Blizzard: PLEASE fix the pre-100 story

[Regalbeast]

Did you just say that Vanilla and BC had completely compelling quests with a completely defined plot and end point??

LOL - questing has improved 10000x since then.

[Deleted]

Did you just say that Vanilla and BC had completely compelling quests with a completely defined plot and end point??

LOL - questing has improved 10000x since then.

but but but my nostalgia gogglez!!1!

I mean, ever since Cataclysm, I actually LEVELED ALTS.

[Tridin]

Wow..now that missed the mark. It is not about posting on a random site. If OP adresses Blizzard, why not on the official Blizzard forum. Kinda where the blues tend to respond?

Maybe because I did already? Topics on the official forums don't get much traction, and little discussion. It's there, none-the-less, for blizzard to see it.

I made the same thread here for more opinions, and as others have already pointed out, blizzard devs frequent this forum from time to time. Win Win.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard said exactly this. They were originally going to continue the quest update through Outland and so on, so that the story made sense post-Cataclysm. However, the amount of time they spent recreating the 1-60 experience left the content in Cata limited (and this was the expansion that "killed" the game). So they abandoned renewing old content any longer except for a dungeon here and there. They know the timelines are screwed up and have said just imagine you are going back in time when you travel to a previous expansion. This is known.

To a completely new player who hasn't seen past Blizz PR on the subject? No, this is not known.

And for people saying "lol this is how MMOs work!" no it isn't. FFXIV does a pretty damn solid job of keeping one story consistent throughout, and has made appropriate changes to make sure the game still makes sense to a new player story-wise.

[Deleted]

Most players don't care much about lore. They don't read quests, they don't follow the plot...or if they do they handle it more like peope eating popcorn watching a movie, while you're watching a movie from david lynch and writing an essay about it.

conclusion: Wasting ressources on "fixing" lore is unnecessary.

easy solution: use the new level scaling function for quest rewards and NPC levels for old content

voilá, now you can level 1-100 on azeroth if you want

No. To make the world feel immersive, you need people in it. Spreading all over the old content maps is not what Blizzards wants us to do. It is normal for a classic MMO that gets bigger and bigger that old zones are empty. It would be nice if they would add more quests and storylines which bring you back into old zones, like with the upcoming ulduar/kharazan quests.

[Mehrunes]

It's not like Illidan or Arthas being dead is actually mentioned all that much, if at all, in EK/Kalimdor questing experience post-Cata. So not exactly confusing to new players since they aren't given that information.

[Tijuana]

I consider myself one of those ultra rare players who has stayed with the game since release in '04 mostly because of the story/lore of Warcraft in general. And most of my fondest memories from vanilla/bc/wrath all involve questing through compelling story-lines, with a clearly defined plot, and a clearly defined end point. That is now completely gone, and the story is LITERALLY all over the place.

I realize there'd be a ton of work involved, but something seriously needs to be done about the mess of a story that is the current state of leveling from 1 to 90. I feel sorry for new players who jump into the game for the very first time, and are excited to experience the massive story themselves...only to left scratching their heads constantly throughout. It's absolutely not fair to the new player.

I can't list all the atrocious loop-holes that currently exist in regards to the pre-Draenor story, but here are just a few off the top of my head:

- Players 1 to 60 level through Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms in a post-Cataclysm world. This is reflected in 80% of the quests that deal with an environmental devastation of some kind, as well as quests which signify that Illidan and Arthas are both already dead.
- At 60, players are then asked to go to Outlands, which literally causes them to go back in time, prior to the events of the Cataclysm. However, there's no direct mention of going backwards in time for the player- they're left completely hanging, where their end goal is now to kill Illidan (who from levels 1 to 60, was dead to them already).
- At 70, the adventure guide steers them to Northrend, to defeat Arthas. Again, a villain they thought was already dead when they started the game. This is also another example of going back in time WITHOUT notifying the player.
- At 80, players finally catch up to the post-Cataclysmic events they started with; this is the only time from 1 to 90 that they can actually consider themselves in the 'current' time.
- At 85, their next quest asks them to head to their faction throne room, where they're played a cinematic showcasing two leaders, who set the stage for everything in Pandaria, that are currently no longer living. Once the cinematic finishes, they can head up to the throne room to see new faction leaders other than the ones they just watched in the cinematic. They're now behind in time again without even realizing it, and Pandaria continues the trend.
- Thankfully, at 90, once players leave for Draenor and primarily stay there, they are up to speed on the storyline. But THIS introduces an entirely alternate timeline, which confuses the new player even MORE.

This doesn't even include all the problems with current story-driven dungeons/raids/etc. The leveling story experience alone is enough of a travesty that it's going to cause a new player a great deal of headache to figure out. Hell, if I didn't already know the story from start to finish thanks to playing from the beginning during vanilla, god knows I'd probably give up trying to make sense of it all.

If Blizzard PR came out and made a statement along the lines of "We realize the story is a mess, but we're not going to devote resources to fixing it" that'd be one thing...but the fact that there are points in the game where they have ATTEMPTED to make sense of the current time for the new player shows they really don't know what to do about it (Theramore destroyed vs. non-destroyed anyone?)

If there aren't going to be resources devoted to fixing this R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S mess, then I'd suggest something easier. Using the bronze dragonflight can fix everything; hell, make Chromie the original quest-giver for every damn instance where the player might need to go back in time, explain it to them fully, and have her set the stage. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. Completely ignoring that there's a problem only makes matters worse.

Please stop forgetting about the new player story experience Blizz. For some of us, it was the whole reason we're still playing now.

I was with you for the 1-60 quests being oddly situated after events that happen later. But the rest of what you are complaining about, is just content that is old. The 1-60 quests are the only ones that don't make sense. To the player, events in each xpac have not yet happened and will as they progress through the content. For example, TBC content makes perfect sense that Illidan is alive at lvl 61. When you lump that in with the complaints about 1-60, you are in essence saying each xpac must be rewritten after the new one comes out, which would make less sense than what we currently have. By this logic, vanilla content was equally outdated when TBC came out, yet you would no doubt prefer us to be restored to the original 1-60 content.

I just don't think you thought this through very well, when you moved past the valid compliant about the 1-60 content.

I would also add that, for a new player, if you don't know what the world was like pre-cata, what sense do all the quests about things changing make? It's like they wrote the content with the idea that the questing player would know what the old content looked like. That seems really short sighted.

[Kralljin]

They should simply apply the scale tech from Broken Isles on the rest of the world.

That way you can simply stay on Kalimdor / EK until you hit 80, do Cata Content, do MoP Content, then WoD.

Northrend / Outland is optional, if you want, you can go there.


As for the Leader issue, i think it's still alright on the Alliance side, however on the Horde side things are just fucked up, you start off with Garrosh, then go back to Thrall, then go back to Garrosh, then Vol'jin moves in and you end up with Sylvanas.

[Deleted]

It's confusing but I believe it's better using time for new story rather than fixing old stuff that gets irrelevant later in the game.

[Tridin]

I was with you for the 1-60 quests being oddly situated after events that happen later. But the rest of what you are complaining about, is just content that is old. The 1-60 quests are the only ones that don't make sense. To the player, events in each xpac have not yet happened and will as they progress through the content. For example, TBC content makes perfect sense that Illidan is alive at lvl 61. When you lump that in with the complaints about 1-60, you are in essence saying each xpac must be rewritten after the new one comes out, which would make less sense than what we currently have. By this logic, vanilla content was equally outdated when TBC came out, yet you would no doubt prefer us to be restored to the original 1-60 content.

I just don't think you thought this through very well, when you moved past the valid compliant about the 1-60 content.

I would also add that, for a new player, if you don't know what the world was like pre-cata, what sense do all the quests about things changing make? It's like they wrote the content with the idea that the questing player would know what the old content looked like. That seems really short sighted.

Seriously? 1 through 60 are set after Illidan and Arthas are both dead and the events that took place in Outlands and Northrend have already happened. The player then has to go back in time for each 60-70 and 70-80 leveling period. Then it happens all over again when they hit 85, and this doesn't even factor in the current legion invasions taking place for lower levels. This isn't just an example of needing to update older expansions, it's tying in the story so it actually makes a damn lick of sense. And no, your example of vanilla content being outdated when TBC came out and the preference for us 'to be restored to the original 1-60 content' doesn't even make sense in the same context of what I'm talking about. I don't think you thoroughly read or understood the OP.

[Deleted]

I consider myself one of those ultra rare players who has stayed with the game since release in '04 mostly because of the story/lore of Warcraft in general. And most of my fondest memories from vanilla/bc/wrath all involve questing through compelling story-lines, with a clearly defined plot, and a clearly defined end point. That is now completely gone, and the story is LITERALLY all over the place.

I realize there'd be a ton of work involved, but something seriously needs to be done about the mess of a story that is the current state of leveling from 1 to 90. I feel sorry for new players who jump into the game for the very first time, and are excited to experience the massive story themselves...only to left scratching their heads constantly throughout. It's absolutely not fair to the new player.

I can't list all the atrocious loop-holes that currently exist in regards to the pre-Draenor story, but here are just a few off the top of my head:

- Players 1 to 60 level through Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms in a post-Cataclysm world. This is reflected in 80% of the quests that deal with an environmental devastation of some kind, as well as quests which signify that Illidan and Arthas are both already dead.
- At 60, players are then asked to go to Outlands, which literally causes them to go back in time, prior to the events of the Cataclysm. However, there's no direct mention of going backwards in time for the player- they're left completely hanging, where their end goal is now to kill Illidan (who from levels 1 to 60, was dead to them already).
- At 70, the adventure guide steers them to Northrend, to defeat Arthas. Again, a villain they thought was already dead when they started the game. This is also another example of going back in time WITHOUT notifying the player.
- At 80, players finally catch up to the post-Cataclysmic events they started with; this is the only time from 1 to 90 that they can actually consider themselves in the 'current' time.
- At 85, their next quest asks them to head to their faction throne room, where they're played a cinematic showcasing two leaders, who set the stage for everything in Pandaria, that are currently no longer living. Once the cinematic finishes, they can head up to the throne room to see new faction leaders other than the ones they just watched in the cinematic. They're now behind in time again without even realizing it, and Pandaria continues the trend.
- Thankfully, at 90, once players leave for Draenor and primarily stay there, they are up to speed on the storyline. But THIS introduces an entirely alternate timeline, which confuses the new player even MORE.

This doesn't even include all the problems with current story-driven dungeons/raids/etc. The leveling story experience alone is enough of a travesty that it's going to cause a new player a great deal of headache to figure out. Hell, if I didn't already know the story from start to finish thanks to playing from the beginning during vanilla, god knows I'd probably give up trying to make sense of it all.

If Blizzard PR came out and made a statement along the lines of "We realize the story is a mess, but we're not going to devote resources to fixing it" that'd be one thing...but the fact that there are points in the game where they have ATTEMPTED to make sense of the current time for the new player shows they really don't know what to do about it (Theramore destroyed vs. non-destroyed anyone?)

If there aren't going to be resources devoted to fixing this R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S mess, then I'd suggest something easier. Using the bronze dragonflight can fix everything; hell, make Chromie the original quest-giver for every damn instance where the player might need to go back in time, explain it to them fully, and have her set the stage. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. Completely ignoring that there's a problem only makes matters worse.

Please stop forgetting about the new player story experience Blizz. For some of us, it was the whole reason we're still playing now.

You seem to have no freaking clue of how much work it would be to change all that content to be "current".
The old content needs to be old content, because it's great for telling the story that's happened so far.

[Tridin]

You seem to have no freaking clue of how much work it would be to change all that content to be "current".
The old content needs to be old content, because it's great for telling the story that's happened so far.

I mentioned that in the OP. Thanks for reading.

Try leveling a new character and actually follow the story from start to finish. Then pretend you've never played the game before. It's not 'great for telling the story' by ANY means.

[awbaker]

New players coming in would buy legion and start at 100, making *a little* more sense.

Kinda.

[Flurryfang]

Well... Tbh, DKs should start their adventure with Northrend. That would be the logical thing. "Ohh, you just got betrayed by the LK? Lets go kill him!" instead of "ohh, you just got betrayed by the LK? Well, you should proberly first go deal with this demon guy, which you know nothing about" xD

[bufferunderrun]

the problem is mainly cataclysm it had done a world wide change that is absolutely impossible to fix unless blizzard go back and phase everything every xpack; unfortunately there is no solution that don't involve blizzard dedicating huge resources to fix, one would be to slowly phase a zone each patch until everything is brought up to date using scenarios to end a questline.
In those day i was doing the invasion and from the stand point of my lvl 100 character don't make absolute sense that barrens are still invaded by garrosh true horde, or hillsbrad still a mess or sentinel hill not being completed etc.

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I was with you for the 1-60 quests being oddly situated after events that happen later. But the rest of what you are complaining about, is just content that is old. The 1-60 quests are the only ones that don't make sense. To the player, events in each xpac have not yet happened and will as they progress through the content. For example, TBC content makes perfect sense that Illidan is alive at lvl 61. When you lump that in with the complaints about 1-60, you are in essence saying each xpac must be rewritten after the new one comes out, which would make less sense than what we currently have. By this logic, vanilla content was equally outdated when TBC came out, yet you would no doubt prefer us to be restored to the original 1-60 content.

I just don't think you thought this through very well, when you moved past the valid compliant about the 1-60 content.

I would also add that, for a new player, if you don't know what the world was like pre-cata, what sense do all the quests about things changing make? It's like they wrote the content with the idea that the questing player would know what the old content looked like. That seems really short sighted.

it still don't make sense with a level 100 character who has done this content when the game send you back in those zone and you feel you are back in time

[Traku]

The real problem is that Blizzard took an irreversible path from expansion to expansion. It is not that you are playing a game that they are unwilling to fix. It is that you are playing a game that has seen diminished returns after screwing it up so bad. Now that the money is not available to provide a token fix it will never be fixed. The only possible way they could fix this problem is by increasing subscribers so that they can afford to fix their game. Now that their mistakes have caught up to them they will not be able to live up to your expectations. I'm sorry, fellow Vanilla player... If you cannot wait out in hope, I must recommend for you to move on.

[Zandalariprelate]

Nice troll post

[Ethenil]

To help fix this somewhat, I think Blizz should have done this:

For Alliance: Have Varian appear as king in Stormwind until the Battle of the Broken Shore scenario. Then replace him with Anduin.

For Horde (oh boy): Have Garrosh be present in Orgrimmar until level 90, and then replace him with Vol'jin. After the Battle of the Broken Shore, correctly show Sylvanas as Warchief and Saurfang as leader of the orcs. (this is the best they could realistically do, even though Thrall would be warchief while leveling in Outland and Northrend).

[Soeroah]

I just wish they'd use phasing to make players see the NPCs they are meant to see during the expansion. They've improved it to the point the entire city doesn't need to be phased anymore, just the NPC and the dialogue text, so I don't see a problem with having people see Thrall as Warchief from level 1-80, Garrosh until level 90, Vol'jin until level 100 and Sylvanas from level 100 to whenever.

[Deleted]

To help fix this somewhat, I think Blizz should have done this:

For Alliance: Have Varian appear as king in Stormwind until the Battle of the Broken Shore scenario. Then replace him with Anduin.

For Horde (oh boy): Have Garrosh be present in Orgrimmar until level 90, and then replace him with Vol'jin. After the Battle of the Broken Shore, correctly show Sylvanas as Warchief and Saurfang as leader of the orcs. (this is the best they could realistically do, even though Thrall would be warchief while leveling in Outland and Northrend).

Oh this goes without saying but the problem is, those aren't the only issues.

[bufferunderrun]

To help fix this somewhat, I think Blizz should have done this:

For Alliance: Have Varian appear as king in Stormwind until the Battle of the Broken Shore scenario. Then replace him with Anduin.

For Horde (oh boy): Have Garrosh be present in Orgrimmar until level 90, and then replace him with Vol'jin. After the Battle of the Broken Shore, correctly show Sylvanas as Warchief and Saurfang as leader of the orcs. (this is the best they could realistically do, even though Thrall would be warchief while leveling in Outland and Northrend).

the problem isn't only the different leader but the entire world if you go back with a lvl 100 character you are like in a frozen time bubble in which any of the great fight you had done have 0 result in the outside world, for example we killed dw and twilight hammer are still around in the barren garrosh horde is still doing what they were doing before siege of orgrimmar.
This really worsen the gaming experience when you go back for any reason.