Max Camera Distance Addon

[Deja Thoris]

You have already been rebuked. The length of time it has been in-game is not relevant.

It's relevant to me. It's all I've known for 99.9% of my wow lifetime. The game feels diminished to me in its current zoomed in state. Honestly, fuck their design intent going forward, this change is fundamental to how the game feels.

No person in their right mind lets something that does no harm and that people enjoy persist for 12 years and then says "sry nope!" Thats fucking retarded. And frankly how you can even defend that kind of action puzzles me.

This addon has been out for 18 hours and 30,000 people have downloaded it. That shows the extent of the dissatisfaction. Feel free to disagree but your position is indefensible as far as I'm concerned.

[Deleted]

Kormok progression, first pillar is on left side...you're a dps warrior. 2nd pillar spawned far right, third spawned middle. there's 8 seconds left until they must die, there is hardly anyone on far right but its at 25 percent.

new max camera looking down you can see your pillar and center one...you would have to be swiveling constantly or wait for someone to call how low it is.

old max camera distance you could make a judgement call see your pillar is going to die in time then heroic leap to the other side and get over there in execute time and make sure it dies.

YES YOU CAN ARGUE THAT SOMEONE CAN SAY "HEY THE PILLAR ON THE RIGHT ISN'T DYING, AND THAT YOU CAN USE FRAMES TO SEE PILLAR HEALTH AND YOU CAN SWIVEL YOUR CAMERA". but really wouldn't you rather just be able to see whats going on?

I've already gone through a discussion with someone where you'll see my "new point of view". Read the thread

[Gorgodeus]

You still didn't counter my arguements regarding DBM and Weakauras (Which off a way bigger advantage in game). Please stop talking about completely irrelevant things and rebuke me, because you clearly cant.

They design encounters around DBM. DBM actually allows them to make more complex and difficult encounters to compensate for it. Weakauras fall into that same category. Neither DBM or Weakauras are hidden behind a console command. Being able to zoom out and see more of the area than they intend is not the same thing. Frankly, many of us are tired of low ceilings and shit being used to negate the camera CVAR.

[Rizendragon]

You still didn't counter my arguements regarding DBM and Weakauras (Which off a way bigger advantage in game). Please stop talking about completely irrelevant things and rebuke me, because you clearly cant.

DBM and WA are timers and bars. They can point to where the bad is coming from or where the guy with bad shit x, y, z debuff that 1hkos you if you're within 7 yds of him, but they don't move your character or turn/zoom out your camera for you if they aren't within your view. People don't want to admit that visual information is more valuable than a bar or a timer because they don't realize how much they absorb, process, and react to what they see within a fraction of a second without having to move their eyes to a bar, read, it, and then react.

I'm one of the few that have accepted Blizzard's response and agree with them. I play a melee. I raid mythics. I get it that having the max viewdistance helps with not seeing the bad's junk, but having a gigantic view distance basically makes you a controllable RTS unit. I keep going back to the room where the Garrosh encounter occurred. Seeing that entire room that was basically 300yds across in one camera view from the center of the room trivialized the stars. I think it's this kind of thing they want to temper. They want you moving your camera. That is part of the skill cap of the game. Looking around you, staying out of the shit, and still executing your priority well while staying vigilant.

[Deja Thoris]

was basically 300yds across in one camera view from the center of the room trivialized the stars.

So moving because bigwigs said - in your ears - 5,4,3,2,1 didn't trivialize it but being able to see them without monoging your camera about like a spastic did?

Go and take a logic class.

[Rizendragon]

Kormok progression, first pillar is on left side...you're a dps warrior. 2nd pillar spawned far right, third spawned middle. there's 8 seconds left until they must die, there is hardly anyone on far right but its at 25 percent.

new max camera looking down you can see your pillar and center one...you would have to be swiveling constantly or wait for someone to call how low it is.

old max camera distance you could make a judgement call see your pillar is going to die in time then heroic leap to the other side and get over there in execute time and make sure it dies.

YES YOU CAN ARGUE THAT SOMEONE CAN SAY "HEY THE PILLAR ON THE RIGHT ISN'T DYING, AND THAT YOU CAN USE FRAMES TO SEE PILLAR HEALTH AND YOU CAN SWIVEL YOUR CAMERA". but really wouldn't you rather just be able to see whats going on?

This is exactly what I and Blizzard are talking about. They want us moving our camera. They want us to work together more. Not having that camera distance would have made this encounter more difficult in that the pillar may have exploded and killed the raid. There is personal awareness and group awareness. They both factor into the skill cap of a raid group. What I would "rather do" really isn't relevant here.

[Deleted]

They design encounters around DBM. DBM actually allows them to make more complex and difficult encounters to compensate for it. Weakauras fall into that same category. Neither DBM or Weakauras are hidden behind a console command. Being able to zoom out and see more of the area than they intend is not the same thing. Frankly, many of us are tired of low ceilings and shit being used to negate the camera CVAR.

DBM and WA are even more hidden if anything, you need to go and download them from a 3rd party site, at least with the (old) max camera distance you just had to type in a string.

Now that the max camera distance is coming from an addon it's only as hidden as the addon being discussed here. So presumably you're fine with max-camera distance if it's done via an addon? At which point why not just add it to the base game and save you jumping through hoops.


I'm perfectly happy with the current max camera distance since I was never zoomed all the way out, but the arguments against is are ludicrous.

[Rizendragon]

So moving because bigwigs said - in your ears - 5,4,3,2,1 didn't trivialize it but being able to see them without monoging your camera about like a spastic did?

Go and take a logic class.

It's the combination of the two. It's tons of information. For some seeing them is more valuable than hearing the count down timer and for others it's the opposite. I'm not so sure what is so illogical about that?

[Gorgodeus]

So moving because bigwigs said - in your ears - 5,4,3,2,1 didn't trivialize it but being able to see them without monoging your camera about like a spastic did?

Go and take a logic class.

Bossmod add-ons allows them to make encounters a lot more complex and challenging. Plain and simple. Without such add-ons coming along, they would have had to make encounters much less appealing and bland. Your camera does not have anything to do with a timer.

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DBM and WA are even more hidden if anything, you need to go and download them from a 3rd party site, at least with the (old) max camera distance you just had to type in a string.

Now that the max camera distance is coming from an addon it's only as hidden as the addon being discussed here. So presumably you're fine with max-camera distance if it's done via an addon? At which point why not just add it to the base game and save you jumping through hoops.


I'm perfectly happy with the current max camera distance since I was never zoomed all the way out, but the arguments against is are ludicrous.

Pretty much everyone finds out about add-ons soon after they start playing. Nowhere have I said anything about being fine with the camera add-on. Only a fool would think that Blizzard would be fine with one that bypasses something they just removed.

[exia00111]

not acting upon it would basically say - we'll change the game how we want it, but you can ignore us and change it back with addons lol.

so, basically whats already going on with advancedinterface and dejacharacterstats addons?

[Msshammy]

Bossmod add-ons allows them to make encounters a lot more complex and challenging. Plain and simple. Without such add-ons coming along, they would have had to make encounters much less appealing and bland. Your camera does not have anything to do with a timer.

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Pretty much everyone finds out about add-ons soon after they start playing. Nowhere have I said anything about being fine with the camera add-on. Only a fool would think that Blizzard would be fine with one that bypasses something they just removed.

You're kind of arguing with yourself there.. If they designed encounters around DBM it would be a core function of the game itself. Removing them would make the game harder for a mass majority of players. But on the other side you say that camera zoom being fixed allows them to make the game harder.. really? lol

[Gorgodeus]

so, basically whats already going on with advancedinterface and dejacharacterstats addons?

Apples to oranges. They simplified the stats interface to get rid of useless info. Regaining that info does not impede on their design intent.

[ant13]

That addon made my day.... WoW is back again!

[Hotmail]

I know that Blizzard's official stance on this is that they're trying to eliminate "competitive advantages" but this really just comes off as being another complaint from the art team like no-flying.

Either way I'm going to give this a try as there isn't going to be much risk from a user standpoint. There will be a lot of raiders who will want their cam distance back and there is no way Blizzard is going to start banning them just as Legion is about to launch.

[Gorgodeus]

You're kind of arguing with yourself there.. If they designed encounters around DBM it would be a core function of the game itself. Removing them would make the game harder for a mass majority of players. But on the other side you say that camera zoom being fixed allows them to make the game harder.. really? lol

No, I am not arguing with myself. They have stated they design around DBM. There is no "if".

Nowhere did I state that the camera fix allows them to make the game harder. I said it makes the game easier than intended, and the only way to counteract that is having confined spaces, which limits game design.

[Fang7986]

here's the thing - the game changes, the game evolves, the game goes in many directions. that doesn't mean we're not allowed to complain about it. personally, i agree that the camera distance change was a very bad idea. i don't feel comfortable tanking mannoroth when i can't see around him. that is my opinion. if the majority of other tanks feel that they're fine with the camera changes and don't feel that they need the camera distance to be far enough to see around him, then i will have to suck it up and deal with it. that doesn't mean i'm going to stop complaining.

blizzard seemingly misunderstood, according to some people in this thread (myself included), just how many people disagree with the change. i don't think blizzard expected this much of an outcry at this change.

to use a different example, i personally hate the new models and avoid using them at all costs, but i understand that i'm in the minority. i am still going to complain about the new models to my friends, but i don't expect blizzard to do anything about it because it would take way too much development time and resources to satisfy me, a member of a relatively small minority.

the main point of argument here shouldn't be whether or not the people who disagree with you are stupid, the point of argument should be how many people think this change needs to be reverted. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the old camera distance, then blizzard should make the view distance slider go to the old distance. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the new camera distance, then blizzard should disable the ability to alter the max camera distance through addons to way beyond what you can normally achieve.

The's the point exactly. It wasn't a vast majority of players using the command to increase the max camera distance because the vast majority of players never even knew the command existed.

[Rizendragon]

You're kind of arguing with yourself there.. If they designed encounters around DBM it would be a core function of the game itself. Removing them would make the game harder for a mass majority of players. But on the other side you say that camera zoom being fixed allows them to make the game harder.. really? lol

Except they have also said in the past that certain add-ons are maintained and executed better than they could maintain or design. DBM and the like have a ton of customization that wouldn't otherwise be possible if it was hard wired into the code. Using direct quotes from Blizzard isn't an argument against one's self. If anything AVR and the subsequent addition of the "raid flare" feature is an example of what is too far, and how Blizzard accommodates the community to combat any future desire to tamper with the environment to that extent. Blizzard is perfectly fine with DBM staying in the hands of the community, and this can be evidenced in that one of the loading screen tips informs new players about add-ons. Again Camera distance provides a different kind of information than add-ons do.

[precious]

Apples to oranges. They simplified the stats interface to get rid of useless info. Regaining that info does not impede on their design intent.

I agree. So much useful information like energy regen or AP or AS. I mean for the love of god, why a rogue would need to see his energy regen so he knows when to stop going for haste. But on the other hand they kept armor cause knowing as a dps how much physical reduction i have, is vital. Its all about the tanking melees.

But they oversimplified stats cause they are expecting the hordes of million new players, and they dont want them to get lost in an ocean of random numbers.

Sarcasm over

[Rizendragon]

The main point of argument here shouldn't be whether or not the people who disagree with you are stupid, the point of argument should be how many people think this change needs to be reverted. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the old camera distance, then blizzard should make the view distance slider go to the old distance. if the vast majority of the playerbase prefers the new camera distance, then blizzard should disable the ability to alter the max camera distance through addons to way beyond what you can normally achieve.

When it comes to raid design. this is that part of the argument that doesn't matter. It literally becomes "adapt or change" at this point. Blizzard has said as much about certain things previously. You can move your camera to see around the big bad which is what Blizzard wants us to do. I'm sure you can see between his legs or around his hip if you swivel the camera around.

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I agree. So much useful information like energy regen or AP or AS. I mean for the love of god, why a rogue would need to see his energy regen so he knows when to stop going for haste. But on the other hand they kept armor cause knowing as a dps how much physical reduction i have, is vital. Its all about the tanking melees.

But they oversimplified stats cause they are expecting the hordes of million new players, and they dont want them to get lost in an ocean of random numbers.

Sarcasm over

Though I agree with you that removing much of the stats interface was a ridiculous idea and took away much of the gearing information we rely upon the camera distance is a different argument.

[ant13]

Nowhere did I state that the camera fix allows them to make the game harder. I said it makes the game easier than intended, and the only way to counteract that is having confined spaces, which limits game design.

Come on!!! how many guilds will have killed archie mythic without the weak auras or exorsus addon for the beams? the top 2, 3 lets say 10.... Wasn't that addon at the time being game breaking? It was. Or did they had in mind "Well lets make an encounter on which the players will have to figure out a weak aura or two, to kill the boss".

Why the hell the camera distance is game breaking and thus the addon must be removed? Have you tried to raid lead from melee range with the new camera?

If you (not personally you xD) don't like the addon, don't use it.
Let us poor people enjoy the game the way we like it.

Peace!