Israel sterilizes its black population

[Deleted]

The practice of women taking birth control? You already admitted there is no proof of it being forced. Do you have a problem with people having access to birth control?

The practice of administering long term shots. Please read up about the report. Its not as clear cut as you make it. I never admitted anything so... What are you talking about?

[Deleted]

So, the word "temporarily" didn't fit into your headline, because it wouldn't make such a great clickbait?

I was thinking that too.

[oxymoronic]

if only temporary i dont see the harm

[Themius]

"It's only temporarily sterilizing those people, what's the harm?!"

[shadowmouse]

Fancy stuff but the correction does not affect the FACT that the practice took place.

Actually, it does. Just that simple, it does. The "fact" presented, and which you are dancing around, was the allegation that "Israel sterilizes its black population". Go and read the thread title.

They were not sterilized. There is no finding that connects it to them being Ethiopian. There is no finding that shows this was government practice. That leaves you with the fact that ... some women got birth control. Get back to me with facts when you have some.

We've linked government officials quotes that admitted the practice took place several times. The reports aren't on whether or not it happened. They're about whether or not the shots were forced.

Try to slow down and type in English. That looked like English, but it is complete gibberish. First you mention "the practice" -- maybe a good show but not a particularly informative description. Then you say reports aren't about something taking place, but you've also said a practice did take place. Which practices are or are not taking place? Then you say reports are about whether or not the shots were forced. OK, so which the <bleep> reports are you talking about now? I understand that not everyone here is a native speaker, perhaps you are or perhaps you are not, but the words that are coming off of your keyboard are not making sense.

The practice of administering long term shots.

Long term, you mean ... three months. As compared to, say, IUDs and implants. Um, right. If one is to be forcibly sterilized, I suppose it is best that the doctor be a complete idiot!

[wurmkrank]

There's nothing "forced" about this. These women are immigrants which means they are going to Israel by choice. If the government tells them that they must take temporary birth control in order to live there then the women have the option to not move to Israel. Nothing is being done against their will

[meathead]

Their are entire tribes of black Jews

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Like occupying Lebanon ?

tribes of black jews? lol-what does that have to do with sterilizing immigrates coming to Israel?

[Deleted]

Actually, it does. Just that simple, it does. The "fact" presented, and which you are dancing around, was the allegation that "Israel sterilizes its black population". Go and read the thread title.

Stop moving posts. The claim was made that there was no proof the practice ever took place. That was shown to be false.

They were not sterilized. There is no finding that connects it to them being Ethiopian. There is no finding that shows this was government practice. That leaves you with the fact that ... some women got birth control. Get back to me with facts when you have some.

Which is irrelevant to the claim being made that the practice never took place.

Try to slow down and type in English. That looked like English, but it is complete gibberish. First you mention "the practice" -- maybe a good show but not a particularly informative description. Then you say reports aren't about something taking place, but you've also said a practice did take place. Which practices are or are not taking place?

Seems to me your problem is not related to English but to understanding. The administration of Depo-Provera

Then you say reports are about whether or not the shots were forced. OK, so which the <bleep> reports are you talking about now?

The ones linked in post #90

Long term, you mean ... three months. As compared to, say, IUDs and implants. Um, right. If one is to be forcibly sterilized, I suppose it is best that the doctor be a complete idiot!

Ah it's only three months so it's ok.

[Karrotlord]

"It's only temporarily sterilizing those people, what's the harm?!"

Birth control shot is not sterilization.

[shadowmouse]

@Djalil Time for you to start a new thread saying what you mean. The title of the thread that you are posting in is "Israel sterilizes its black population" You have failed to substantiate that. I'm not moving any posts, I'm directing you to the topic at hand as stated in the OP's title.

You keep going on about "the practice" Based on your reply, do you admit or deny that the phrase "the practice" refers to administration of Depo-Provera shots *in some manner other than providing routine birth control*? Because that's the point Wildtree asked about, are you simply ranting about birth control?

The "proof" you seem to think you've offered is a restricted access document. I'll have to go by the copy you've posted. The specific finding of that article you posted in #90 is as follows:

The investigation in Israel concludes unequivocally that no instructions were given to begin or continue administering Depo-Provera shots to immigrants from Ethiopia. The four HMOs and Health Ministry said there was no policy to administer or encourage the use of such injections.

So, if you think you've shown anything other than ... women sometimes use birth control? You haven't. You've also failed to extend to me the courtesy that you expect, you have neither read nor responded to the CAMERA article I have linked. Maybe you can't reach it. I'll help with some of the material relevant to things you've said or linked.

What Ha'aretz said about their own article:

Things got so bad that the newspaper itself tried to put a lid on the demonization by publishing a commentary on Jan. 30, 2013 by Allison Kaplan Sommer. Sommer complained that Ha'aretz was the innocent victim of a game of “telephone” in which the original story was distorted by other outlets. The way Sommer tells it, a story about “insensitivity, cultural condescension and yes, perhaps a certain level of racism” was transformed “into some kind of villainous genocidal plot of sterilization aimed at ethnic and racial cleansing.”


To buttress her claim, Sommer acknowledges what should have been evident all along – that the vast majority of the Ethiopian women who use Depo Provera in Israel know what the drug was for, understand its side effects, and continue to use the medication anyways – by their own choice.

Sommer writes that she “believes that the vast majority of the Ethiopian women who received Depo Provera were aware it was birth control and received it willingly, wanting to be in control of deciding when to get pregnant.” She continues:

And some of them – it is unclear how many – preferred being injected at a clinic rather than having to take pills daily in the presence of other family members – husbands or mother-in-laws – who might disapprove of that decision. I also believe that those who did not want to receive the shots and truly wanted to become pregnant were smart enough to stop receiving them. At least some of the drop in these birthrate [sic] is attributable to access to birth control and control over their childbearing that these women wanted.

Wall O'Text, but a transcript with minute references:

Upon viewing the Gabai's "Vacuum" broadcast, which is the basis of Ha'aretz's coverage, it appears that Gabai ignored alternative options and contradictory information, which would have undermined her pre-determined thesis. She does this, in part, by asking leading questions and by placing words in the mouths of her interviewees:

A couple of examples follow (translation by CAMERA):

Leading Questions and Planting Words

2 minutes:

Gabai: So they explained to you that it’s not good to have so many children in Israel

Ethiopian husband, identified as 'B': They didn’t say that. But what they did say to us was if we have many children, it makes life difficult, there and also here. And so they explained the situation to us, and they also gave pills to whoever wanted. “If you don’t get the shot, you will forget,” they said to them, and so they gave them the shot.

6:18 minutes:

Gabai to Amaweesh Alana: Did you. . . did you feel that they did not want your children? That they did not want them to be born?

Alana: [does not answer, tears, wipes eyes]

19:11 minutes:

Gabai: How many children do you have?

Women, identified as "Sh": Now? Four.

Gabai: Now four children?

Sh: Yes.

Gabai: How many were born in Ethiopia?

Sh: In Ethiopia, three. In Israel, one.

Gabai: Will you have more children?

Sh: Of course.

Gabai: Yes?

Sh: Yes.

Gabai: But they told you it’s forbidden in Israel.
Sh: No, why forbidden? There are loads of children. What, why forbidden?

Gabai also ignores the statements from experts, which contradict her thesis. For example, at 13:29 minutes Gabai asks an Israeli doctor "How is it possible that I never heard of this shot? That they never even offered it to me?" The response:

Dr. Danny Seideman [head of the Israeli Society for Contraception]: Given that most women in Israel take pills, among young women there’s a tendency to give what’s known. We certainly have a growing variety of contraceptives, but must of the doctors don’t have time, an hour to give a woman a seminar on the topic of birth control. So a woman who comes from Africa will simply want to continue the same birth control which is, again, terrific and recommended, but there is no culture of taking pills. . . . .

Gabai: And also when we are speaking of Ethiopian women, so we don’t trust them to take their pills every day, so we steer them. . .

Dr. Seideman: I don’t think that anyone . . .I’m not sure that there’s this patronizing. I don’t think anyone is investing in this that kind of energy, yes? Carrying out a poll, will they forget, won’t they forget. I think it’s just simply something cultural from Africa.

Gabai: The figure for the birth rate of Ethiopian immigrants dropped by 50 percent in the last ten years.

Dr. Seideman: That’s a fascinating figure. One possibility is . . . and I hope this is a good explanation is that they are more educated today, and that they want to have a career and not just have children. Another possibility is that they are so poor, yes? That they fear they won’t be able to support the children. I think that’s a patronizing attitude. I have not met Ethiopian women, not intelligent, who didn’t . . . that would have wanted a child but couldn’t because of the shots.

21:40 minutes

Gabai: So how do you explain the fact that Ethiopian woman give testimony about the giving of Depo Prevaro to prevent pregnancies? Shots. Not pills, not other contraceptives, without giving alternatives, to prevent pregnancies already in the transit camps with the explanation that in Israel it is forbidden to have many children.
David Yaso, Director of the Ethiopian Immigrants Department, Absorption Ministry, and himself an Ethiopian immigrant: I don’t believe that they are going into these things, that if you move to Israel, you won’t have kids. . .

With these exchanges Gabai suggests that providing Depo Provera to Ethiopian women is a racist, coercive policy, despite evidence (discussed below) that indicates Ethiopian women prefer the medicine.

In fact, at least two women who appeared in the program indicated that they choose their birth control method by their own free will. One woman (3:40 minutes) says she deliberately chooses not to take pills but to receive the shot, and another woman testifies (16:30) that she decided to stop taking the shot after six months.

More about Ethiopian women and birth control:

Gabai presents this letter in a sinister light, but what she failed to mention is that many women living in Ethiopia want birth control but are unable to get it. According to a report published by USAID in January 2007, thirty-four percent of Ethiopian women want family planning services to either increase the amount of time between births or to limit out right the number of children they have.



That many Ethiopian women want, but cannot get, birth control shouldn’t come as any surprise given that this same report indicates that between 2000 and 2005, the number of women of child bearing age (15-49) who did not want to have any more children increased substantially (32 percent in 2000, 42 percent in 2005). In urban areas, the numbers are higher (40 percent in 2000, 48 in 2005). Moreover, the ideal family size desired by women of childbearing age decreased over this same time frame (5.3 children in 2000, 4.5 in 2005).



These statistics highlight how Gabai portays family planning, which USAID describes as an “unmet need” in Ethiopia, as something nefarious when the variable of the Jewish state is introduced into the discussion.

It goes on, but other readers don't need to have more wall of text. Anyone wanting the full article can access it at: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_co...x_article=2395

[Deleted]

Busy now will go through that in a sec.
Next time read the exchange so you address the right person?

[araine]

And do you notice the conservative save the babies and religious nutcases coming here to defend these women? no you dont since it just shows the typical right wing nonsense and that we see them thinking Israel can do anything and it is never wrong according to these right wingers that would be the first to condemn something a 1/10 severe as this if it was Obama or some liberal country doing things.

Really if you want to get credible on the issues you say you are in favor of. come out and demand that Israel stops these things instantly. But you dont see it so we know whats really the root of the issue, racism as usual

[shadowmouse]

Next time read the exchange so you address the right person?

I'm quite aware of who I'm addressing. The usual sign for that is when the quote has your name on it. Do try to keep up.

I am, however, reminding you that phrases like "the process" become unclear when you have shifted from the topic at hand.

[Deleted]

And do you notice the conservative save the babies and religious nutcases coming here to defend these women? no you dont since it just shows the typical right wing nonsense and that we see them thinking Israel can do anything and it is never wrong according to these right wingers that would be the first to condemn something a 1/10 severe as this if it was Obama or some liberal country doing things.

Really if you want to get credible on the issues you say you are in favor of. come out and demand that Israel stops these things instantly. But you dont see it so we know whats really the root of the issue, racism as usual

Dat logic worthy of Olympics

[BannedForViews]

Sure, but they're Jews. So we have to go straight to the Nazis.

You mean "they're Jews. So we have to make them appear vile and contemptible even if everyone else does similar things."
No one claimed Israel was a bastion of freedom for all (you know, like Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc...) and no one forced these women to go there.

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And do you notice the conservative save the babies and religious nutcases coming here to defend these women? no you dont since it just shows the typical right wing nonsense and that we see them thinking Israel can do anything and it is never wrong according to these right wingers that would be the first to condemn something a 1/10 severe as this if it was Obama or some liberal country doing things.

Really if you want to get credible on the issues you say you are in favor of. come out and demand that Israel stops these things instantly. But you dont see it so we know whats really the root of the issue, racism as usual

I doubt very few people who have such an extreme view on birth control frequent MMO-Champion Forums. I also don't think you realize that championing a cause for yourself =/= championing it for everyone. Very few people like to look beyond their own yard.

[Incredibale]

Yes and we don't even talk about it. Wasn't discussed in any of the history classes I took...people don't like to think that US history is whitewashed but it definitely is.

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/200

Human capacity for evil appears to be endless.

How the fuck do people live with themselves when they do this stuff?

[Deleted]

They do what they have to to do survive. You forget they are surrounded by countries that want them dead and gone. If they adopted the EU SJW garbage, they wouldn't be an independent, somewhat western country for long.

[Wells]

They do what they have to to do survive. You forget they are surrounded by countries that want them dead and gone. If they adopted the EU SJW garbage, they wouldn't be an independent, somewhat western country for long.

So they have to sterilize Jews or they....what? Get conquered or something?

[Merkava]

It's sad and that conspiratorial threads with inflammatory and inaccurate titles like this are allowed to remain open.

[Masoner]

Just more proof that Israel isn't a good country and deserves no help.

Well, laws are normally based off of the society and their views of right and wrong. One sure fire way to keep a new race from breeding and becoming part of your society (effecting it) would be to manually control their reproduction. I believe that was a common practice against Africans when they were sold to other Africans by Africans as slaves/servants.

If you bought a dozen boys/girls and waited till they were 12-15 and castrated them. You could safely keep their #'s under control.

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So they have to sterilize Jews or they....what? Get conquered or something?

It wasn't too long ago that in the US we would fix retarded people.

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Human capacity for evil appears to be endless.

How the fuck do people live with themselves when they do this stuff?

Because they are thinking about their children's future. They don't want competition with their children's children so they control the breeding of a new group of people there.

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They do what they have to to do survive. You forget they are surrounded by countries that want them dead and gone. If they adopted the EU SJW garbage, they wouldn't be an independent, somewhat western country for long.

I think it's very very smart of them. Imagine how the world would be today if through out the centuries and all the slaves used by everyone else or ever were castrated when taken.

Today you'd have a smaller population and it would be much more pure to each area.