Death Penalty in Sweden

[Eldar45]

Yes, if there is proof beyond any shadow of doubt that the person convicted is definitely guilty.

Charlie Manson is still rotting on death row, living on tax payer money. He should have been in the ground a long time ago.

[XDurionX]

There's no reason to support it. Justice makes mistakes quite often, and a mistake regarding death penalty cannot be corrected. It's barbaric and even more expensive than lifetime imptisonment.

[Noradin]

Yep, get their signature make triple sure it's what they want and the government is free to execute the criminal. In this case without legal costs, it would save money.

How would the government prove it was their own free and voluntary decision and not forced on them?
Because states have pulled that kind of thing before.

Thus while it is an idea that looks practicable in theory it isn't in praxis, at least not in the case of prisoners or anyone who is in any kind of institution.

[Deleted]

Oh, we just killed the wrong guy. Shit, I'll guess we'll just have to reanimate him or something.

And yeah 'the past', when times where all sunshine and dancing with each other right. THat's why it was called the Dark Ages probably. Sunshine and dancing.

You clearly can't has sarcasm.

[Noradin]

BTW: Why do we need several threads about this at the same time? Is this some kind of campaign?

[Deleted]

A better question is, why would anyone support it?

1. Because it costs less then keeping someone incarcerated for 50 years.
2. No chance of recidive.

Imagine someone being out for your family in Europe. He kills your mom. Then gets 12 years. Released at 8 for good behaviour. All the while he sits in a comfortable room with television, a computer, etc. YOU pay for with tax money costing around 35k a year. Then he's released and he kills your children. Then dissapears and is nowhere to be found sipping Pina Colada's at some beach. That's what our justice system facilitates.

Now imagine that guy was put to death, given there was plenty of evidence he actually did it.

[Deleted]

No crime is enough to deserve a death penality and there are no pro's which can compensate it. A state cannot become a murderer in any case.

What a drivel.

A state cannot become a murderer in any case.

The exeuction of a convicted murderer after due process is not murder.
Murder is a willfull killing of a stranger for personal gain by someone who has an interest in a death of that person.
Execution is not carried out by anybody with any kind of personal interests. It's carried out by a state on a behalf of the people.

If can't see the difference between two things your opinion is a white noise. You don't know what you're talking about in the first place.


Every single state on this planet is in the business of killing innocent people. Be it cops who shoot and kill criminals with no trial, with no possibility of appeal, no due process, no possibility of reprieve, no chances of proper investigation or the fact that we have militaries that do kill innocent civilians all the time, even in the age of PGM's.

I can only accept any criticisms of death penalty who think all, all forms of negative action (violence if you want to call it that) are unacceptable. Who think we were wrong to engage Nazi Germany within their borders. Who think we should have let the Serbs commit mass genocide in Yugoslavia. Who think we should not bomb or take any action against ISIS.

[Lupinemancer]

I do. I find it disgusting how criminals are treated in Scandinavia, basically in 5-star hotels. It's a disgrace and an insult toward their victims.

[Thrive]

It has been calculated multiple times that in the US it is more expensive to execute a prisoner than to keep them locked forever.


While the person is locked up, they can't kill/rob/rape anyone outside the prison anyway.


Feelings (especially of vengeance) aren't a valid reason to execute someone.

I could keep going, but is this enough?

I suppose it depends on how you view prison. Do you see it as rehabilitation? Justice? Deterrence?
Personally to me it is first and foremost justice followed by deterrence, and I'd say that death is a pretty big deterrence to someone who may contemplating murder. People need to be scared of committing crimes because of the consequences, and I don't think it gets much more scary than the death penalty. If you are willing to kill someone for any reason outside of self-defense I have very little empathy for you in the punishment you receive for doing so and I fail to see how anyone could feel bad for these people.
Granted I think it should be a relatively rare thing used for serial killers or mass murders rather than crimes of passion or botched robberies, but I think it is a powerful tool and statement to keep on the table none the less.
Also anyone who argues 'Well your no better than them' is a child. They made their choice knowing full well the consequences of their actions. Being an adult is understanding that.

[Danner]

General question: Do you support the death penalty?

No.

It's a matter of principle. If you start killing people for good reasons, you eventually kill people for bad reasons. The state doing it is no exception.

The absolute overwhelming majority of criminals in the world aren't terrible people. I believe they should have the option of redeeming themselves. Even if their crime is so horrible it need to take a lifetime. There is some value in it, I think. Executing some 18-year old just because he panicked and shot someone in a moment of desperation isn't right, no matter how much evidence proves that he did indeed do it.

A tiny minority of people are monsters. Anders Breivik, Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper - I could go on. The world would undeniably be a better place without them in it. It's not that this class of people have any rational hope of redeeming themselves. That's why I classify them as monsters; they're hopelessly gone over the edge. But I do believe in giving them the opportunity, as long as society isn't put at risk while doing so. Whether they take the option or not is their path to walk. Removing these people from society without any chance of returning to their trade is how it must be. But killing them is just barbaric, an escape-proof jail cell would suffice. We should be the better part.

Also: How do you 100% certifiably separate between the 18-year old who killed someone in desperation (the criminal), and the 18-year old who killed someone just to watch a man die (the monster)? I claim you cannot.

As for the quality of the jail cell, that is a meaningless part of this argument. The point is to move them out of society. The jail cell, regardless of quality achieves that. There are many things a jail cell does not achieve. I'm not saying it is the best answer. But I very much claim that a criminal's road to redemption isn't harder nor easier if you replace cell mattresses with nails. That's just being vindictive.

[Deleted]

It has been calculated multiple times that in the US it is more expensive to execute a prisoner than to keep them locked forever.


While the person is locked up, they can't kill/rob/rape anyone outside the prison anyway.


Feelings (especially of vengeance) aren't a valid reason to execute someone.

I could keep going, but is this enough?

How exactly is a lethal injection more expensive than 40 years worth of jail, including employer wages, maintanance, water, electricity, food and other supplies? Sounds to me the "researchers" are either shit at math or a lethal injection costs around a million bucks a pop. And if so: You can always use a rope. Costs 1 buck per meter at wallmart.

[Deleted]

General question: Do you support the death penalty?

I dont support the death penalty for the simple reason that NOBODY has the right to kill another person... and that includes the state.

NOTE: You will find a large divide in opinion between the USA and Europe on this one. Americans are overwhelmingly in favour of death penalty and Europe is overwhelmingly against it.

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How exactly is a lethal injection more expensive than 40 years worth of jail, including employer wages, maintanance, water, electricity, food and other supplies?

You understand just how much legal fighting goes on before someone is finally executed in the USA right?

You are talking MILLIONS of dollars per execution... hundreds of times more expensive than keeping someone in prison for the rest of their life.

[Deleted]

I dont support the death penalty for the simple reason that NOBODY has the right to kill another person... and that includes the state.

You are from UK.

Are you for a complete disarmament of the police force in your country? If not, you are a hypocrite since cops in the UK every year kill people with no due process, no jury trial, no possibility of reprieve or appeal.

As I said, unless you are a total pacifist who is also for the abolishment of military - your position makes no logical sense.

[Thrive]

How exactly is a lethal injection more expensive than 40 years worth of jail, including employer wages, maintanance, water, electricity, food and other supplies? Sounds to me the "researchers" are either shit at math or a lethal injection costs around a million bucks a pop. And if so: You can always use a rope. Costs 1 buck per meter at wallmart.

Prisoners are more likely to appeal and they will likely sit in prison for years before execution. Mostly legal fees. It's mostly an argument of principle. Does someone who killed someone else in cold blood truly deserve to live? Is the statement that murder is absolutely not tolerable to any extent more important than the life of a killer?
Though that said, I'd be curious to see how much money is saved by convicts taking plea bargains to avoid the chance of the death penalty. I'd imagine that it's considerable. I wonder if they've done research on that.

[Deleted]

1. Because it costs less then keeping someone incarcerated for 50 years.

Only that it doesn't.

2. No chance of recidive.

Also no chance of rehabilitating. No chance of a 'pardon' when you have the wrong one.


Ironic how people with the worst prison systems think it's oh so good. And countries with better prison systems act as if they're 5 star hotels, yet ignore statistics that pretty much show the rehabilitation rate is a lot higher, crime in general a lot lower etc.

[Thrive]

Only that it doesn't.



Also no chance of rehabilitating. No chance of a 'pardon' when you have the wrong one.


Ironic how people with the worst prison systems think it's oh so good. And countries with better prison systems act as if they're 5 star hotels, yet ignore statistics that pretty much show the rehabilitation rate is a lot higher, crime in general a lot lower etc.

Are you speaking towards Northern Europe? If so then there are many causes to that. It's ignorant to think that your prison system has as much to do with it over other aspects.

[Deleted]

You are from UK.

Are you for a complete disarmament of the police force in your country? If not, you are a hypocrite since cops in the UK every year kill people with no due process, no jury trial, no possibility of reprieve or appeal.

As I said, unless you are a total pacifist who is also for the abolishment of military - your position makes no logical sense.

My position makes PERFECT logical sense LOL

Your fragmented position is the fukked up crazy position which makes no sense.

Europeans do not trust their governments to have the power of killing their citizens... end of discussion.

The USA just loves killing and death... any problems their FIRST solution is to attack it and kill it. death death and more fukking death. Us Europeans are not so fukking stupid thanks. You are welcome to your world of death... we will continue to move forward to a more peaceful society without everyone killing each other like they do over there in the USA thanks.

[Thrive]

My position makes PERFECT logical sense LOL

Your fragmented position is the fukked up crazy position which makes no sense.

Europeans do not trust their governments to have the power of killing their citizens... end of discussion.

The USA just loves killing and death... any problems their FIRST solution is to attack it and kill it. death death and more fukking death. Us Europeans are not so fukking stupid thanks. You are welcome to your world of death... we will continue to move forward to a more peaceful society without everyone killing each other like they do over there in the USA thanks.

You misunderstand the culture of the United States it seems.
You can sit here and deny the logic behind the Death Penalty all you want, but the fact that you'd rather nation bash (and with cherry picked information I may add considering all the terrorism and death currently happening in many Euro countries at the moment) only proves how ignorant you are.

[Deleted]

My position makes PERFECT logical sense LOL

No, it does not.

And hysterical response proves that. And I was not talking about the United States of America. I asked you a question which you have not answered - since you are against death penalty, are you also for the disarmament of the police force in the UK?

Do you also believe in the abolishment of military? Do you think, looking at current events in the world that there are wars and conflicts in which UK should not engage?
Do you think, looking back in to the history that all wars in which UK has participated in, it should not have been in at all?

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If you cannot accept policy that sometimes kills innocent people (death penalty being one of them), you paralyze yourself morally and ethically in so many areas that you simply could not move.

[Deleted]

I don't support it, beacuse a couple years later people would start demanding others' heads beacuse of hurt feelings or petty shit like that. No man should take another's life.

Principle of proportionality.