they are more than welcome to reserve it. Players have a choice to join that group, no one is forcing them.

[Scrotch]

Yea yea I know reserving is stupid, so then form the group yourself you bum. I reserved tons of stuff back in my pugging days

To all the reservists and ninja looters crying about the death of all pugging using the same tired argument of "don't like master loot? Just make your own group.":

If you don't like personal loot, just make your own (guild) group!

[therealbowser]

Define pugs.

Do you mean automatically formed parties? Then, hell no. This is just absolutely ripe for abuse and I see no reason anyone would use it for anything else. Personal loot does its job perfectly.

Do you mean manually formed parties? It's still there. Personally, when I see a group like this using master loot, it's a sign to get the hell out of dodge.

What's the issue?

- - - Updated - - -

well you trade ninjalooting for people selling loot they dont need.

pick your poison there is always something that can be abused.

The fact people give away/trade at all is really something. You didn't earn it, so be glad for the opportunity. Ninjalooting is taking loot that would have/should have been yours, or at least you should have had a fair chance for it and did not. I consider that infinitely worse than being 'greedy' with loot they earned and you didn't.

I give away all the bonus loot I get that I don't need (unless it's a new appearance or something). I never have issues finding a player who needs it -- I usually check manually, instead of just offering it in chat, and trading it to someone who could use it as an upgrade. I'd rather feel good about helping someone out than getting some pocket change.

Edit: There seems to be a new change, if I am not mistaken, that forces personal loot unless you have a big enough guild group. If this is the case, I'm fine with players being able to activate master loot in their own parties. If someone finds an issue with it, they can leave, and should leave. I know I would. But it's your right.

[Grimnakh]

No. ML in pugs is mainly used by greedy jerks, and makes people not want to play the game. If you werent one of those jerks sorry, though most people who think how they used ML in pugs was justified are just deluded jerks.

[Desma]

Absolutely yes. People should be just more aware of really asking for the loot rules etc. I have not been ninja'd once in 11 years of playing the game. Loot with Master Loot can be given out with reason and the ability to actually speak about it.

[Bapestar]

I think most people mad about Master Loot, are people that failed horribly at their role and received no loot. Ninja looters are not that rampant. There were plenty of pugs that used Personal loot, and I don't remember anyone bitching about Master Loot. Unnecessary change by blizzard.

[Grimnakh]

The main problem isnt ninjalooting, its reserves to begin with. If someone isnt good enough for your raid, then kick them. If they are they deserve the loot just as much as anyone else there. I've had a much easier time getting pugs since the change was made, because people that dont have a tightnit group of people to form the core of a raid, and play more on their own are encpuraged to join with higher ilvls instead of leveling favor with a raid leading team. Its better for the game, you can still trade loot, the majority on this is overwhelming, and Im exstatic Blizz did this, partly because it shows how unpopular people who were doing this really were, instead of having their ass kissed by people who wanted to get involved in regular group. The arrogance of pro ML people is so agregious on these forums, and its very revealing, and shows exactly why the change was needed.