Anyone else happy Sylvannas is the new faction leader?

[anaxie]

Absolutely hate it. She used to be cool in back in Wrath but since Cata I can't stand her nor the Forsaken.
I'm a forever Hordie and main an orc, I was skeptical when Vol'jin became Warchief but now it's a mess.

I hope they'll change her.

Why did you go to hate her?

Because she effectively locked down the entire Northern Eastern Kingdoms for the Horde single handedly and commands on of the Strongest armies of all the races?

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She's not my faction leader. She's evil, pure and simple. Nothing she does can undo what she has done in the past.

The horde have had 3 faction leaders in 3 expansions, and all have been mediocre at best. Garrosh was a xenophobic asshole who got worse as time went on, only to end up fucking crazy.

Zul'Jin was a great choice, who they did NOTHING with, until he died to become a plot point to instill the most evil non-badguy in the game.

When do we get a good horde leader who is also effective?

Fine Lets undo what Sylvanas has done.

Oh shit The Burning Crusade never happened because Sylvanas didn't appose the Dreadlords and the Scourge in the North alone and they went unchecked and enslaved Azeroth.

The Forsaken have done more to safeguard Azeroth then the vast majority of the races.

More than Darkspear, More than the current generation of orcs <whats left of them>, More than the Tauren, More than the Humans of stormwind who didn't even lift a finger in the Third War, and so on.

Blood Elves would they be alive let alone hold Silvermoon if the Forsaken never rose to power?
It's a certain fact that without the forsaken the Blood Elves would not only never of been added to the Horde. The would probably be extinct with no one opposing the Nathrezim brothers or Kel'Thuzads Scourge in the North the way the Forsaken had.

Finally lets stress it

Anti-hero
Anti-Hero
Anti-Hero

Blizzard is fond of Anti-Heroes who people or cultures / allies view as doing the wrong thing and they generally become the saviors of the race or many races

Zeratul / and the Dark Templar
Kerrigan / and the Swarm
Sylvanas / and the Forsaken
Illidan / and the Illidari

Evil? Evil is Gul'dan if you're using a measuring stick. Sylvanas? Not even close.

[Abstieg]

My life for the Banshee Queen.

[spinner981]

Finally a reason for the Alliance to wipe out the horde once and for all. If they don't then the forsaken are just gonna scourge everywhere up and the next xpac we will fight Sylvanas as the final boss and it will be called "Wrath of the Bitch Queen".

[anaxie]

Finally a reason for the Alliance to wipe out the horde once and for all. If they don't then the forsaken are just gonna scourge everywhere up and the next xpac we will fight Sylvanas as the final boss and it will be called "Wrath of the Bitch Queen".

Their reason is because the HOrde is focused on the Legion and the Allaince are butthurt bigoted backstabbers?

I mean it's obvious thats the character GENN plays moving forwards after all. Was it surreal for Genn at Broken Shore? To have his allies worry about their own mortality. SOunds vaguely familiar. OH YEAH. It's exactly what Genn did to the old allaince while giving a half assed bare bones effort to the 2nd War.

[spinner981]

Their reason is because the HOrde is focused on the Legino and the Allaince are butthurt bigoted backstabbers?

The Alliance are bigoted backstabbers and the horde focused on the legion, when the horde (including Sylvanas herself) literally just abandoned the Alliance while they were supposed to be fighting against the Legion together, causing Varian to die?

Are you sure you didn't get your factions mixed up?

Oh ya, and who was it again that saved the horde's ass in MoP when they couldn't even handle their own petty civil war, despite the horde bombing theramore, destroying southshore, etc.? Yet the Alliance are the bigoted backstabbers? Ok champ.

[Zulkhan]

The Alliance are bigoted backstabbers and the horde focused on the legion, when the horde (including Sylvanas herself) literally just abandoned the Alliance while they were supposed to be fighting against the Legion together, causing Varian to die?

Causing Varian to die? Varian would have died either way. The only difference is that if the Horde remained, both them and the Alliance would have been slaughtered utterly.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Alliance are bigoted backstabbers and the horde focused on the legion, when the horde (including Sylvanas herself) literally just abandoned the Alliance while they were supposed to be fighting against the Legion together, causing Varian to die?

Are you sure you didn't get your factions mixed up?

Oh ya, and who was it again that saved the horde's ass in MoP when they couldn't even handle their own petty civil war, despite the horde bombing theramore, destroying southshore, etc.? Yet the Alliance are the bigoted backstabbers? Ok champ.

It was made quite clear that the Alliance alone could not beat Garrosh.

[Zulkhan]

Oh ya, and who was it again that saved the horde's ass in MoP

Indeed, because Varian's "let's the Horde fight against itself to save Alliance lives" reasoning was the perfect definition of charity.

And the Alliance came rather close to be backstabbers, it was only needed that Varian gave a crap about Jaina.

[spinner981]

It was made quite clear that the Alliance alone could not beat Garrosh.

But its clear to anyone that they could have easily worked behind the scenes to take out both garrosh and the horde. All they would have to do is keep tipping the scales in the other's favor, so in the end when one is destroyed the other is severely weakened. Realistically, that is what the Alliance should have done, but they didn't, because even though the horde were their enemies and murdered their innocent civilians and destroyed their cities, they still aided them in the fight against garrosh, though they could have easily come out on top while defeating both garrosh and the horde.

Also, I am quite dubious to the claim that the Alliance couldn't beat garrosh by themselves, especially if their forces weren't already weakened by fighting against the horde.

Causing Varian to die? Varian would have died either way. The only difference is that if the Horde remained, both them and the Alliance would have been slaughtered utterly.

It was my understanding that the Alliance gunship was coming in for evac, but because the horde fled the flying enemies (which they were supposed to take down) made it difficult for the gunship to approach, hence it was grabbed by that giant demon because it was delayed so significantly in its escape. The only reason Varian died was because that giant demon grabbed the gunship.

Indeed, because Varian's "let's the Horde fight against itself to save Alliance lives" reasoning was the perfect definition of clarity.

And the Alliance came rather close to be backstabbers, it was only needed that Varian gave a crap about Jaina.

Retaliating to the bombing of Theramore wouldn't even be close to a backstabbing. The horde didn't do anything to help the Alliance, and the Alliance didn't and doesn't owe them anything. Why else do you think Anduin Wrynn is the character currently embodying the "End the cycle of hatred" ideal? Because the horde are not even considering it.

[Verdugo]

The Alliance are bigoted backstabbers and the horde focused on the legion, when the horde (including Sylvanas herself) literally just abandoned the Alliance while they were supposed to be fighting against the Legion together, causing Varian to die?

Are you sure you didn't get your factions mixed up?

Oh ya, and who was it again that saved the horde's ass in MoP when they couldn't even handle their own petty civil war, despite the horde bombing theramore, destroying southshore, etc.? Yet the Alliance are the bigoted backstabbers? Ok champ.

Hah, what a story spinner!

[Natrii]

Her Character Development over the last 10 years, and really since cata has been incredible. The Horde side Cinematic proved how much she has grown i as a leader If she had not have grown she would have had the horde fight to the death and have her and her forsaken retreate. She has gone from the leader of the Forsaken to a true leader of the Horde, in both action and Title. I expect great things from her, It makes me want to roll Horde again.

[Mehrunes]

Finally a reason for the Alliance to wipe out the horde once and for all. If they don't then the forsaken are just gonna scourge everywhere up and the next xpac we will fight Sylvanas as the final boss and it will be called "Wrath of the Bitch Queen".

We've been hearing the same tale for years.

The Alliance are bigoted backstabbers and the horde focused on the legion, when the horde (including Sylvanas herself) literally just abandoned the Alliance while they were supposed to be fighting against the Legion together, causing Varian to die?

Are you sure you didn't get your factions mixed up?

An army retreats from a fight they were badly losing and sounded the retreat, informing everyone within sound radius (which, you know, includes the Alliance) of what they are doing? Those backstabbers /s

Oh ya, and who was it again that saved the horde's ass in MoP when they couldn't even handle their own petty civil war, despite the horde bombing theramore, destroying southshore, etc.? Yet the Alliance are the bigoted backstabbers? Ok champ.

Without allying with the Darkspear Rebellion, i.e. the stark majority of the Horde, Garrosh's True Horde properly juiced up on Y'Shaarj's goodness would have wiped the floor with Alliance. And if the Alliance didn't want their outposts destroyed they could, I dunno, not attack the Horde.

Also, I am quite dubious to the claim that the Alliance couldn't beat garrosh by themselves, especially if their forces weren't already weakened by fighting against the horde.

I'm pretty sure it has been directly stated by Blizzard to be the case. And "if their forces weren't already weakened by fighting against the Horde" is kinda a mood point since they have been weakened by fighting against the Horde for few years by SoO.

It was my understanding that the Alliance gunship was coming in for evac, but because the horde fled the flying enemies (which they were supposed to take down) made it difficult for the gunship to approach, hence it was grabbed by that giant demon because it was delayed so significantly in its escape. The only reason Varian died was because that giant demon grabbed the gunship.

Then your understanding was wrong. The Alliance calls the Gunship before the Horde sounded their retreat and the Alliance was winning on their front. And nothing that we know of stopped Gul'dan from summoning the Fel Reaver earlier. He just did it to fuck up their escape regardless of when it occurred for what we know.

Retaliating to the bombing of Theramore wouldn't even be close to a backstabbing. The horde didn't do anything to help the Alliance, and the Alliance didn't and doesn't owe them anything. Why else do you think Anduin Wrynn is the character currently embodying the "End the cycle of hatred" ideal? Because the horde are not even considering it.

Attacking the force you allied with to take down Garrosh would, however, be backstabbing.

[anaxie]

But its clear to anyone that they could have easily worked behind the scenes to take out both garrosh and the horde. All they would have to do is keep tipping the scales in the other's favor, so in the end when one is destroyed the other is severely weakened. Realistically, that is what the Alliance should have done, but they didn't, because even though the horde were their enemies and murdered their innocent civilians and destroyed their cities, they still aided them in the fight against garrosh, though they could have easily come out on top while defeating both garrosh and the horde.

Also, I am quite dubious to the claim that the Alliance couldn't beat garrosh by themselves, especially if their forces weren't already weakened by fighting against the horde.



It was my understanding that the Alliance gunship was coming in for evac, but because the horde fled the flying enemies (which they were supposed to take down) made it difficult for the gunship to approach, hence it was grabbed by that giant demon because it was delayed so significantly in its escape. The only reason Varian died was because that giant demon grabbed the gunship.



Retaliating to the bombing of Theramore wouldn't even be close to a backstabbing. The horde didn't do anything to help the Alliance, and the Alliance didn't and doesn't owe them anything. Why else do you think Anduin Wrynn is the character currently embodying the "End the cycle of hatred" ideal? Because the horde are not even considering it.

pretty much here is what happened in Cata

Allaince Dwarves / Humans / Worgen push into Forsaken held lands and to their Captiol.

They all get slaughtered.

OMG SHES AN EVIL TYRANT.

No shes an effective General and she just kicked your ass off every bit of Northern Eastern Kingdoms.

No one gives a fuck about Southshore.

In the grand scheme of things its a miracle it even survived the Third War.

And it's destroyed who cares. The Northern Eastern Kingdoms are Forsaken lands. If you want to live there you better put yourself in a grave first if you think you have a claim over their lands.

Thats the whole point. poor southshore! meanwhile in hillsbrad there is an army of alliance setting up encampments to invade their lands which the forsaken of course put them down with the same ruthlessness they would show them.

Infact lets spin it around again. Forsaken have one of the if not the strongest most evolving military presence on the face of Azeroth.

Lets remove the Forsaken from the equation at Siege of Orgrimmar, Or the Assault on Icecrown, or Legion

The planet would of been destroyed years ago if Sylvanas never created a nation out of the damned. She maintained the status quo with her strong military presence rivaling the Eastern Alliane while the Tribal Horde in the West had it's conflicts with Night Elves and the occasional human.

Nevermind without her armies, or the fronts they helped open you would already be fucked.



How many times has Sylvanas been the first to bring the full might of her army to bear against threats to Azeroth?
How many times has Sylvanas stood along against evil most of the factions in WoW never took a part in combating.

Sylvanas didn't steal the Lands of Lordaeron. First of all the Elves and dead humans of Forsaken already died for their lands and lived there. Then those same damned wrested control of those lands not from the noble infallable people of Stormwind. The took it from Arthas and The Burning Legion.

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We've been hearing the same tale for years.




An army retreats from a fight they were badly losing and sounded the retreat, informing everyone within sound radius (which, you know, includes the Alliance) of what they are doing? Those backstabbers /s




Without allying with the Darkspear Rebellion, i.e. the stark majority of the Horde, Garrosh's True Horde properly juiced up on Y'Shaarj's goodness would have wiped the floor with Alliance. And if the Alliance didn't want their outposts destroyed they could, I dunno, not attack the Horde.




I'm pretty sure it has been directly stated by Blizzard to be the case. And "if their forces weren't already weakened by fighting against the Horde" is kinda a mood point since they have been weakened by fighting against the Horde for few years by SoO.




Then your understanding was wrong. The Alliance calls the Gunship before the Horde sounded their retreat and the Alliance was winning on their front. And nothing that we know of stopped Gul'dan from summoning the Fel Reaver earlier. He just did it to fuck up their escape regardless of when it occurred for what we know.




Attacking the force you allied with to take down Garrosh would, however, be backstabbing.

THE ALLAINCE WAS WINNING?

my fucking sides

They summoned all the Lords of the Burning Legion Except Kil'jaeden and you're winning?

You were fucked the moment they all arrived. You are aware the entire broken shore event was an ambush setup by the legion to destroy the factions because dreadlords had already infiltrated and taken over Stormwinds intelligence agency. Mathias Shaw is Detheroc balnazzar's Brother.

[steelballfc]

pretty much here is what happened in Cata

Allaince Dwarves / Humans / Worgen push into Forsaken held lands and to their Captiol.

They all get slaughtered.

OMG SHES AN EVIL TYRANT.

No shes an effective General and she just kicked your ass off every bit of Northern Eastern Kingdoms.

No one gives a fuck about Southshore.

In the grand scheme of things its a miracle it even survived the Third War.

And it's destroyed who cares. The Northern Eastern Kingdoms are Forsaken lands. If you want to live there you better put yourself in a grave first if you think you have a claim over their lands.

Thats the whole point. poor southshore! meanwhile in hillsbrad there is an army of alliance setting up encampments to invade their lands which the forsaken of course put them down with the same ruthlessness they would show them.

Infact lets spin it around again. Forsaken have one of the if not the strongest most evolving military presence on the face of Azeroth.

Lets remove the Forsaken from the equation at Siege of Orgrimmar, Or the Assault on Icecrown, or Legion

The planet would of been destroyed years ago if Sylvanas never created a nation out of the damned. She maintained the status quo with her strong military presence rivaling the Eastern Alliane while the Tribal Horde in the West had it's conflicts with Night Elves and the occasional human.

Nevermind without her armies, or the fronts they helped open you would already be fucked.



How many times has Sylvanas been the first to bring the full might of her army to bear against threats to Azeroth?
How many times has Sylvanas stood along against evil most of the factions in WoW never took a part in combating.

Sylvanas didn't steal the Lands of Lordaeron. First of all the Elves and dead humans of Forsaken already died for their lands and lived there. Then those same damned wrested control of those lands not from the noble infallable people of Stormwind. The took it from Arthas and The Burning Legion.

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THE ALLAINCE WAS WINNING?

my fucking sides

They summoned all the Lords of the Burning Legion Except Kil'jaeden and you're winning?

You were fucked the moment they all arrived. You are aware the entire broken shore event was an ambush setup by the legion to destroy the factions because dreadlords had already infiltrated and taken over Stormwinds intelligence agency. Mathias Shaw is Detheroc balnazzar's Brother.

let him believe that bunch of alliance would have gone through all those legion and kill sargeras

[Zyky]

Where as garrosh for example. Showed possible traits of corruption from the get go. The only thing he desired was to endless send ranks of horde against the alliance. Even if it meant to their death.

That's far from true. In Wrath he was an arrogant crybaby that Thrall was teaching. In Cata he was an honorable Warchief, even killing generals who made the Horde look dishonorable. Then we had the shitshow otherwise known as MoP which just destroyed the character they put time into because they needed a bad guy and played off the "you're just like your father, easily corrupted".

[Mehrunes]

THE ALLAINCE WAS WINNING?

my fucking sides

They summoned all the Lords of the Burning Legion Except Kil'jaeden and you're winning?

You were fucked the moment they all arrived. You are aware the entire broken shore event was an ambush setup by the legion to destroy the factions because dreadlords had already infiltrated and taken over Stormwinds intelligence agency. Mathias Shaw is Detheroc balnazzar's Brother.

And yet Varian said the battle is theirs before the horn was sound. Because paying attention to context of what you're replying to or chronology of events is too hard I guess. Reading, how does it work? Unless you want to "confirm" that the gunship was coming in for an evac from the get go, be my guest. Also, who is the "you" here? Because last I checked I'm not the Alliance.

[anaxie]

And yet Varian said the battle is theirs before the horn was sound. Because paying attention to context of what you're replying to or chronology of events is too hard I guess. Reading, how does it work? Unless you want to "confirm" that the gunship was coming in for an evac from the get go, be my guest. Also, who is the "you" here? Because last I checked I'm not the Alliance.

The battle is ours!

Tell me which leaders of the Legion were dead when he claimed this.

Lets see after the Broken shore..... nope! All the Leaders are still alive. Well god damn thats not really close is it?

Like seriously lets not list the 20+ legion Lords. Lets list one of them that Gul'Dan summoned.

Ticondrius the Darkener. Lord of the Dreadlords and right hand to Kil'jaeden. Who is going to kill Ticondrius?

He didn't summon no name Legion lords. He summoned the literal LORDS of the Legion. The only one that didn't arrive was Kil'jaeden which is likely what is attempting to be accomplished at the Nightwell in the Surumar Raid using Illidans body and it's magical enegy as a conduit with the well.

secondly you never would of won anyhow. You would have all died. The Broken shore was a Legion ambush. Detheroc made sure Varian lead everyone right into it. By using the oldest trick in the Legions book. Subterfuge and manipulation.

So go ahead and thank Sylvanas that some of the armies and their leaders and champions escaped the ambush to return again in full force more prepared. She was the only one that saw the battle was lost and called it like it was while the alliance below was blinded and deluded while Gul'Dan toyed with them and the Horde above were wading through a slaughter and river of their own blood.

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That's far from true. In Wrath he was an arrogant crybaby that Thrall was teaching. In Cata he was an honorable Warchief, even killing generals who made the Horde look dishonorable. Then we had the shitshow otherwise known as MoP which just destroyed the character they put time into because they needed a bad guy and played off the "you're just like your father, easily corrupted".

How was Garrosh "honorable" in Cata? STONETALON?
Wasn't Stonetalon justa short while after her killed Cairn? Poision or otherwise the Old Leader and Founder of the Horde with Thrall said he was UNFIT. So not a good start.
Vol'jin threatened
Sylvanas called a bitch and told to throw her people at gilneas like cannon fodder.

Dat fucking honor yo. I'm still trying to find it Garrosh never had an ounce.

Your Going to believe Garrosh idindonuffin Hellscream or the utterly bewildered General that is like. WE WERE FOLLOWING YOUR ORDERS! that he quickly threw off a cliff to Silence. It's pretty obvious what happened if you know Garrosh's character and don't get pulled along like your a sheep with no previous experience with his character, hate, backstabbing, and incompetence.

What the fuck was the bomb for if not to blow the hell out of whatever Garrosh deemed a target.

Honestly now he did nothing honorable in cata. It was a war of assfuckery and incompetent generals on his behalf hurp durping his agenda.

[Archmage Khadgar]

I'm okay with it, excited to see what happens next. Just wish they had killed Vol'jin off differently.

[Dch48]

My Forsaken Warlock is overjoyed. He'd be smiling if his face muscles still worked.

[Cheerbleeder]

Lots of people are happy. Sylvanas has a large fan base.

You bet you. About time we get some of that juicy Forsaken Lore going (So much potential.)

Im looking forward to hanging my trophy collection of skulls and boots from all the murders Ive committed lately down in the streets of Brill.