As a person in life and undeath, who do you think is worse: Arthas or Sylvanas?

[Darth-Piekus]

Wrath of the Lich King - released 13 November, 2008
Rise of the Lich King - published 19 May, 2009
Patch 3.3 Fall of the Lich King', was released on December 9, 2009. It added the Icecrown Citadel raid, where players would fight the Lich King continuing and bringing the main storyline to a conclusion.

[Combatbutler]

Wrath of the Lich King - released 13 November, 2008
Rise of the Lich King - published 19 May, 2009
Patch 3.3 Fall of the Lich King', was released on December 9, 2009. It added the Icecrown Citadel raid, where players would fight the Lich King continuing and bringing the main storyline to a conclusion.

Metzen still disagrees and Arthas eternal damnation is another example of his guilt.

[Darth-Piekus]

Probably but Sylvannas was on that same place so Metzen agrees that they are both equally evil.

[Combatbutler]

Probably but Sylvannas was on that same place so Metzen agrees that they are both equally evil.

They are both rotten, but sylvanas isn't on Arthas level

[Darth-Piekus]

To be in that same place forever to be tormented she definately is on the same level.

[Mehrunes]

To be in that same place forever to be tormented she definately is on the same level.

Blood Elves were thrown into Violet Hold after Purge of Dalaran. The same Violet Hold that is prison to demons or Scourge. Blood Elves are on the same level as the Legion.

[Cizr]

Blood Elves were thrown into Violet Hold after Purge of Dalaran. The same Violet Hold that is prison to demons or Scourge. Blood Elves are on the same level as the Legion.

Comparing "divine" punishment and punishment done by mortals now? Nice mental gymnastics like usual.

[Mehrunes]

I'm no expert at knowing which date is earlier than the other, so perhaps you can help me:

• Wrath of the Lich King - released 13 November, 2008
• Rise of the Lich King - published 19 May, 2009

Well, when you remove 13 from 2008 you get 1995 but when you remove 19 from 2009 you get 1990. Obviously Rise of the Lich King was released first.

You fucking failed at understanding what LK in WoTLK was. Go play Pokemon Go. Its suits the level of your IQ.

What was it then? Enlighten us.

And you trash posts in this thread only about bitching and how others persons are bad/wrong/headcanoned. Thanks for zero effort to discussion.

Thanks for not being able to read an/or lying.

So for you book lore > game (in this case WoTLK) lore? Lolz and you still call someones ignorant.

Nothing in that post says so. Don't straw-man people because it does nothing to prove their ignorance and only strengthens yours.

Comparing "divine" punishment and punishment done by mortals now? Nice mental gymnastics like usual.

Do give a source for the reason why Arthas and Sylvanas ended where they did ever being mentioned anywhere. And any validity for the "if you end in the same place you have to be the same" shitstain of logic.

[steelballfc]

snip.

I may sometimes disagree with you
but I must sault your patience

[Combatbutler]

To be in that same place forever to be tormented she definately is on the same level.

She didn't kill as many innocents, she didn't destroy as much kingdoms, she didn't try to wipe out all life on the globe, she doesn't mind control the forsaken. Sylvanas is rotten but not on the same level as Arthas. Whitemane ends up in that hell too, but she doesn't even compare to the other two.

[MikeBogina]

Arthas in life, was such a relatable character. In the books, he always felt like someone who was thrown into this world from ours. He made the same choices and had the same morals as any of us would have, like not wanting to force himself on Taretha(any realistic prince wouldn't have cared) and he cared greatly for his people. It was his care for his people that drove him right into the hands of the Legion.

Arthas in death, gave everything he had to stop the Lich King. He wasn't the evil we faced.

Death Knight Arthas, an identity created by Frostmourne is the one who did all the evil. And even in the end, that Arthas saved the world and would have done more against the Old Gods and Legion if he won.

Sylvanas in life came off bitchy, but she cared about her people greatly and just wanted to fall in love with the first human man to come her way, like her sisters did. But with her luck, came Arthas. He slaughtered her people and ripped her soul from her body. He tortured her and made her aid him against the rest of her people. This made her quite hateful and use to the Scourge's twisted ways that she was forced to do.

It's hard to separate her, even though she had a moment of death and undeath. She never really became taken over like Arthas or the Deathknights were. They had basically lost their minds and willingly obeyed(till they felt betrayed), whereas Sylvanas was still in her mind, but couldn't control her actions. Arthas left her that way on purpose, he wanted her to suffer so making her completely obedient would have been pointless. After her freedom however, she took this undead persona, no longer caring about the living and killing them to bolster her forces. She justified it to fight the Scourge, and now to fight the Alliance.


Sylvanas is the worse of the 2. She wasn't evil when her situation was good, but she is still the same person. She always had the potential for this evil. Imagine someone like Hitler who grew up in a wealthier family, in a country that wasn't in poverty after a war. He'd probably have lived a decent life and have been a good man. Her transformation is almost like Eric Cartman thinking he had become a ginger(people who he hate) and then became an evil dictator wanting to exterminate all non-gingers.

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Blood Elves were thrown into Violet Hold after Purge of Dalaran. The same Violet Hold that is prison to demons or Scourge. Blood Elves are on the same level as the Legion.

A prison made of people, people who are flawed and have flawed morals and flawed judgements.

Would you say that this "Hell" is made by a divine being, omnipotent and has perfect judgement? Is fair and just, that only people who reach a certain lvl of evil are sent to, while people who were slightly good..er are spared?

We don't know the rules of this afterlife. We don't know if it's for evil people, good people, only mortals or anything else. It could very well be that anyone who was tainted by decay/void, whether a good or bad person are destined to go to.

Did the paladin who was infected need to be blessed and sent to paradise/heaven personally by Naruu, or could a mercy kill have done the same, because was still a good person?? Maybe, just maybe, they did that, because he would have been sent to the same darkness Arthas and Sylvanas were sent to? This is christianity, heaven doesn't make the rules on Warcraft. The Light and Void are more equal than Heaven and Hell.

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She didn't kill as many innocents, she didn't destroy as much kingdoms, she didn't try to wipe out all life on the globe, she doesn't mind control the forsaken. Sylvanas is rotten but not on the same level as Arthas. Whitemane ends up in that hell too, but she doesn't even compare to the other two.

Are more powerful people automatically more evil or good, just because they are capable of more? Scale or power up, her armies to what Scourge and Arthas possessed and see what she does with it. I'd bet she'd waste the entire planet if given the chance.

[Combatbutler]

Are more powerful people automatically more evil or good, just because they are capable of more? Scale or power up, her armies to what Scourge and Arthas possessed and see what she does with it. I'd bet she'd waste the entire planet if given the chance.

Sylvanas has done nothing that would indicate that, we know she is a ruthless beast that will kill those she considers enemies without mercy, but she has no intention to wipe out all life on the planet. Or start wars just for the heck of it.

[MikeBogina]

Sylvanas has done nothing that would indicate that, we know she is a ruthless beast that will kill those she considers enemies without mercy, but she has no intention to wipe out all life on the planet. Or start wars just for the heck of it.

idk, she kinda swept over all of Lordaeron right after Arthas' death, showing no mercy to everyone she came across. She basically went as far and did as much as she could without losing the Horde's backing. I'm pretty sure if given more power and without fear of being defeated, she would do a hell of a lot more and kill a lot more people.

And what I mean by wipe out the whole planet, basically making it a undead party.

[Combatbutler]

idk, she kinda swept over all of Lordaeron right after Arthas' death, showing no mercy to everyone she came across. She basically went as far and did as much as she could without losing the Horde's backing. I'm pretty sure if given more power and without fear of being defeated, she would do a hell of a lot more and kill a lot more people.

And what I mean by wipe out the whole planet, basically making it a undead party.

She still didn't tangle with the faction, she didn't consider an enemy like the argent crusade, the only factions the forsaken actually hit were alliance aligned. If she was for world domination she would not risk something as free willed undead or keep her word with crowley, she did let him retreat.

[MikeBogina]

She still didn't tangle with the faction, she didn't consider an enemy like the argent crusade, the only factions the forsaken actually hit were alliance aligned. If she was for world domination she would not risk something as free willed undead or keep her word with crowley, she did let him retreat.

Could she control all those undead? She isn't a necromancer or a deathknight, she doesn't have any of the Lich King's artifacts that allow control. Maybe it's propaganda, a parent telling their child "I brought you into this world, i can take you out of it!" and with Will of the Forsaken, I feel like she couldn't take over them even if she wanted to. Maybe the moment they're made, but so many were freed from the Scourge.

I haven't done that quest in a while, but I do recall that Arthas had some honorable moments aswell, offering to spare people like crazy, from a fellow paladin to a bunch of High Elves and all of Dalaran. And when he became the Lich King, he offered almost everyone he came across to join him willingly or in death and treated those who joined pretty well. The Scourge had quite a lot more living members than the Forsaken did, which is is taking a bigger risk than undead with wills.

[Traveler Voltin]

She does have that charm spell from WC3.
Though I don't think that it is a mind control. More like mind influence

[Combatbutler]

Could she control all those undead? She isn't a necromancer or a deathknight, she doesn't have any of the Lich King's artifacts that allow control. Maybe it's propaganda, a parent telling their child "I brought you into this world, i can take you out of it!" and with Will of the Forsaken, I feel like she couldn't take over them even if she wanted to. Maybe the moment they're made, but so many were freed from the Scourge.

I haven't done that quest in a while, but I do recall that Arthas had some honorable moments aswell, offering to spare people like crazy, from a fellow paladin to a bunch of High Elves and all of Dalaran. And when he became the Lich King, he offered almost everyone he came across to join him willingly or in death and treated those who joined pretty well. The Scourge had quite a lot more living members than the Forsaken did, which is is taking a bigger risk than undead with wills.

Sylvanas can mind control, she did that with Mug'tol for example. She simply doesn't behave in such a pattern , nothing indicates world domination, she has established an authoritarian state, with the intention to fight the scourge and later reformed it as a bullwark. Heck in the last novel she even didn't even consider becoming warchief, because she doesn't want to hold power in such a blatant manner.

Arthas didn't offer leniency to anyone, he mocked the defenders of silvermoon having Sylvanas tell them as a banshee that he would be merciful if they just lay down their arms and let themselves be slaughtered. Arthas wanted loyal powerful minions to do his bidding and he rewarded them with power, turning them into powerful undead. The cult of the damned is precisely that a cult obsessed with undeath, who wanted to join their ranks, they were zealots.

[Maxilian]

Could she control all those undead? She isn't a necromancer or a deathknight, she doesn't have any of the Lich King's artifacts that allow control. Maybe it's propaganda, a parent telling their child "I brought you into this world, i can take you out of it!" and with Will of the Forsaken, I feel like she couldn't take over them even if she wanted to. Maybe the moment they're made, but so many were freed from the Scourge.

I haven't done that quest in a while, but I do recall that Arthas had some honorable moments aswell, offering to spare people like crazy, from a fellow paladin to a bunch of High Elves and all of Dalaran. And when he became the Lich King, he offered almost everyone he came across to join him willingly or in death and treated those who joined pretty well. The Scourge had quite a lot more living members than the Forsaken did, which is is taking a bigger risk than undead with wills.

Having in mind that the living members (members of the Cult of the Damned) had to drink a potion that basically took away their free will, i won't put it as a "risk"

[Mehrunes]

We don't know the rules of this afterlife.

That was kinda the point.

[Deleted]

thank you for bombing an entire city for maybe one of them become terrorist, even in the game you kill some of non-effected human just for the fun of it.

some magical comparison I see. folk in Stratholme were infected, most of them and when they turn they do bad things involuntarily. there was no time nor means to check them. sometims innocents must die for the greater good of all.