Why do Jaina and Genn get so much shit?

[Halyon]

I'm amazed you guys didn't just turn around and run away the second we got through the dark portal and saw the Iron Horde, with this attitude.

Maybe you should change your motto to "Lok'tar or retreat".

...there's bravery and then there's being a suicidal twat. The second one applies to sticking around through the massive horde of demons pouring at us that didn't get to you because we were in the way.

[Irian]

I don't think Jaina is unjustified, but the way they write her intentionally puts her in a negative and frankly pathetic light. She was loved for a long time for being a likable, wise character and one of the first who dodged the "red vs blue" trap, yet she was unable to differentiate between Garrosh and the people he subjugated. Imagine a situation where instead of becoming a moody, temperamental bitch to both her allies and enemies, she instead was deeply hurt, confused and troubled by the Horde betrayal; after all she had done to help them, she manifested it in a way that seemed more Jaina-ish, such as going off on her own and re-evaluating her moral code and coming to the logical reasoning that a Horde that allows a warmonger to have such unquestionable levels of power over an entire people has to be dismantled or else it could be a danger to both the Alliance and its people.
Instead, we got this shallow, moody, temperamental typical "girls are excessively emotional" reaction. Yes, I know, she lost her entire city but her response was not the response a character like Jaina should have had. Her entire identity was her logic and reason, and yet now she is clearly acting without it by taking such a hard stance against the Alliance cooperating with the Horde. She of all people should know how necessary cooperation is to survival, she was at the battle for Hyjal.

Genn, I don't see a lot of criticism of at all, to be honest....I think he's a stern, jaded, grumpy old man who carries an immense amount of guilt that he can't shake off. His character may not be everyone's favorite but he's never out of character to me. I think the main issue people have with him is that he chooses to immediately attack Sylvanas, who is clearly not interested in a faction battle in Legion, forcing both races to fall into the same damn trap they always do where someone attacks someone else and everyone gets fucked.

[Deleted]

I'm amazed you guys didn't just turn around and run away the second we got through the dark portal and saw the Iron Horde, with this attitude.

Maybe you should change your motto to "Lok'tar or retreat".

Who "you guys"? Do you see my avatar? I'm neutral, I play a dwarf paladin.

Tactically, the Horde call for retreat was permitted the survival of the Alliance.

[Aeula]

I'm amazed you guys didn't just turn around and run away the second we got through the dark portal and saw the Iron Horde, with this attitude.

Maybe you should change your motto to "Lok'tar or retreat".

The horde's entire leadership would have been wiped out in minutes if they'd stayed. It was about more than a few lives, it was about the fate of nations. Plus if the horde hadn't retreated, then the alliance wouldn't have and you'd have lost more than just Varian.

[Darktbs]

I just don't understand one thing.I don't agree 100% with the Purge of Dalaran.The Sunreaver deserved to be kicked but not killed/imprisioned.

But people treat the Purge of Dalaran like is the worst thing ever and the bombing of Theramore is...chill?!

[Aeula]

Yes, Broxxigar the suicidal twat! that is what he will be remembered as...

Broxigar died for a reason. Had the horde been wiped out on the broken shore the legion would win and their deaths would be meaningless.

[Hitei]

The horde's entire leadership would have been wiped out in minutes if they'd stayed. It was about more than a few lives, it was about the fate of nations. Plus if the horde hadn't retreated, then the alliance wouldn't have and you'd have lost more than just Varian.

And we were prepared to do that. Why do you think he wrote the letter in the first place?

It's no different than running a suicide mission through the Dark Portal to try and shut it down with us on the other side. But I've changed my mind, clearly the Horde isn't a threat. Clearly you aren't the same Horde who attacked the Alliance in the middle of fighting the Scourge in Icecrown just for the glory of it. Now you are scared little children who'd rather fall back then die a good death for the chance at winning.

Nazgrim must be turning in his temporary grave.

[Deleted]

I just don't understand one thing.I don't agree 100% with the Purge of Dalaran.The Sunreaver deserved to be kicked but not killed/imprisioned.

But people treat the Purge of Dalaran like is the worst thing ever and the bombing of Theramore is...chill?!

Two different situations. Theramore was warned and prepared for a battle, the Purge for an instant reaction to an event.

Garrosh was caught and judged for it. Jaina was also called for the actions before and after Theramore by... Tyrande.

[Aeula]

And we were prepared to do that. Why do you think he wrote the letter in the first place?

It's no different than running a suicide mission through the Dark Portal to try and shut it down with us on the other side. But I've changed my mind, clearly the Horde isn't a threat. Clearly you aren't the same Horde who attacked the Alliance in the middle of fighting the Scourge in Icecrown just for the glory of it. Now you are scared little children who'd rather fall back then die a good death for the chance at winning.

Nazgrim must be turning in his temporary grave.

Tauror was right, you refuse to look past your own bias. There's no point continuing this endless discussion with you.

[Deleted]

And we were prepared to do that. Why do you think he wrote the letter in the first place?

It's no different than running a suicide mission through the Dark Portal to try and shut it down with us on the other side. But I've changed my mind, clearly the Horde isn't a threat. Clearly you aren't the same Horde who attacked the Alliance in the middle of fighting the Scourge in Icecrown just for the glory of it. Now you are scared little children who'd rather fall back then die a good death for the chance at winning.

Completely wrong. Neither faction was prepared and their reactions show exactly that. And we learn during the Rogue Campaign that it was a trap set by Mathias "Detheroc" Shaw, the leader of the SI:7 and the main recon advisor of the Alliance.

But, yeah, if you think that throwing bodies randomly at the Legion is the best choice to defeat them, go ahead. The sane people will try other plans.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Broxigar the suicidal twat! that is what he will be remembered as...

The Alliance and the Horde were close to achieve anything at the Broken Shore, besides dying?

[Highdark]

In War crimes Jaina's relationship with Kalec has her relent on her hatred of the horde, but doesnt mean she forgave them. The hordes betrayal at broken else and subsequent death of Varian rekindled that hatred. Jaina used to be a proponent of peace until Garrosh took over for the horde. She and Thrall were almost successful on a few occasions.

A list of reason why her character has arced to violence: 1. Bombing of Theramore, death of quite a few of her loved ones including Ronin, 2. The Sunreavers aiding in the theft of the divine bell to help Garrosh devastate the land(which lead to the purge of Dalaran), 3. Watching the horde abandon the Alliance in-front of Guldan leading to the death of Varain.(Granted she doesnt know Slyvanas did it to save the horde buts thats irrelevant).

Genn hates Slyvanas more then he hates the horde. She sacked his home, killed his son and resurrected his people as undead(those who weren't worgen afflicted) Again watching Slyvanas betray the Alliance at their moment of need just reinforced his hatred of the Banshee Queen.

Both characters' hatred is justified. That being said I believe it was done to make members of the Alliance do some atrocities since it would be massively out of character for Velen, Andion, Tyrande, Gelbin Mekkatorque. 3 Priests and an almost non character. Since Jaina is arguably the most powerful living mage on Azeroth.(Khadgar being the argument) Ill be interested to see what monstrous thing she does.

Also in War Crimes lets not forget Slyvanas planned on murdering her sister and her children, if they came to stay with her.

[MrTharne]

The Alliance and the Horde were close to achieve anything at the Broken Shore, besides dying?

Horde's war council would have been fun :
Lor'Themar : "We need to find something to bolster the moral of the Horde, we lost more than half of our leadership. Gallywix any ideas ?"
Gallywix : "I have strippers at my Palace in Azshara."
Lor'Themar : "..."

[Deleted]

The hordes betrayal at broken else and subsequent death of Varian rekindled that hatred.

Again the "betrayal".

Nothing justify her flip-flopping. A leader can't run on emotions and ignore the advices based on those emotions. She learned that during War Crimes.

- - - Updated - - -

Horde's war council would have been fun :
Lor'Themar : "We need to find something to bolster the moral of the Horde, we lost more than half of our leadership. Gallywix any ideas ?"
Gallywix : "I have strippers at my Palace in Azshara."
Lor'Themar : "..."

I hope that everyone learned that sending leadership to the battlefront is the worst idea possible, even when they are heroes.

[Darktbs]

In War crimes Jaina's relationship with Kalec has her relent on her hatred of the horde, but doesnt mean she forgave them. The hordes betrayal at broken else and subsequent death of Varian rekindled that hatred. Jaina used to be a proponent of peace until Garrosh took over for the horde. She and Thrall were almost successful on a few occasions.

A list of reason why her character has arced to violence: 1. Bombing of Theramore, death of quite a few of her loved ones including Ronin, 2. The Sunreavers aiding in the theft of the divine bell to help Garrosh devastate the land(which lead to the purge of Dalaran), 3. Watching the horde abandon the Alliance in-front of Guldan leading to the death of Varain.(Granted she doesnt know Slyvanas did it to save the horde buts thats irrelevant).

Genn hates Slyvanas more then he hates the horde. She sacked his home, killed his son and resurrected his people as undead(those who weren't worgen afflicted) Again watching Slyvanas betray the Alliance at their moment of need just reinforced his hatred of the Banshee Queen.

Both characters' hatred is justified. That being said I believe it was done to make members of the Alliance do some atrocities since it would be massively out of character for Velen, Andion, Tyrande, Gelbin Mekkatorque. 3 Priests and an almost non character. Since Jaina is arguably the most powerful living mage on Azeroth.(Khadgar being the argument) Ill be interested to see what monstrous thing she does.

Also in War Crimes lets not forget Slyvanas planned on murdering her sister and her children, if they came to stay with her.

While i don't believe Jaina is compared to Khadgar.I agree with the rest.

Also noting.

Jaina is not pissed with the Horde Stealing the Divine bell,she is pissed because they used Dalaran as a way to do so.

Yes Jaina helped the Alliance in protecting the bell.But,Jaina acted by her own without the use of the Kirin Tor.The Sunreaver agent used Dalaran to invade Darnassus and steal the bell.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Since Jaina is arguably the most powerful living mage on Azeroth.

not even close. She is noted as the strongest female mage, and a Blood elf mage ranked under Rommath was able to shrug off her most powerful attack.

Yes Jaina helped the Alliance in protecting the bell.But,Jaina acted by her own without the use of the Kirin Tor.The Sunreaver agent used Dalaran to invade Darnassus and steal the bell.

she still was the leader of the KT at that time. She cant stand for neutrality then break it time and time agian.

[Eucep]

My views on these characters.

Genn: I just see a flaw in him ignoring the legion, otherwise no real issue with the character.

Jaina: No issue with her being volatile now to say the least. What I disagree on is her yo-yo writing in becomming what she is now. It's horrible and a sign of way to many writers being given allowance to do with her as they want without there being a clear goal for her.

Sylvanas: Why the heck is she warchief now? Is Blizzard really going to give her a redemption on the broken isles in her storyline? Loa spirits told Vol'jin so? Unless this ends up with her getting brutally destroyed at a critical moment that will save azeroth I see no good point in this. She has never shown a sign of improving, only becomming worse and worse.

Draenor Grom Hellscream: Still needs to be executed for his crimes against his own people, let alone the Draenei and other people on Draenor.

Garrosh: Trash writing from people who have no clue how character writing and consistensy works. Even stealing his kill by Thrall added to my loathing for the character.

In the end, everything just comes down to: Keep the war in warcraft and we will do anything to maintain that mentality of Blizzard.

[Darktbs]

Horde's war council would have been fun :
Lor'Themar : "We need to find something to bolster the moral of the Horde, we lost more than half of our leadership. Gallywix any ideas ?"
Gallywix : "I have strippers at my Palace in Azshara."
Lor'Themar : "..."

Someone tell Blizzard to stop killing Horde Characters.Faction Balance or not the Horde has like 4 Leaders and the Alliance have 10.

[Deleted]

Emotions? Why trust a faction that abandoned you? Where does emotions fit into that picture?

She is basing her assessment based on what facts and reports? Oh, right, the "SEE ANDUIN? HORDE IS EVIL QQ!" reports signed by the Kirin Tor mage-spies.

... what, Anduin and the Council of Six rejected her assessment? Wonder why...

[Exeris]

People complain about Jaina because they don't like it when a neutral level-headed character gets turned into an unstable homicidal maniac that starts razzia's.

One of the few interesting characters in this hippy lovefest predictable game.

[jonte912]

But who gets more shit, justifiably so, are the people who claim Sylvanas is like the Lich King. Using that quote tells all of us you have no idea what you are talking about.

Sylvanas does litteraly kill enemy forces, bring them back as forsaken and uses them to attack the enemy in silverpine forest