"Legion pre-purchases are tracking in-line with the previous expansion."

[Tharkkun]

"Legion pre-purchases are tracking in-line with the previous expansion."

This could as well mean: about the same percentage of the active player base has pre-purchased Legion. Which says close to nothing about absolute numbers. I find it extremely hard to believe to see the same sub numbers as when WoD launched.

We knew in April/May there were about 1.5 million pre-orders for WoD. That number was never updated once we got closer to the Warlords launch. What you have are the loyal, never going to quit people who enjoy the game and they pre-order every time. So even if the wishy washy players aren't subscribed you still have your regulars.

[Kolvarg]

I mean, Blizzard could easily be lying to us. Pulling the wool over our eyes. Don't expect it to be true without the facts, which they'll never release.

So, let me get this straight:

Stating number of subscribers in quarter's earnings call -> legit fact
Stating number of expansion pre-sales are in-line with WoD, also in quarter's earnings call -> not a fact, likely untrue information

???

[Tharkkun]

I mean, Blizzard could easily be lying to us. Pulling the wool over our eyes. Don't expect it to be true without the facts, which they'll never release.

Please lie during an investor call and see where that gets you.

[Deleted]

I preordered but I am only planning to do 5mans with friends. I am not gonna raid due to work.

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Please lie during an investor call and see where that gets you.

Also what would Blizzard gain from lying about preorders. I doubt anyone will ever preorder because blizzard says they have a lot of preorders.
I think people mainly get legion because they want to play with their friends.

[Osmeric]

Not if we're talking profit (which is what matters). WoW takes shitloads of resources in both personel and managing the service itself (worldwide servers etc). Hearthstone is a fairly simple incredibly profitable game.

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They don't lie in these reports since it's directed towards shareholders, the only reason they release these numbers is because they, strictly legally, have to.

They are not required to release sub numbers or box sales but they cannot lie if they do so.

[Hiricine]

It seems Wow has a trough number of players around 4-5 mil who will basically NEVER unsub, and appx 8-10 who will resub for every xpac and buy it.

[hyphnos]

So, let me get this straight:

Stating number of subscribers in quarter's earnings call -> legit fact
Stating number of expansion pre-sales are in-line with WoD, also in quarter's earnings call -> not a fact, likely untrue information

???

They didn't state a number of pre-sales, they stated murky mumbo jumbo about sales "tracking those of past expansions" without saying what that means. If they were on track to sell the same number of copies they did of WoD they would have very very little reason not to say so. If however, sales are "tracking" as say a per cent of active subs or some other invented internal metric they would not be lying but just presenting the facts in the most favorable light possible.

Nobody can accuse them of lying, because what they basically said (without further clarification from them) has no meaning and therefore cannot be a lie.

[Maudib]

There you go again. You're saying legion is starting with 10M subs. Again you are just blowing smoke. You have 0 facts or numbers to back it up.

You're right I meant WoD started at 10 million. I have NO doubt that Legion is starting with a LOT less.

Point is.. "keeping pace with WoD" could mean percentage wise not pure numbers.

If WoD jumped 43% from 7 mill to 10 mill... Legion only has to jump to 4.29 from what is a guestimated 3 million current subs to "stay in line with WoD's" increase...

[Archmage Alodi]

Not likely. I can confirm 100% they will sell one less copy. Because it doesn't look good and I'm not being fooled a second time.

Your opinion , looks better than mop and wod to me.

[Maudib]

Your opinion , looks better than mop and wod to me.

Difference is... you are an existing player continuing your sub (i.e. no sub increase). He's a current sub not resubbing or buying. Net loss to Blizzard and the WoW community.

[Tharkkun]

You're right I meant WoD started at 10 million. I have NO doubt that Legion is starting with a LOT less.

Point is.. "keeping pace with WoD" could mean percentage wise not pure numbers.

If WoD jumped 43% from 7 mill to 10 mill... Legion only has to jump to 4.29 from what is a guestimated 3 million current subs to "stay in line with WoD's" increase...

Except that's not even remotely close to what was said. They made no comment on subs. They said pre-purchases were in line with previous expansions. Last expansion pre-purchases were sitting at 1.5 million around April. Which was about 6 months before release. We don't know what the pre-purchase number was 1 second before WoD went live. We don't know how many copies of WoD were sold. We only know that 3.3 million copies were sold in the first 24 hours.


World of Warcraft

• Legion pre-purchases are tracking in-line with the previous expansion.

[Deleted]

pre purchases is for the addicts and they obviously will never go away.
you have to be dumb to pre purchase, so this only shows how many stupid and addicted people still exist.

[xanzul]

Even if this is not just a marketing crap. (Why would they say they have low presales when they can say otherwise and why would you believe them when they have all the reasons to lie, they lied before AND they can't be hold accountable).
The 2 mil rabid fanboys that preorder every expansion =/= the sub numbers.

Lying to shareholders can result in heavy fines and jail time not to mention putting the company's future at risk. They absolutely can be held accountable and their numbers are vetted and confirmed by a 3rd party accounting firm who is obligated by law to report any irregularities to the SEC for additional review.

[Pann]

Except that's not even remotely close to what was said. They made no comment on subs. They said pre-purchases were in line with previous expansions. Last expansion pre-purchases were sitting at 1.5 million around April. Which was about 6 months before release. We don't know what the pre-purchase number was 1 second before WoD went live. We don't know how many copies of WoD were sold. We only know that 3.3 million copies were sold in the first 24 hours.


World of Warcraft

• Legion pre-purchases are tracking in-line with the previous expansion.

So? We know nothing about the amount of Legion pre-orders?

[xanzul]

And we'll see what happens 3-4 months after launch. If it does the same as WoD and 5 million people quit, then there's clearly a problem. I hope that doesn't happen, but after WoD I don't have my hopes up. Pre-ordering is a pretty stupid thing to do, since it's almost entirely based on hype and advertising and not actual quality or content. There's a LOT of beta footage out there, so that mitigates it somewhat, but it's still not really in the best interests of the consumer to do it.

Regardless, I hope the subs stick this time. I'd like to see WoW recover from WoD and pretend it never happened in the future.

EDIT: I think it's funny how they won't report WoW's sub numbers anymore, but they're perfectly happy to wave the Overwatch numbers in everyone's faces.

The number of people playing Overwatch is relevant because it is a new game and most shareholders want to know if newer products are being well received and profitable. Unlike Overwatch, Wow has already proven itself to be profitable long term.

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This is good news for Blizz. It says nothing about the game or the quality of the game.

And, since Blizz doesn't report subscriptions anymore, they could be playing games with the numbers, and you wouldn't know. Furthermore, Legion could die even faster than WoD in the coming months, and you still won't know.

You do understand Blizzard can't make retailers lie for them about how many people are preordering Legion right?

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Not if we're talking profit (which is what matters). WoW takes shitloads of resources in both personel and managing the service itself (worldwide servers etc). Hearthstone is a fairly simple incredibly profitable game.

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They don't lie in these reports since it's directed towards shareholders, the only reason they release these numbers is because they, strictly legally, have to.

Every product has overhead costs but that doesn't mean they aren't profitable. The issue is when revenue doesn't cover overhead costs. Just because one product has a lower profit margin than another doesn't mean it isn't still profitable and worth supporting. Seriously some of you armchair businessmen should go take some business classes before spouting more of this nonsense.

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I doubt that is true, Wow used to bring in well over a billion dollars a year, even if its half that i doubt any other blizzard game comes close. Wow is still Blizzards main cash cow I think.

It is almost like Blizzard was a profitable game developer before Wow or something. Blizzard could shut down Wow tomorrow and do just fine.

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They didn't even say they are the same. "tracking in-line" pr bs to calm the frothing fanboys clutching their wallets praying it won't get another Wod except it will.

It was said at a shareholders meeting. Shareholders don't give a flying fuck about this petty nonsense.

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They are different in the fact that they defend a shit product further encouraging blizz to put out the same crap quality when it comes to wow.
Also different in the way they always deny statistics and facts in general.

Giving Blizzard money is what encourages them to do what they do. They could care less who defends what as long as they are paying $15 a month. He is right you haters are the ultimate fanboys and something I have always maintained since I first started coming here.

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Not sure what this has to do with my comment about entertaining fanboys, but...

As someone who has owned a good chunk of stock in Activision for the last ~4 years, believe me, I am more interested in the quarterly reports as a stockholder than I am as a fan whether playing their games or not.

If you were an investor you would know the name of the company you invested in is Activision-Blizzard.

[Bonerlord]

That means dead servers again

[Tharkkun]

So? We know nothing about the amount of Legion pre-orders?

This entire thread is about speculation. Please keep up.

[Pann]

This entire thread is about speculation. Please keep up.

What kind of an answer is that? You seem to think that the poster you replied was wrong yet you essentially said nothing to disprove his point.

[Krille]

Every product has overhead costs but that doesn't mean they aren't profitable. The issue is when revenue doesn't cover overhead costs. Just because one product has a lower profit margin than another doesn't mean it isn't still profitable and worth supporting. Seriously some of you armchair businessmen should go take some business classes before spouting more of this nonsense.

Where did you read me saying that wow isn't worth supporting? What the fuck? I am actually studying business on an advanced level. I simply stated that the pure profit might be better from Hearthstone because of resources spent, nothing else. Now that's something i read from another source, not something i myself have researched. But it's clear after looking myself that WoW is making enough to be very profitable because it's literally a cluster of income sources with sub model, micro-transactions and a one-time fee for the game. It's no surprise if it's highly profitable.

[Deleted]

My server is pretty dead usually and now Orgrimmar is stacked with people showing off their transmogs and dueling outside and spamming trade chat again. Feels so good to have activity again. Bring on the Legion, cant fucking wait! <3