DH lack self sustain?

[AboikoS]

Wut fury lacking self heal? Bloodthirst + enraged regeneration is quite strong.

Fury self heals got nerfed and they're not really that strong anymore. A little bit overnerfed imo. but well its not up to me to jugde blizzards actions...

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

I just wish Havoc had an on-demand Heal that wasn't tied to meta.

maybe just give an orb if we hit chaos strike with full fury, that'd be enough for me. i dont need full health, just need enough to survive that next big demon smashy thing in 30 seconds.....BECAUSE IM NOT GONNA CATCH A HEAL BEFORE THEN...fuggin healers

[Raiju]

Thats what will separate boys from men when it comes to DH being a main in Legion. It has one of the biggest trade offs in game: Extreme mobility vs almost non existence defense mechanisms.

I'm guessing you've only ever played tanky classes

It's self healing is lacking without the demonic build, but it has VERY strong defensives between blur/instincts and a little cherry for darkness.

[DeuZWw]

Only played pre-launch.
But i played a bit into Arenas 2x2 and 3x3. The thing is, you have Blur which is pretty strong and darkness. Those are if you wish to stay into range. If it's on CD or something, you just felrush twice away and out of LoS. can also use your "Disengage"(Actually forgot the name of the skill lol). If you got a Healer, then you can pretty much get in and out of combat for healing and avoid death in general.

i could be wrong, but from what i see if you wanna main a DH you can't play it like its a warrior or Rogue, you have to Hit hard and know when to get away to get heals or avoid a big incoming of damage(likely if you see the warrior becoming a Gigantic bronze statue or something like that). Just use your mobility to avoid gettin the hard hits.

But of course, thats just in theory. it's much Harder to get it done when everything is happening so fast into PvP.

For PvE, lack of self-healing isn't important. Blur and Darkness with high mobility is more than enough to stay alive until you get a heal. Just be careful with Felrushs and alike, sometimes you can felrush yourself into the front of a incoming train and die.

[DeuZWw]

Thats my understanding from what I ve played so far. DH has extremely good mobility its very very fun to play if you like being here and there and everywhere, some nice burst and the basic defensives are ok but (and this is when it gets interesting):

- Resetting as a DH is difficult and will mainly rely on pillars
- Survival vs ranged is probably better if you stay on the ranged and apply as much pressure as possible. I would think kiting = free kill
- Toe to toe fighting outside CDs vs other melee feels very squishy atm (squishier than rogue without evasion)

Ofc this is subject to all talents etc missing and obviously my overall feel is based on a few hours of gameplay and a rough comparison with what rogue feels like.

I ll say it again DH is an extremely potent class but in the end (and this is good) its not a rogue or an anti-rogue. Its a distinct class which I dare say will turn a lot of tables in pvp (and I guess in pve as well).

I Agree. It is difficult to reset with DH, however the doublejump can be really strong on the Sewer for instance. Still hard to compete with Charge and alike. However you have an extra movespeed from mastery that actually helps against Melee attackers.

Against Ranged i didn't had that much problems actually, since Legion all Casters have to stand still to actually cast, and we have a good interrupt. However, Hunters are still hard to kill. But yes, High pressure is a thing with DH. You also have to watch out for using Eye Beam after a Stun because of interrupts and alike.

Toe to Toe almost everytime i find myself needing to felrush away for a Heal that sometimes will never come due to lack of self healing. But in some scenários Fel-Rush even helps me to avoid damage while dealing some damage. Do not underestime using felrush in the face of your opponent, it does some good damage and get you away enough to avoid any kind of punishment.

Anyway, i totally agree with you. and i'm actually surprised that after all those classes Blizzard came up with a distinct class. i expected a Stealthless rogue that played like a Fury Warrior with Warlock Magic. And while it is somehow exactly that, it's different enough from each one of those classes that wouldn't be fair to compare. it will change PvP ALOT(if you still haven't, go check the PvP Talents. There's a Anti-Melee one that makes you actually fly. That looks awesome.)

In PvE, i don't see any big change of scenario. But Darkness is a Strong defensive cooldown for the raid i guess.

[lexonio]

Did anyone test their Demonic sustain in PvP, BGs and such?

[Deleted]

It'll be better once we get Legion unlocked and get our Artifact weapons & artifact talents.

[Deleted]

It'll be better once we get Legion unlocked and get our Artifact weapons & artifact talents.

And skins. Gotta look good to play good baby.

[Deleted]

And skins. Gotta look good to play good baby.

Indeed. Gotta find those hidden and mysterious artifact skins..

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

If you like the overall playstyle then stick with it, the prepatch is always a bonanza of hyperbole and opinions.

You may have forgotten the Cataclysm Prepatch when Holy paladins were top DPS in ICC, or the WotLK prepatch when the zombie plague trolled 90% of azerothians.

What a time to be alive.

[Zyky]

Idk, I don't know why people are saying its fine. They have nothing and need to rely on other people. I can't say how many times I need to heal myself in heroics or lfr, sometimes it happens in mythics(not nearly as often, but it still happens). Every other class has some kind of heal or absorb that doesn't require the death of an enemy target. Hell I would have settled for some kind of fel bandage with a 3 second channel that recovers 30% or something.

[Deleted]

Indeed. Gotta find those hidden and mysterious artifact skins..

Yep, my artefact skins bring all the DHs to the yard

- - - Updated - - -

Idk, I don't know why people are saying its fine. They have nothing and need to rely on other people. I can't say how many times I need to heal myself in heroics or lfr, sometimes it happens in mythics(not nearly as often, but it still happens). Every other class has some kind of heal or absorb that doesn't require the death of an enemy target. Hell I would have settled for some kind of fel bandage with a 3 second channel that recovers 30% or something.

I'm not sure what content you are doing, but I did the taanan dailies for Throne, and I solo'ed it with 716 ilvl as havoc. I was spikey and had to pull imps at times and kill them off to get orbs to heal me up but I never felt at danger.

[Zyky]

I'm not sure what content you are doing, but I did the taanan dailies for Throne, and I solo'ed it with 716 ilvl as havoc. I was spikey and had to pull imps at times and kill them off to get orbs to heal me up but I never felt at danger.

Did you not even read what I said? I even specifically mentioned "heroics, lfr, mythic raiding". No one cares about daily questing on a toon they specifically said they over tuned by giving them nearly a 1700 Agi boost to be on par with other classes in HFC because they didn't have access to all their talents.

[Deleted]

Did you not even read what I said? I even specifically mentioned "heroics, lfr, mythic raiding". No one cares about daily questing on a toon they specifically said they over tuned by giving them nearly a 1700 Agi boost to be on par with other classes in HFC because they didn't have access to all their talents.

Actually my first few words was taking the piss out of you for "needing" a healer in LFR and mythic dungeons when if you are a decent player, you can avoid majority of the damage. Places you shouldn't be. The rest is topic related, not meant to be directed at just yourself.

EDIT: just for the record "No one cares about *insert w/e content you mention* on a toon they specifically said they over tuned by giving them nearly a 1700 Agi boost to be on par with other classes in HFC because they didn't have access to all their talents."

[Zyky]

Actually my first few words was taking the piss out of you for dying in LFR and mythic dungeons. Places you shouldn't be. The rest is topic related, not meant to be directed at just yourself.

It doesn't matter who you direct it at, world content is a joke with the massive bonus to a raw stat. As for the other part, I haven't done lfr in a while, but I've had to heal myself a lot when it came to certain encounters like Blackhand, where the damage is apparently too difficult for the healers to heal. It isn't your place to tell me where I should and shouldn't be, if I'm bored and want to do LFR or if I see a satchel and want to do LFR I'm going to be in LFR doing LFR. I do mythic dungeons for valor, especially on my demon hunter who needs it. So "places you shouldn't be" is a shit argument as to why we got no sustain as a class.

[BlackGoldShooter]

Eye Beam counts as being in demon form, so you'll get a massive heal, nearly un-killable, every 45sec with the 100% leech talent.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter who you direct it at, world content is a joke with the massive bonus to a raw stat. As for the other part, I haven't done lfr in a while, but I've had to heal myself a lot when it came to certain encounters like Blackhand, where the damage is apparently too difficult for the healers to heal. It isn't your place to tell me where I should and shouldn't be, if I'm bored and want to do LFR or if I see a satchel and want to do LFR I'm going to be in LFR doing LFR. I do mythic dungeons for valor, especially on my demon hunter who needs it. So "places you shouldn't be" is a shit argument as to why we got no sustain as a class.

Mythic HFC is a joke. Your point? Literally all content at this stage is a joke for a DH.

[Zyky]

Mythic HFC is a joke. Your point?

Again you're talking about current content, are you really that braindead? What good goes HFC being a "joke" have to do with no sustain when it comes to Legion with new raids and new mythic dungeons?

[Deleted]

Again you're talking about current content, are you really that braindead? What good goes HFC being a "joke" have to do with no sustain when it comes to Legion with new raids and new mythic dungeons?

You mentioned current content with Blackhand.... Not me. Hell thats even easier than current.

EDIT: but instead of making fun of you, I will answer your question. Level 104 talents. Literally an entire row designed to helping us stay alive.

Current content is too easy to need it, and when we do, at legion end game, we have an entire row to help us where we need it.

[Lex Icon]

this is the first char i've got in a long time that i actually feel forced to have first aid on.. ain't that somethig?