Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Tehr]

Later patches, it got hotfixed. Ever since that point, it's followed that you'd need the shield up before leech and damage boost take place.

That's the most retarded thing I've heard in a while. GG Blizzard.

[Resurgo]

That's the most retarded thing I've heard in a while. GG Blizzard.

Yeah, was pretty neat to see from the beta feedback at first. Don't recall who first realized it got hotfixed later though, maybe Tyvi?

[Zemask]

New hotfixes (source : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...ixes-august-16)

For us :
- Bone Shield now reduces damage taken by 16% (was 20%).
- Tremble Before Me's chance to fear now ramps up slightly slower.
- Red Thirst now reduces Vampiric Blood's cooldown by 1 second per 6 Runic Power spent (was 2 seconds per 20).
- Heart Strike damage reduced by 20%, but PvP mult removed (net increase of 7% in PvP).

IMO, weird changes, I don't know why they keep nerfing Heart Strike every time, it doesn't deal that much damage.
Little nerf to bone shield as well, 4% less reduction sucks but we'll live with it.

I'm a bit confused about Red Thirst's change ; they say it was 2 sec/20 RP but I'm pretty sure it was 2 sec/10 RP (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=205723/red-thirst).
Let's imagine Blizzard doesn't know their spells or the guy who wrote the hotfixes pressed the wrong button : that's a little nerf in this case, you go from 2sec for 10 RP to 2 sec for 12 RP, but since we use our RP for either DS either Bonestorm, we spend round numbers so the additive 2 RP is a weird change.

[redfella]

The HS nerf is weird indeed, It's BB that is doing a ton of dmg.

[Unholyground]

I almost leveled my artifact to full for blood, and I can tell you it is soooo much more amazing once you get the traits, EVERY class is balanced around a full artifact weapon now, so if you are under performing it is intended.

[Philondra]

Blizzard is completely missing the point with the Red Thirst nerf. The talent is incredibly strong, yes, but they could nerf it all the way down to "Red Thirst now reduces Vampiric Blood's cooldown by 1 per 30 Runic Power spent" and I would STILL take it over Tombstone or Mark of Blood. That's how terrible those other two talents are.

[Jaestrasz]

I don't know why they keep nerfing Heart Strike every time, it doesn't deal that much damage.

Probably because Bloodfeast + Veinrender artifact traits were kind of strong in aoe situations.

I'm a bit confused about Red Thirst's change ; they say it was 2 sec/20 RP but I'm pretty sure it was 2 sec/10 RP

It was 2 sec/10 RP as you said.

[Saybel]

lel aoe nerfs jk blood boil does everything
cmon blizz, are you even trying?

[Zemask]

Probably because Bloodfeast + Veinrender artifact traits were kind of strong in aoe situations.

Well, even before the present nerf for Heartstrike, Bloodfeast was probably the worst talent in the tree considering how the healing output was ridiculous. (And concerning veinrender, well the numbers aren't high either, you just take it to go to Umbiculus Eternus). Also HS has a cap of 5 targets while inside your DnD, and the radius of cleave is kinda low, it's not like it was the godlike aoe.

And as it was said before, Blood Boil is doing all the damage, it's ridiculous. They better nerf BB (even if BB won't seem as OP with the artifact considering it hasn't any trait in tree : other spells get buffed while BB remains unchanged) and up heartstrike so it'd up our single target DPS and our aoe dps as well (to compensate an eventual BB nerf), an aoe dps which is, once again, limited by your DnD and the radius of the cleave = not broken and would make talents like Bloodfeast actually a bit better.

Blizzard is completely missing the point with the Red Thirst nerf. The talent is incredibly strong, yes, but they could nerf it all the way down to "Red Thirst now reduces Vampiric Blood's cooldown by 1 per 30 Runic Power spent" and I would STILL take it over Tombstone or Mark of Blood. That's how terrible those other two talents are.

Correct, it's a pity that half of BDK's talents are pure shit, the talent tree is poorly designed compared to (most ?) other classes.
Some talents need buffs (like bloodworms or mark of blood) while some others need to be removed/completely reworked (like Soulgorge or Tombstone).

[Deleted]

Why are people so hung up about getting BB nerfed? BB is the snap threat tool, one that is completely decoupled from your active mitigation (Consumption, Bonestorm, Death Strike via RP gen) and not reliant on the tiny Heart Strike cleave or the DnD CD.

It has to be really good or you will be miserable trying to pick up adds while you set up your rotation and so that you can save all those abilities mentioned above for survival instead of having to use them to pick up adds (though of course you can do both but having the choice is important).

And FWIW, the declared niche for Blood is supposed to be burst AoE damage at the cost of shit mobility and weaker than before snares and CC immunities. So have fun with it. (Yes, that is the actual intent and no, I am afraid I can't give you the source. And as always, things can change.)

[Deleted]

Heart Strike damage reduced by 20%, but PvP mult removed (net increase of 7% in PvP).[/COLOR]

What is the "but PvP mult removed" mult????

[Hashcrypt]

Soooo...why the nerfs? Why can't DK's just be the "high dps" tank? Jesus Christ.

[Solial]

What is the "but PvP mult removed" mult????

Abilities are scaled differently in pvp. It did less damage in pvp. They removed the multiplier (like 75% or something) so instead of doing going from 100 -> 75, it goes from 75 -> 80.

[Zemask]

Why are people so hung up about getting BB nerfed? BB is the snap threat tool, one that is completely decoupled from your active mitigation (Consumption, Bonestorm, Death Strike via RP gen) and not reliant on the tiny Heart Strike cleave or the DnD CD.

It has to be really good or you will be miserable trying to pick up adds while you set up your rotation and so that you can save all those abilities mentioned above for survival instead of having to use them to pick up adds (though of course you can do both but having the choice is important).

And FWIW, the declared niche for Blood is supposed to be burst AoE damage at the cost of shit mobility and weaker than before snares and CC immunities. So have fun with it. (Yes, that is the actual intent and no, I am afraid I can't give you the source. And as always, things can change.)

In fact, IDM BB's damage being high, I personally like dealing tons of damages with my tank, the thing is there's a huge gap between BB's damage and damage of our other spells (BB being generally our 2nd source of DPS on mono target).
I agree with you : BB's damage was made to hold aggro since we can't spam it anymore so it has to be strong to be able to pick up adds.
I'm just saying, other ways could have been possible to still hold aggro with less dmg like 3 charges or a lower baseline cd or "generates high threat" like some other tanks have.
Anyway my point was : they keep nerfing HS while it's far from being overpowered.

What is the "but PvP mult removed" mult????

HS dealt less damage in PVP : like 75% of its PVE damage (I'm giving a random number for example purpose) ; they removed the "nerf in pvp only" so baseline HS got nerfed but now deals 100% of its damage in PVP as well for a result of 7% increased damage in PVP compared to what it was before the hotfix.
Edit : Solial was faster.

[Lycanoth]

Why are people so hung up about getting BB nerfed? BB is the snap threat tool, one that is completely decoupled from your active mitigation (Consumption, Bonestorm, Death Strike via RP gen) and not reliant on the tiny Heart Strike cleave or the DnD CD.

It has to be really good or you will be miserable trying to pick up adds while you set up your rotation and so that you can save all those abilities mentioned above for survival instead of having to use them to pick up adds (though of course you can do both but having the choice is important).

And FWIW, the declared niche for Blood is supposed to be burst AoE damage at the cost of shit mobility and weaker than before snares and CC immunities. So have fun with it. (Yes, that is the actual intent and no, I am afraid I can't give you the source. And as always, things can change.)

My thoughts exactly. If they do end up nerfing blood boil with no major compensation elsewhere it is going to make things incredibly unfun and terrible with multi add aggro.

As for todays hotfix the only thing I am really annoyed with is the Red Thirst nerf. Boneshield nerf is meh and Heartstrike already deals no damage outside of consistent 3-5 target cleave where the damage is okay-ish so very little loss there.

It does suck they keep nerfing our damage because at this point I feel all Blood has left is damage and self healing compared to most of the other tanks.

[Nnyco]

heart strike is like a crippled kid that gets punched by blizzard in the face over and over again

[mrmsix6]

heart strike is like a crippled kid that gets punched by blizzard in the face over and over again

Indeed.

[Tojara]

The heart strike change doesn't make much sense and makes that leeching heart strike trait even worse lol.

[Hashcrypt]

Future tooltip for Heart Strike:

Heart Strike

Spend a Rune.

[ZehGeek]

Were they mad that people were bitching about the XP change from Invasions?
Honestly at this point, HS's gonna have the same problem it had during..Mists I think. Overlapping in tools. Like god damn. I'd rather some ability that turns HS into BB for a few, or something..

And woo balancing..a really shit talent...