Clawing Shadows Stealth Nerfed

**Coldvibes** · 2016-07-31, 08:46 PM

Coming in here and saying DKs do top tier DPS while ignoring WW, Assassination, Havoc and Enhancement really tells me you haven't seen much on beta.

**Sarkol** · 2016-07-31, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Coldvibes

Coming in here and saying DKs do top tier DPS while ignoring WW, Assassination, Havoc and Enhancement really tells me you haven't seen much on beta.

I've seen every class in all situations, for months. Dk's are top tier dps. I couldn't give a fuck about other classes because it's not relevant to the discussion.

**Emophia** · 2016-07-31, 09:38 PM

So, do we have a source on this DA removal?

Deleted · 2016-07-31, 09:54 PM

never even used clawing shadows a 30yd melee ability sounded retarded to me ive always played castigator

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Coldvibes

Coming in here and saying DKs do top tier DPS while ignoring WW, Assassination, Havoc and Enhancement really tells me you haven't seen much on beta.

this is a dk foru mwhy would we care about other classes, ive mained dk since 2008 and i continue to do so , only other class ive played was warrior from classic to wrath

**Coldvibes** · 2016-07-31, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sarkol

I've seen every class in all situations, for months. Dk's are top tier dps. I couldn't give a fuck about other classes because it's not relevant to the discussion.

Basically saying, lalalalalalalal don't care DKs best even though ignoring the other clear outliers, got it.

**RuneDK** · 2016-07-31, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Coldvibes

Coming in here and saying DKs do top tier DPS while ignoring WW, Assassination, Havoc and Enhancement really tells me you haven't seen much on beta.

Unholy is one of, if not the top plate melee and competing with all the classes you've listed. The disadvantage it has now is mobility while all these specs have much better mobility except possibly enhancement but they're doing the same/more damage. That's a problem overall. But DK specs are both doing well on beta atm.

**Beefkow** · 2016-07-31, 10:35 PM

I don't care that CS got nerfed.

Changes that happen behind my back just pisses me off.

**RuneDK** · 2016-07-31, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Beefkow

I don't care that CS got nerfed.

Changes that happen behind my back just pisses me off.

I don't think it was intentionally done behind peoples back. I think they fucked up, had a miscommunication and pushed stuff earlier than they anticipated.

**psyquest** · 2016-07-31, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by RuneDK

Unholy is one of, if not the top plate melee and competing with all the classes you've listed. The disadvantage it has now is mobility while all these specs have much better mobility except possibly enhancement but they're doing the same/more damage. That's a problem overall. But DK specs are both doing well on beta atm.

I have been saying the exact same thing but got no reaction. You have a class that has no mobility compared to the other melee yet in terms of dps (whilst it good), other highly mobile classes can match it in dps or do even better (I am watching you demon hunters).

In any rpg, classes have strengths and weaknesses. The obvious weakness of DKs is mobility. One would assume the strength would be undeniably superior dps. But that is not the case. It is good dps, but not stronger enough compared to other melee to justify the lack of mobility. In fact in some cases it is not at all superior to other melee.

That is a reason why one has to consider, beside fantasy, if it is worth it to sacrifice mobility for no gains.

**cRawmode** · 2016-07-31, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by psyquest

I have been saying the exact same thing but got no reaction. You have a class that has no mobility compared to the other melee yet in terms of dps (whilst it good), other highly mobile classes can match it in dps or do even better (I am watching you demon hunters).

In any rpg, classes have strengths and weaknesses. The obvious weakness of DKs is mobility. One would assume the strength would be undeniably superior dps. But that is not the case. It is good dps, but not stronger enough compared to other melee to justify the lack of mobility. In fact in some cases it is not at all superior to other melee.

That is a reason why one has to consider, beside fantasy, if it is worth it to sacrifice mobility for no gains.

That is exactly how I feel and what makes it so hard for me to really decide on playing DK as main coming Legion. When I compare this class to my fury warrior or even WW monk there is a huge gap in the mobility department and I don't see how a bit more survability via corpse shield or dots that can be applied from range (and aoe with epidemic) can outweigh this huge disadvantage being a slowpoke which makes anything in mythic+ and raiding SO MUCH more difficult.

**Museigen** · 2016-07-31, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by psyquest

I have been saying the exact same thing but got no reaction. You have a class that has no mobility compared to the other melee yet in terms of dps (whilst it good), other highly mobile classes can match it in dps or do even better (I am watching you demon hunters).

In any rpg, classes have strengths and weaknesses. The obvious weakness of DKs is mobility. One would assume the strength would be undeniably superior dps. But that is not the case. It is good dps, but not stronger enough compared to other melee to justify the lack of mobility. In fact in some cases it is not at all superior to other melee.

That is a reason why one has to consider, beside fantasy, if it is worth it to sacrifice mobility for no gains.

"Class Fantasy"

**Kronik85** · 2016-07-31, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by psyquest

I have been saying the exact same thing but got no reaction. You have a class that has no mobility compared to the other melee yet in terms of dps (whilst it good), other highly mobile classes can match it in dps or do even better (I am watching you demon hunters).

In any rpg, classes have strengths and weaknesses. The obvious weakness of DKs is mobility. One would assume the strength would be undeniably superior dps. But that is not the case. It is good dps, but not stronger enough compared to other melee to justify the lack of mobility. In fact in some cases it is not at all superior to other melee.

That is a reason why one has to consider, beside fantasy, if it is worth it to sacrifice mobility for no gains.

No class deserves "superior DPS", what we do have however is some of the best defensive CD's in the game and we are easily the tankiest out of the Plate melee. AMS is strong with a low CD and IBF is pretty decent especially when you factor in that we generally layer it with AMS or Corpse Shield. People blow the mobility argument out of proportion, we still deal disease damage and pet damage from range and can even DC if we have the RP for it or Epidemic which is hilariously strong and easy to use.

Unholy is one of the best specs in a real world raiding environment atm, that's undeniable.

**Rothulean1** · 2016-07-31, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Beefkow

I don't care that CS got nerfed.

Changes that happen behind my back just pisses me off.

My issue is that Unholy didnt need it. So im hoping for compensation tuning. CS needed a nerf. But Unholy did not.

**Baddok21** · 2016-08-01, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Kronik85

No class deserves "superior DPS", what we do have however is some of the best defensive CD's in the game and we are easily the tankiest out of the Plate melee. AMS is strong with a low CD and IBF is pretty decent especially when you factor in that we generally layer it with AMS or Corpse Shield. People blow the mobility argument out of proportion, we still deal disease damage and pet damage from range and can even DC if we have the RP for it or Epidemic which is hilariously strong and easy to use.

Unholy is one of the best specs in a real world raiding environment atm, that's undeniable.

This is the sentiment that worries me

are we championing here for the spec to be the best plate DPS in the game? or are we championing for the spec to be balanced among all Plate/Melee DPS.

I say this because im assuming Death advance (passive) is being removed to bring Unholy more in line with Frost (because Unholy was not on par with any other melee in mobility to being with), and that CS is being nerfed to bring Unholy's ranged down more in line with Frosts and that Epidemic change is being done to firstly give the talent some form of actual balance and secondly bring it in line with general AoE dmg balance.

From what we have seen Unholy's ranged dmg just took a hit with CS, Unholy's AoE dmg just took a hit with Epidemic/CS+DnD, and Unholy's QoL in Death Advance is about to take another hit. It looks like they are trying to balance the DK specs against each other (which is fair) but im worried the end result is that we have 2 DPS specs that are extremely uninviting to play. I dont want to see Unholy brought down too Frost lvl BECAUSE frost is so Mythic unfriendly from a design and QoL point of view i would much rather Frost share Unholy's perks than Unholy be dragged down to hell (pun intended) with frost.

what im saying is if the next change to Unholy is Corpse shield now only redirects 25%-35% of dmg to your ghoul (effectively annexing Unholys utility over Frost) sure they 2 specs owuld be balanced within a vaccum of themselves but will whats left be worth playing over any of the melee outside the DK class?

**Kitrana** · 2016-08-01, 12:33 AM