DC flops again: Suicide Squad 34%

[Deleted]

This doesn't mean of course that everyone who disliked the film is a misgynist douche, but I would guess most are.

Disagree. Massively.

You could replace the four female leads with male leads and it still wouldn't be funny. The fact that the leads are women doesn't factor into it, it's just a nice way to deflect criticism by a director/writer who can't take criticism and a studio that desperately needs a hit franchise.

A sequel will kill any hope of a Ghostbusters franchise dead. Not because of women, but because as a comedy it utterly fails at the one thing it should do, being funny.

[pateuvasiliu]

And to be honest, I think most people claiming the film is terrible are actually still just misogynists with an ulterior agenda. You just have to look at what happened on IMDB to see it plain as day. A massive number of people rated it a "1" the day it went live, almost all of them young men.

I, too, put my exact real life information into my internet accounts.

I also send my E-mail and Password to Blizzard's Emails when they ask. So odd that they'd ask 10 times a year, though. You'd think they have better memory..

[Raelbo]

Disagree. Massively.

You could replace the four female leads with male leads and it still wouldn't be funny. The fact that the leads are women doesn't factor into it, it's just a nice way to deflect criticism by a director/writer who can't take criticism and a studio that desperately needs a hit franchise.

A sequel will kill any hope of a Ghostbusters franchise dead. Not because of women, but because as a comedy it utterly fails at the one thing it should do, being funny.

Look mate, there is just no way that the massive number of "1"s that the movie scores on IMDB is justified. Which means that it is genuinely the victim of irrational hate mongering, and the only rational explanation for this is that it is the work of a bunch of misogynist chauvinists.

And let's be honest here, have you ever seen bigots of any kind being honest and admitting that their hatred is purely the result of bigotry? It never happens, the bigots will come up with some BS rationale that sounds a lot like the one you just gave - and a lot of them, I think, even believe their own justifications.

Which is not to say that yours is necessarily the result of any bigotry, but when it comes to something like the Ghostbusters, the vast majority are.

Anyhow, since I have yet to see the movie (it's only out in 3D here, 2D comes next week and I can't abide 3D) I can't really comment on the actual content. My contention is that it actually doesn't matter though. There is simply no other rational explanation for the amount of hate this film garnered months before it was even finished, let alone before those detractors actually saw it. The movie could genuinely be a pile of dogshit, but the 17000 odd male voters who gave it a 1 before it was even showing in most cinemas had no way of knowing that. Theirs was an agenda of pure hate.

[Jakins]

Rotten Tomatoes is a flop

they gave ghostbusters a 73% that is saying it all.
a comedy about queefs and over the top stupid characters is what those critics like.
that alone will tell you what IQ they have.

At least the Ghostbusters film knew what it wanted to be; a dumb, comedic film. They weren't trying to be serious in it and knew it was going to have a reaction one way or another due to it coming from a popular franchise. Remakes are hardly popular in the first place so why not just go full goof? It's an average film at best, at least it's better than a lot of other comedy films out there that come out en mass.

As for Suicide Squad, it tried to be serious yet playful, trying to go in guns a blazin' but wanting to be taken as a new uprising in DC films and...man, it really did kind of fail at that. The writing was incredibly bad, the editing was terribly done and the film was trying to be dark but it was just not working out for itself. DC should try to be less dark and broody when it wants to be fun and exciting because those two atmospheres don't mix very well.

If you like DC then sure, Suicide Squad is alright, but it did so many things wrong with great characters that overall it was just disappointing. It was a new film franchise so it didn't have to worry about sequelitis or being a remake of anything like Ghostbusters.

[Raelbo]

I, too, put my exact real life information into my internet accounts.

Ok, so basically a bunch of women have actually created accounts and falsely listed their gender as male just to give Ghostbusters a low rating to try and prove a point about misogyny? Not saying it isn't possible, it just seems like a hopelessly convoluted and unlikely explanation for a situation which has a far more rational and obvious answer. Unless you're completely paranoid.

[Deleted]

Look mate, there is just no way that the massive number of "1"s that the movie scores on IMDB is justified.

Before the film came out, sure i'd agree with you. Now that the film is out, those 1's are definately warranted.

As for the other comments about misogyny, where is the hate towards Wonder Woman?

I mean if its pure woman hating, surely the Wonder Woman trailer should be getting some serious flack right now, lemme just go check. Oh thats right, massively positive based on likes/dislikes.

You know why people were hating on the film before it came out? Because it looked shit. The trailer was terrible, utterly terrible. They took a well liked properly, sucked all the funny out of it, then slapped 4 women in there as a sure fire way to deflect any criticism leveled against the film, which is the only genius thing about the movie. Critics can't dislike it, because if they do they get tarred with the same brush as the few actual women haters, hence the 74% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

I went to see it on opening day because I wanted to see how bad it actually was, and in that regard, I wasn't disappointed.

But I can actually make these judgements, because i've seen the film.

[pateuvasiliu]

Ok, so basically a bunch of women have actually created accounts and falsely listed their gender as male just to give Ghostbusters a low rating to try and prove a point about misogyny? Not saying it isn't possible, it just seems like a hopelessly convoluted and unlikely explanation for a situation which has a far more rational and obvious answer. Unless you're completely paranoid.

Or maybe most people just put male on their account as default?

I for one put completely random birthdates. Whatever year my mouse falls on.

[Jotaux]

Ok, so basically a bunch of women have actually created accounts and falsely listed their gender as male just to give Ghostbusters a low rating to try and prove a point about misogyny? Not saying it isn't possible, it just seems like a hopelessly convoluted and unlikely explanation for a situation which has a far more rational and obvious answer. Unless you're completely paranoid.

Its about as likely as your conspiracy theory.

[pateuvasiliu]

and the film was trying to be dark but it was just not working out for itself

How was it dark? Only 1 person died and it was a secondary character.

[Raelbo]

Its about as likely as your conspiracy theory.

Oh boy, I guess I really kicked up a hornet's nest here.

Look mate, the line that people like you, Pateuvasiliu and Helden are taking simply reinforces my argument.

[Jotaux]

Oh boy, I guess I really kicked up a hornet's nest here.

Look mate, the line that people like you, Pateuvasiliu and Helden are taking simply reinforces my argument.

How? Where was anything we said misogynistic? Calling a crappy movie crap is not sexist. I think your post reaffirms what we have said, just hating the movie is enough for some people to cry out sexism.

[Deleted]

Look mate, the line that people like you, Pateuvasiliu and Helden are taking simply reinforces my argument.

What line is that? Logic?

If your not going to debate the points i'm putting forward your only proving my point, that any criticism leveled at this film can be deflected by crying "woman hater".

[Raelbo]

Before the film came out, sure i'd agree with you. Now that the film is out, those 1's are definately warranted.

If it was objectively that bad, it's score distrubition would have looked more like that of Plan 9 from Outer Space (arguably the worst film ever made). Or I'd even settle for Adam Sandler's last effort, The Ridiculous Six.

Also, the number of 1's has hardly increased since the movie first opened up for voting. Seriously, it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together and see what is obvious to see.

As for the other comments about misogyny, where is the hate towards Wonder Woman?

Why would anyone hate on Wonder Woman? It's not usurping male roles and replacing them with females. Wonder Woman has always been a woman, and even the staunchest misogynist will find her sexy, because she is.

I went to see it on opening day because I wanted to see how bad it actually was, and in that regard, I wasn't disappointed.

You know, at first I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about that misogyny thing. But the more you type, the more credibility you lose.

But I can actually make these judgements, because i've seen the film.

Look, I could very easily have pretended that I had seen the movie to "prove" my point. The fact that I am happy to admit that I haven't was to illustrate that my argument is independent of personal anecdotes regarding how much you or I personally liked the movie. It is simply not credible that the movie is objectively a "1". And if you want to argue that it is, that places serious doubt over your ability to objectively assess it.

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How? Where was anything we said misogynistic? Calling a crappy movie crap is not sexist. I think your post reaffirms what we have said, just hating the movie is enough for some people to cry out sexism.

You're clearly not paying attention to my argument. I have absolutely not said that. But your line of reasoning is not reasonable. Leading me to question your exact motives.

If you cannot admit that there is something highly suspicious about the extreme negative reaction to Ghostbusters, then it is my rational conclusion that you are most likely part of it.

It is absolutely possible to both think the movie is rubbish but recognise that it has also been the victim of misogyny.

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If your not going to debate the points i'm putting forward your only proving my point, that any criticism leveled at this film can be deflected by crying "woman hater".

Actually mate, I put together an argument that allowed for non-woman haters to dislike the film.

What I have consistently said though is that majority of the criticism has been fueled by "woman haters". And if you can't recognise that then I have to question why?

[Deleted]

If it was objectively that bad, it's score distrubition would have looked more like that of Plan 9 from Outer Space (arguably the worst film ever made). Or I'd even settle for Adam Sandler's last effort, The Ridiculous Six.

Also, the number of 1's has hardly increased since the movie first opened up for voting. Seriously, it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together and see what is obvious to see.

Yeah, its not hard to put 2 and 2 together and see people protesting movies that use feminism as a shield against criticism.

Why would anyone hate on Wonder Woman? It's not usurping male roles and replacing them with females. Wonder Woman has always been a woman, and even the staunchest misogynist will find her sexy, because she is.

Your point wasn't usurping male roles though, your point was that anyone hating on the movie was a woman hater. If that is true, where is the hate for Wonder Woman, another female lead film? Could it be that they were hating on the film itself rather than the actors within?

You know, at first I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about that misogyny thing. But the more you type, the more credibility you lose.

I like seeing bad films, I enjoy watching studios like Sony make mistakes trying to guess what the audience wants and failing miserably. That said, with the exception of Kate McKinnon, who was the worst thing in the film, the female leads actually seemed like they were trying there damndest to make it funny, I was particularly impressed with McCarthy who i've always had down as a one note comedienne, because you could tell she was trying with the incredibly shit material she was being given.

Look, I could very easily have pretended that I had seen the movie to "prove" my point. The fact that I am happy to admit that I haven't was to illustrate that my argument is independent of personal anecdotes regarding how much you or I personally liked the movie. It is simply not credible that the movie is objectively a "1". And if you want to argue that it is, that places serious doubt over your ability to objectively assess it.

Yes it isn't credible that the movie is a 1. I'd personally rate it around a 3. I do believe that some of the people who downvoted the film were woman hating. I completely oppose your statement that the majority of them were doing it purely to hate on women.

I personally believe that majority of the votes on imdb were either done as a joke, or as a protest against the comments made by everyone in Hollywood trying to get an "in" with the SocJus crowd.

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Actually mate, I put together an argument that allowed for non-woman haters to dislike the film.

What I have consistently said though is that majority of the criticism has been fueled by "woman haters". And if you can't recognise that then I have to question why?

First off, stop calling me mate, your not Australian. Secondly, where is your proof about the majority? Seriously, where is the proof?

[Raelbo]

Yeah, its not hard to put 2 and 2 together and see people protesting movies that use feminism as a shield against criticism.

This is exactly the argument the misogynist crowd concocted after being called out for being misogynistic - and long before the film was even at the point where any valid critique could be made.

Look, to a certain extent I agree. The film shouldn't use feminism as a shield against criticism. Unless of course the criticism is genuinely fueled by misogyny. And in this particular case I believe it's pretty obvious to anyone with any rational bone in their body to see that a lot of that criticism stems from just such an agenda.

Your point wasn't usurping male roles though, your point was that anyone hating on the movie was a woman hater.

That wasn't my point. My point was that this film attracted a significant amount of hate from misogynists. There is a significant distinction.

If that is true, where is the hate for Wonder Woman, another female lead film? Could it be that they were hating on the film itself rather than the actors within?

I already explained it. They hate on the movie because of what it stands for, not just because it has female leads. If the original GB didn't exist, then no one would have cared. But the original film contained male leads, and now in our more politically correct era, the filmmakers decided to change that.

And this offended a lot of people because, deep down, they're sexist even if they don't realise it.

I do believe that some of the people who downvoted the film were woman hating. I completely oppose your statement that the majority of them were doing it purely to hate on women.

I personally believe that majority of the votes on imdb were either done as a joke, or as a protest against the comments made by everyone in Hollywood trying to get an "in" with the SocJus crowd.

Which is fair enough. Except that people like me see those who are so vehemently opposed to the "SocJus" crowd as bigots who feel threatened. Honestly, I don't really give a shit about the GB either way. But it's pretty obvious to see that it is a victim of a pretty vicious attack by a group of bigots. IMO fair minded people wouldn't be so petty as to go give the film a 1.

First off, stop calling me mate, your not Australian. Secondly, where is your proof about the majority? Seriously, where is the proof?

Fine, I'll stop calling you mate if you can type "you're" instead of "your". You're English after all :P

As for the proof, I think I've made a pretty logical argument. I am not sure why it's so hard for you to understand. But in short, there is no other credible explanation for the extreme amount of hate for this film. As Spock said, once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains (however unlikely) must be the truth.

For example, the Adam Sandler abortion I referred to scored about 10% of it's votes as a 1. Even if we assume that GB is genuinely terrible, it really shouldn't score any worse than the Ridiculous 6. So at 27% of the votes being a 1, I am going to say that at least 17% was a hate reaction, which is mathematically, the majority.

[Deleted]

I already explained it. They hate on the movie because of what it stands for, not just because it has female leads. If the original GB didn't exist, then no one would have cared. But the original film contained male leads, and now in our more politically correct era, the filmmakers decided to change that.

And this offended a lot of people because, deep down, they're sexist even if they don't realise it.

Disliking a movie because it is remaking and changing a well loved movie into something that is never was. Now I don't hate GB because there are women in it, I hate it because it isn't funny. Pretty much everyone i've spoken to about it whose either seen the film or seen the trailers doesn't like it because it doesn't look funny. Now you could argue that they don't think its funny because of the oft spouted cliche that female comedians aren't funny, but I feel that we are already well past that cliche.

So in a way, I fully agree with you that people are hating on it because of what it stands for, because what it stands for seems to have come before the actual point of the movie, which was to be funny. You can make an all female cast movie if you want, but if you label it a comedy, and it isn't funny, that doesn't mean people are hating women when they give it negative reviews, it means it wasn't funny.

Now your assertion seems to be that people shouldn't have hated on it for "making a statement", but I ask, why not? Is that the world that SocJus wants to see us in? Where every aspect of a thing is pulled apart and stripped away purely to push a narrative? Do you want comedy films to not be funny, but still be pushing a narrative?

As for the "deep down a lot of people are sexist", prove it. You can't.

Which is fair enough. Except that people like me see those who are so vehemently opposed to the "SocJus" crowd as bigots who feel threatened. Honestly, I don't really give a shit about the GB either way. But it's pretty obvious to see that it is a victim of a pretty vicious attack by a group of bigots. IMO fair minded people wouldn't be so petty as to go give the film a 1.

I'm opposed to the SocJus crowd when they take a film like this, that is terrible in its main aim, which is to make people laugh, but they still hold it up as some paragon of SocJus, because it has women in it. Its so asinine, and if anything its more offensive to women than the people who might be hating on the movie because its got women in it. Is saying "Hey, that movie might not have been good, but were going to give a great review because its got women in it" really what you want to see? Because thats we have atm with this film. Critics too terrified to tell it like it is for fear of being jumped on and forced out of the industry.

As for the proof, I think I've made a pretty logical argument. I am not sure why it's so hard for you to understand. But in short, there is no other credible explanation for the extreme amount of hate for this film. As Spock said, once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains (however unlikely) must be the truth.

And your stating that its impossible for the majority of people that disliked the film to not be woman haters?

For example, the Adam Sandler abortion I referred to scored about 10% of it's votes as a 1. Even if we assume that GB is genuinely terrible, it really shouldn't score any worse than the Ridiculous 6. So at 27% of the votes being a 1, I am going to say that at least 17% was a hate reaction, which is mathematically, the majority.

Once again though, your just pulling numbers out of your ass and trying to prove a point with them.

[Jotaux]

If you cannot admit that there is something highly suspicious about the extreme negative reaction to Ghostbusters, then it is my rational conclusion that you are most likely part of it.

It is absolutely possible to both think the movie is rubbish but recognise that it has also been the victim of misogyny.

I suspect it has an extreme negative reaction because it was a shitty movie and right before it released the director and the media called everyone who disliked the trailer misogynistic. People do not like to be insulted.

[Hammerfest]

Well, that's the point of Hawk & Dove: both are right in their own way. What I meant was that the movie was miss that, and turn the entire movie into a political agenda.

Oh I'm aware that Dove would invariably be "proven correct" in a hypothetical Hollywood movie. H&D weren't what I would consider Ditko's finest creations, but I still wouldn't mind seeing any film based on a Ditko creation.

[Zeek Daniels]

Is there a panic button you DC fans need to press? Was at 32% when i woke up this morning and now its 29% on RT. BVS is 27%. Im beggining to think Movie Critics just dont like WB's Direction with these films. WB might want to find some better script writers and better directors moving forward if they want critical reception to move in the positive direction.

I had this feeling a long time ago but doing an accelerated version of the marvel formula seems to be back-firing on them. Hopefully Justice League and Wonder Woman have more time and thought put into them than BVS and SS.

[Hammerfest]

The Ghostbusters concept didn't need to bring gender politics into the mix. It was fine without it.