Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Rothesh]

I'm trying to learn the subtlety rotation, so i practiced a bit on a dummy with the "Tell Me When" Addon.
I think the addon works pretty well, the uptime on the debuff and buff are fine.
But it doesn't take into consideration pooling energy and saving dances.

anyway, the thing is, with my current gear (ilvl 702), with subtlety, I can stabilize on like 21k-24k.
and with assassination i stabilize on 45k+

Is this normal?
or does that addon just won't give you optimal results? (let me know if you've tried that addon)
or, subtelty is way more gear depandant?

I use TellMeWhen since forever, there's nothing wrong with it, it won't make you better (or worse) than using other cd/dot tracking addons like WeakAuras.

The thing with subtlety seems to be the class trinket - it gives a huge dps boost, it's by far the strongest trinket for sub. If you don't have it Sub will be way behind Assa (even with it it's behind but not by that much).

[pettski]

In my opinion the old shadowdance was waaaaay better

[lolpve]

With class trinket and 730ilevel sub and assassination are pretty much equal for me single target on a dummy. If I take off the trinket I'm willing to bet assassination would be pretty far ahead. Shadowstrike is like 40-50% of my total damage. I hope the numbers at 110 are tuned to compensate for the loss of that trinket.

[Celfydd]

With class trinket and 730ilevel sub and assassination are pretty much equal for me single target on a dummy. If I take off the trinket I'm willing to bet assassination would be pretty far ahead. Shadowstrike is like 40-50% of my total damage. I hope the numbers at 110 are tuned to compensate for the loss of that trinket.

For me (same ilvl and class trinket) Shadowstrike is always behind Nightblade in a sustained ST rotation, doing around 30% of total damage. Perhaps it's because my daggers are low in comparison to the ilvl of the rest of my gear?

[Rothesh]

For me (same ilvl and class trinket) Shadowstrike is always behind Nightblade in a sustained ST rotation, doing around 30% of total damage. Perhaps it's because my daggers are low in comparison to the ilvl of the rest of my gear?

Possible, weapon dps is very important for Sub now. When I simmed my rogue (mythic Fang of the Pit in MH) I always had Shadowstrike as top damage source.

[Houselol]

Is there any penalty for using a slow offhand as sub right now? I don't have a second dagger so I'm just using the highest itemlevel weapon I can use in my OH.

[shaunika123]

Is there any penalty for using a slow offhand as sub right now? I don't have a second dagger so I'm just using the highest itemlevel weapon I can use in my OH.

you'll have slightly less ST procs but overall just use the OH with the best stats/highest ilvl

For me (same ilvl and class trinket) Shadowstrike is always behind Nightblade in a sustained ST rotation, doing around 30% of total damage. Perhaps it's because my daggers are low in comparison to the ilvl of the rest of my gear?

you should always have SS as #1 if u got class trinket, the t18 setbonus and the short fights allow almost constantly enabled shadow strike and 1 SS deals more dmg than an evis with the trinket

[Raakel]

So I dusted off my rogue recently and also got invited into beta.... yay! I have to say Sub is so much fun in BG's I didn't expect it at first. I abandoned Sub in WoD and the rogued in general cause I got a bit tired of melee jump and run. BUT the new sub is totally awesome in my opinion. You stick to targets like glue and the gamplay with shadowdance is more enjoyable than I thought. Also tried Sin but found it pretty boaring once Exsanguinate is on CD. My current favourites are definitely Sub and WW monks. But Sub will be my old new main I guess. :-)

[Deleted]

Just a quick question about AoE as sub... when there's aoe to be done, say trash packs, is it better to pop dance and spam shuriken storm completely ignoring the combo points i generate or shuriken storm -> eviscerate -> shuriken storm - eviscerate etc?

Because inside a single dance you can do 5 globals only (if you have subterfuge), consuming combo points gives me more regen on shadow dance charges but my aoe is almost non-existant, while if i spam shuriken storm i do "ok" aoe but my shadow dance charges and gone for a while.

[Celfydd]

Just a quick question about AoE as sub... when there's aoe to be done, say trash packs, is it better to pop dance and spam shuriken storm completely ignoring the combo points i generate or shuriken storm -> eviscerate -> shuriken storm - eviscerate etc?

It depends on several factors, notably: (1) how many mobs there are in range, (2) what your energy regen is like, and (3) how long lived they will be. If the answer to 1 is many and 2 is fine, it will be best to pop dance and ignore finishers, unless the answer to 3 is quite long, in which case you should multidot with Nightblade. Only use Eviscerate when you have full combo points and there are only a few mobs left / on low health, unless your energy regen is insufficient to sustain Shuriken Storm spam.

[lolpve]

Just a quick question about AoE as sub... when there's aoe to be done, say trash packs, is it better to pop dance and spam shuriken storm completely ignoring the combo points i generate or shuriken storm -> eviscerate -> shuriken storm - eviscerate etc?

Because inside a single dance you can do 5 globals only (if you have subterfuge), consuming combo points gives me more regen on shadow dance charges but my aoe is almost non-existant, while if i spam shuriken storm i do "ok" aoe but my shadow dance charges and gone for a while.

If the mobs take time to die I alternate Storm > Nightblade rotating around targets, otherwise just Storm>Evis on one target. If there aren't enough mobs to hit a 5pt finisher every other global then I just do single target rotation. That's just how I've been playing I dont know if its quite optimal. I think the only situation where it's better to just spam shuriken storm without finishers and burn through dance charges is when there are a ton of mobs that you want to burst aoe down.

[shaunika123]

Just a quick question about AoE as sub... when there's aoe to be done, say trash packs, is it better to pop dance and spam shuriken storm completely ignoring the combo points i generate or shuriken storm -> eviscerate -> shuriken storm - eviscerate etc?

Because inside a single dance you can do 5 globals only (if you have subterfuge), consuming combo points gives me more regen on shadow dance charges but my aoe is almost non-existant, while if i spam shuriken storm i do "ok" aoe but my shadow dance charges and gone for a while.

long aoe fight: storm+nightblade spreading
short aoe fight: storm+evis on the biggest target

always use finishers otherwise you'll run out of dance :P

[Celfydd]

long aoe fight: storm+nightblade spreading
short aoe fight: storm+evis on the biggest target

always use finishers otherwise you'll run out of dance :P

If it's short you won't run out of dance

[shaunika123]

If it's short you won't run out of dance

yes but you'll still need the dance charges for whatever'S after

yes if you're gonna AOE a couple mobs then do nothing the next 2-3 minutes then by all means just spam shurriken storm

but that's not how it usually works

[classic username]

dont know how to play without a Shadowdance bar

this is fucking cancer... ah well pretty much whole class is now after the changes

[Celfydd]

yes but you'll still need the dance charges for whatever'S after

yes if you're gonna AOE a couple mobs then do nothing the next 2-3 minutes then by all means just spam shurriken storm

but that's not how it usually works

Very true - but I thought the OP was interested in maximising the AoE DPS - not whatever comes after

[shaunika123]

dont know how to play without a Shadowdance bar

this is fucking cancer... ah well pretty much whole class is now after the changes

it's not that bad, especially now with t18, there's barely moments when you're not in vanish/dance

i use like 10 backstabs on 4 minute fights

you get used to it after dummying for a while

i mean it's terrible but the terribleness comes mostly from the principle of why does this even exist not the gameplay itself which is awkward but it's not as bad, i dont even notice it anymore. im actually enjoying all 3 specs and i hated 1 of them in WoD so technically it has improved. i understand why someone wouldnt like it, cos it is entirely new, but brushing them off as "OMG ITS CANCER COS IT'S NOT THE EXACT SAME SPEC" comes off childish and not constructive at all

and in pvp you're literally never out of dance unless you get CCd for long periods due to shadow's caress+phantom assasin

[Raakel]

What's it with the friggin stance bar?!

I have my bailities all lined up in my 1 + 2 action bar and if you're not brain dead you know which of them you can use while in stealth/dance and which not. There's realy no point in having this other than a habbit. You can adjust to it in no time...

Also have you tried Dominos actions bars? It can change bars when you activate stealth but for years I disabled it because I always want to see all my abilities.

[classic username]

nah im not gonna get used to that after Years.. its easier to just not give a fuck about sub anymore since the Spec looks like a Joke so far

[Felpacino]

Yo guys, this spec or Feral?