Freedom vs Security

[Radeghost]

I guess that's my question. Why does it -matter-? I guess the other question is, do you worry about X or Y agency tapping your phone? Lets say they are. So what?

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I wouldn't either. But at the end of the day... Have you actually done anything illegal? Or something that would warrant action? If not, why does it matter?

This is really scary. You, people, really don't care for your privacy, for your freedom. Damn. When you're gonna lose it, you'll miss it. A lot.

[Statix]

Americans are obsessed with freedom. Many believe that owning guns in part of their freedom. Exactly this is what makes the US such a dangerous place. Weekly shootings. Police being bashed for doing their job.

Americans are obsessed with their privacy. I couldn't care less if the government needs to tap into my phone calls and such to ensure my country's safety. I don't want a Paris or 9/11 in my country. Security > privacy/freedom.

As for other countries, I don't see them worry about it so much. All of Brussels was completely shut down because of a credible terrorist threat. Something like that would never go well in a country such as the US. And that's simply because Americans wouldn't be free at that point. The government tells them to stay indoors and they can't handle that. Their privacy and freedom is worth more to them then the safety of their family and friends.

Especially these days, it's quite ironic so many people fear their privacy is being violated when they share so much of their personal life on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter and all that crap. I know more about certain people through Social Media than I do about my own family.

[Seranthor]

Americans are obsessed with freedom. Many believe that owning guns in part of their freedom. Exactly this is what makes the US such a dangerous place. Weekly shootings. Police being bashed for doing their job.

Americans are obsessed with their privacy. I couldn't care less if the government needs to tap into my phone calls and such to ensure my country's safety. I don't want a Paris or 9/11 in my country. Security > privacy/freedom.

As for other countries, I don't see them worry about it so much. All of Brussels was completely shut down because of a credible terrorist threat. Something like that would never go well in a country such as the US. And that's simply because Americans wouldn't be free at that point. The government tells them to stay indoors and they can't handle that. Their privacy and freedom is worth more to them then the safety of their family and friends.

Especially these days, it's quite ironic so many people fear their privacy is being violated when they share so much of their personal life on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter and all that crap. I know more about certain people through Social Media than I do about my own family.

And you probably know next to nothing about those that are obsessed with their privacy. Facebook/Instagram/Twitter and the other social media platforms are a treasure trove of data for anyone and everyone that wants to find something on most folks. Chances are slim however, that you'll find out much useful or actionable information about the ghosts (those that are real privacy junkies).

[Statix]

And you probably know next to nothing about those that are obsessed with their privacy. Facebook/Instagram/Twitter and the other social media platforms are a treasure trove of data for anyone and everyone that wants to find something on most folks. Chances are slim however, that you'll find out much useful or actionable information about the ghosts (those that are real privacy junkies).

But come on, the ghosts? Really? Why would you have to be obsessed with your privacy? I don't get it. Who gives a shit if the goverment checks your browser history? Your porn? Everyone looks up porn. What else?

If they do, they're looking at millions of people. In that vast amount of people, your privacy is still basically intact, because they will not single you out. If you have to undergo a strip search, yes, you will be completely exposed, but that doesn't matter to the people doing the search. You're just another face they'll forget once you exit the room.

[Deleted]

But come on, the ghosts? Really? Why would you have to be obsessed with your privacy? I don't get it. Who gives a shit if the goverment checks your browser history? Your porn? Everyone looks up porn. What else?

If they do, they're looking at millions of people. In that vast amount of people, your privacy is still basically intact, because they will not single you out. If you have to undergo a strip search, yes, you will be completely exposed, but that doesn't matter to the people doing the search. You're just another face they'll forget once you exit the room.

The problem doesn't lie in the fact that the government has information, it is about what they are allowed to do with said information.

And please explain to me what exactly it is of the governments business what i say to my friends on the phone? Apart from the obvious friendly banter that could be easily mistaken for something else, it is a gigantic waste of money. In order to keep tabs on everything they will have to spend billions, and for what exactly? So they can screw over some poor guy on welfare that mowed the lawn for his elderly neighbour? Fuck that, i'd much rather have them spend the money on education, infrastructure or you know, something that is actually useful.

[Macaquerie]

But come on, the ghosts? Really? Why would you have to be obsessed with your privacy? I don't get it. Who gives a shit if the goverment checks your browser history? Your porn? Everyone looks up porn. What else?

If they do, they're looking at millions of people. In that vast amount of people, your privacy is still basically intact, because they will not single you out. If you have to undergo a strip search, yes, you will be completely exposed, but that doesn't matter to the people doing the search. You're just another face they'll forget once you exit the room.

Most people would probably admit that they watched porn if you asked them, but I doubt too many would want you looking over their shoulder while they watched it. To some degree there is a bit of egotism here, that massive corporations or even the federal government would expend time and effort tracking your day to day life as if it was something of keen interest to everyone else, but you can't really blame people for a bit of paranoia there.

[Puri]

What is the reason for needing secure communication if you A) Aren't doing anything illegal, and B) Don't really have anything to hide from non-criminal entities?

That's the wrong question. The real question is: Why should the government or other people be able to read my communication if I am not doing something illegal? Now you might have nothing to hide, but perhaps that changes. Turkey also was a fairly free and democratic country, now they have surveillance in place that makes plotting against the government (and maybe even doing now illegal things) fairly hard.

Right now they say it's to fight terrorism. But it only is a small step to use it to scan for other things, like simple insults to the government. This is no pessimistic view, buit that's what's already happening in several countries.

As you said, it's a question of freedom versus security.

[Ryme]

What is the reason for needing secure communication if you A) Aren't doing anything illegal, and B) Don't really have anything to hide from non-criminal entities?

Because I'd rather have options against anything close to what goes on in China, for example. I also don't want to live in a world where everyone is assumed potentially guilty.

[Deleted]

It's better to have freedom/privacy and not need it than to need it and not have it

Governments have a pretty terrible track record when it comes to using absolute power with any kind of restraint, ethics or decency

[Thoughtful Trolli]

One of the big reasons it might be an issue is because of entrepreneurship of identity.

Technically, you don't own your own body, especially since the world's resources went into making you. Where does it say you own your own body? It doesn't. It's just much more convenient to force you to take care of yourself than to hook you up.

Aside from that though, groups of people are allowed to protect themselves from invasions of privacy through many options. Individuals have no options though, other than literally not existing. This means that removal of privacy will only harm individuals, and the harassment of those people has no regulations, making it just as diverse as the reasons for trying to eliminate privacy.

If you're asking for a handful of those diverse reasons as a sample: Your picture, any of them, can be used in conjunction with anything, including ass pimple cream advertisements and even just blatant shitposting, as well as used by criminals to accuse you of committing crimes by posting your picture with an actual criminal incident without convictions (Like when a certain famous person was accused of being the zodiac killer.) Anything you create including art can be taken and used the same way, plagiarized beyond comprehension. The people doing these things cannot be revealed to you because you have no rights to violate their privacy even though there's a blanket agreement that there is no privacy. That's three reasons.

More: Lack of privacy means you're not able to share information with anyone about anything in any context without expecting it to be viewed. You won't even be able to e-mail your SS number to a loved one's private account at that rate. People can also use your information to disturb the peace without actually committing a crime, for example by sharing non-criminal data with people who still abhor and demonize the data in question for even existing in someone's life. And on top of all that, you're not forbidden from sharing anyone else's private information in any way whatsoever because there's no privacy, so a massive number of deliberate harassment might occur between people who've obtained control over information that morally belongs only to the origin in regards to sharing rights.

It's a lot of work to think up all the supposed reasons, so I guess when it comes to collecting the case studies, it's more appropriate for the creator of the denials to debate and disqualify each example on a case by case basis rather than ask the general commonwealth to come up with examples of defense of the right to privacy. Furthermore, it would be unethical and atrocious if the lack of case studies presented by the defense was also determined, arbitrarily by original insistence, a perfect reason to follow through with a widely unpopular proposition.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't either. But at the end of the day... Have you actually done anything illegal? Or something that would warrant action? If not, why does it matter?

Tell me everything about you, including all of your insecurities, fears, touchy secrets and weak points. What's wrong? You dont have anything to hide do you?
That's why privacy matters.

[May90]

Tell me everything about you, including all of your insecurities, fears, touchy secrets and weak points. What's wrong? You dont have anything to hide do you?
That's why privacy matters.

Do you represent the government?

[Deleted]

Do you represent the government?

Maybe? You never know who's on the other side of the internet. That's why it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Berengil]

Americans are obsessed with freedom. Many believe that owning guns in part of their freedom. Exactly this is what makes the US such a dangerous place. Weekly shootings. Police being bashed for doing their job.

Americans are obsessed with their privacy. I couldn't care less if the government needs to tap into my phone calls and such to ensure my country's safety. I don't want a Paris or 9/11 in my country. Security > privacy/freedom.
.

The bolded and underlined is disgusting, and 1 example of how ready many are to bow before a fear-mongering central government.

" We reject as false the choice between our liberties and our security." --- President Barack Obama in his 1st inaugural address

He's done or authorized some shady things, but compared to much of the rest of the world, he's practically an anarchist.

[Risale]

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin

[Seranthor]

But come on, the ghosts? Really? Why would you have to be obsessed with your privacy? I don't get it. Who gives a shit if the goverment checks your browser history? Your porn? Everyone looks up porn. What else?

If they do, they're looking at millions of people. In that vast amount of people, your privacy is still basically intact, because they will not single you out. If you have to undergo a strip search, yes, you will be completely exposed, but that doesn't matter to the people doing the search. You're just another face they'll forget once you exit the room.

the answer is truly simple... its none of their fucking business.

[Logwyn]

Declaring Independence is now a bad thing? Also, how did the US steal all this other land?

I still want to know what land the US stole from France?

I think the revisionist history now is if you fight a war and loose land and etc. The land and etc. is now stolen...

[Underverse]

The bolded and underlined is disgusting, and 1 example of how ready many are to bow before a fear-mongering central government.

" We reject as false the choice between our liberties and our security." --- President Barack Obama in his 1st inaugural address

He's done or authorized some shady things, but compared to much of the rest of the world, he's practically an anarchist.

Why is it disgusting? You say this, but then you don't provide any sort of reasoning.

It seems to me that the only risk of giving up privacy for security is in false accusations of crimes/accidental incrimination. But I'm not sure why people think that this will be a significant problem, as one goes from less information to more.

[Zecora]

Because I have a right to privacy, and my communications are of no concern to the government. I don't need, nor want, Big Brother keeping tabs on me.

This sums it up pretty perfectly. People have a right to privacy, and protecting your rights matters if you want to keep 'em.

[Theodarzna]

The problem with Security is that it has within it a logic that is TOTALIZING logic. That is there is no limits to the desire for security. How much security is enough security? Is there a line at which you will actually feel safe enough?

Safety and Security is an insatiable goal, at no point are you actually done being secure.