Protection legion Discussion

[Kueson]

For anyone wondering whether or not Revenge is worth using Single Target (the other option being going for SS resets via Dev), I ran some sims to confirm and yes, even after the 20% nerf, Revenge is still worth using ST from both a DPS and (of course) survivability standpoint.

Normal Rotation: http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...0d4c8d69b12e44
Dev>Rev Rotation: http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...9b3ae68ab9fd14

You lose about 50 rage prioritizing Devastate (~450 second fight) and there's no noticeable DPS gain. All in all, keep using Revenge how you have been, i.e. SS>Rev>Dev.

Granted, Mr.Robots sims are still new to me and idk how accurate they are, the fact that its simming that close between using Revenge and not using Revenge on single target is kinda bullshit. Its technically possible then to just not revenge on bosses without adds, and all you lose is roughly 1 ignore pain worth of rage?

Nerf was unjustified if you ask me.

[papajohn4]

Never surrender was great for soloing difficult content. The change hit more the solo player and have less to do with raid/class balance. Maybe it also aims for pvp? Surely will not hurt the raider though.

[Deleted]

I hate most of the changes from WoD to Legion (and didn't like most changes from MoP to WoD either) tbh and I'm all on board the "warrior is one of the less fun tank in Legion". The only reasons I'm considering keeping it as my main is because I've been maining warprot since WotLK and that it looks really strong in Legion.

i haven't played much with other tanks, and i probably took non optimal passive talents a lot, but overall it just strikes me that warriors just have more things going on/buttons to press. i haven't seen something like vengeance on another tank, and i haven't seen anything like intercept for resource on other tanks, which really spice things up compared to 2-3 rotational buttons and 1-2 active mitigation buttons.

(it also annoys me that DKs now need a target to cast bone shield! feels wrong not having that out of combat.)

[Deleted]

Vengeance weaving makes Prot feel fun and rewarding. Isn't Intercept also one of the few external cooldowns that remain in the game?

[lordzed83]

TBH they should boost Thundercap as tbh it feels shit :/

[Milocow]

yes
lets look at thunderclap vs blood boil
blood boil does twice the damage, applies a dot, and can have up to 2 charges
its unfair

[IKT]

I hate most of the changes from WoD to Legion (and didn't like most changes from MoP to WoD either)

Have you been doing challenging content?

I agree 100% that when doing trivial content the class has never been boring but doing content that gives me a beating leaves me mashing dg,sb,ip on top of the usual rotation of ss/rev/dev + focus rage procs and trying to time several FR stacks into a single big SS with the 5 second crit buff all up at once, on top of the boa trinket, thunderclappin all over the shop, keeping an eye on melee dps if any need an intercept etc the class definitely feels fun as fuck under pressure.

Trivial content wise I literally fall asleep.

I really need to get an ignore pain weakaura or something but I don't really want to install any more addons :/

This looks nice and simple: https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/slamandawe

[Senen]

Yeah but most of that was already in before. Ok, there's the new Vengeance interaction between FR and IP, and Spell Reflect is a magic damage reduction cd.
But we lost the banner+intervene interaction, bladestorm (I love this button and it was an interesting risk/reward decision in challenge modes), the cycle is way slower with SS's extended duration (seriously, 5 gcd between SS?) and the nerf to crit means we'll have less Rev proc so spam Dev all day. I hate the "gain rage by taking damage" as that make the spec so bad when you're not tanking a raidboss or challenge modes. I also liked our glyphs as we had some tough choices to make in CM but I guess that change hits everyone.
I still have hope as I guess it will be more fun in raid and I still need to test how it feels with a lot of haste (I have almost none because of wod optimization) and artifact. But right now, I'm not happy playing my favourtie char, which is sad.

[MasterHamster]

Been trying out Vengeance but I can't help thinking it feels a bit clunky for me and while I'm sure it's mostly me being unused to it, I feel like I'm mismanaging the rest of my abilities because I keep finding myself wondering which I pressed last, which might be due to the low rage I find myself having in non-raid situations.

Is there a proper way to macro Ignore Pain/Focused Rage for the Vengeance talent? Or a good WeakAuras setup?
And spare me the preaching about skill caps, I just don't want to pick Into The Fray

[Deleted]

Just track the Vengeance buff with a WA. I found it useful to put those 2 skills on my 2 additional mouse buttons, because I feel it is easier to find the rhythm if you do it with the hand not doing the on gcd rotation.

[lordzed83]

Senen ye rage generation from taking damage TOTALLY BLOWS if you are not tanking something u got like 0 rage to press well anything :/

[Shieldarm]

Am I the only one who hasn't really had much of a problem maintaining rage when not tanking? Sure, I don't generate nearly as much, but between SS, Revenge, Intervene, and SS procs, I still get plenty to build up my IP. I don't really worry about going into the taunt with 100 rage, but if I can go into a taunt with 2-3 stack of IP built up and 20 rage? That's good enough for me.

[maverick1625]

Am I the only one who hasn't really had much of a problem maintaining rage when not tanking? Sure, I don't generate nearly as much, but between SS, Revenge, Intervene, and SS procs, I still get plenty to build up my IP. I don't really worry about going into the taunt with 100 rage, but if I can go into a taunt with 2-3 stack of IP built up and 20 rage? That's good enough for me.

Nope, you're not the only one, I'm in the same boat. Haven't had much of an issue maintaining rage when not tanking & alot of the time I'm having to watch my threat as to not pull aggro off the other tank. Can also stack up my IP quite easily.

[Marok]

Edit: I need to clarify that the gain from prioritizing Devastate over Revenge is very small. If you're a player that doesn't really care about min/maxing as much as you can, then you'll be perfectly fine using Revenge normally.

I realized that I made a mistake with some of the simulations I did regarding whether or not it's worth using Revenge for Single Target. After adjusting for that mistake, and also adding in logic to wait for Shield Slam to be available before using SBlock, it is in fact not worth using Revenge single-target. It is both a survivability and damage loss to use Revenge ST. The exception to that being you should always use Revenge 2 or less GCDs before Shield Slam (because getting a Dev reset there is worse than using Revenge).

With Revenge: http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...7e365a111e43f8
Without Revenge: http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...65763045ab0986

(Note: These sims don't take FR into account. With FR, not using Revenge is even more of a DPS gain.)

So what do you gain/lose by prioritizing Dev>Rev?

+Shield Block Uptime
+DPS
-around 15 rage
(so basically there's no negative)

What about multi-target?

On 2+ targets, using Revenge is a DPS gain.
As for survivability, it doesn't matter how many targets there are, it's still a loss in survivability to use Rev>Dev. That doesn't mean you should though. It's not worth giving up that damage for the relatively small increase to survivability.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

This is no longer updated or in use. Check this link for the new one I'll be using.

Trinkets for defensive ranking, if people are interested.

Key for Rankings:
S - Best in slot.
A - Pretty great overall.
B - Decent.
C - Not the best.

Heroic/Mythic Dungeons:

Spoiler: 

• Infernal Alchemist Stone (S) - Static Versatility. Equip effect. Nice Versatility boost. Very large Strength proc, functions as boost a DPS and defensive cooldown due to the way Ignore Pain works. Crafted by Alchemists.
• Darkmoon Deck: Immortality (S) - Static Strength. Equip Effect. Static strength. Lots of passive Armor, shifting periodically. BiS for survival.
• Horn of Valor (S) - Static Versatility. On Use effect. Nice Versatility boost. Very large Strength bonus, functions as both a DPS and defensive cooldown due to how Ignore Pain functions.
• Coagulated Nightwell Residue (A) - Static Mastery. Equip / On Use effects. Is decent as a mini-defensive cooldown.
• Memento of Angerboda (A) - Static Strength. Equip gives 1 of three buffs for 8 seconds. Buffs IP all the time, as well as providing greast DPS and defensive stats via the buffs. You can have more than one buff up at a time, but this is limited by RNG.
• Impenetrable Nerubian Husk (A) - Static Haste. Proc gives decent armor, increasing over 15 seconds. Proc rate is (0.85 + Haste) PPM. Very good stats, and the proc makes us even better at what we normally do.
• Gift of Radiance (B) - Static Mastery / Strength. On Use. A very decent item for trash, or high add situations.
• Ember of Nullification (B) - Static Strength / Versatility. Taking magic damage has a 40% chance to silence attacker, 20 sec CD. Situational. Given prevalence of magic damage, might be better.
• Parjesh's Medallion (B) - Static Stamina. Procs below 35% health, gives 220k health and 1.8k Mastery for 12 secs. 1.5 min CD. Situational (progression), might be good for new tanks learning how to play and need a bit of a buffer.
• Shivermaw's Jawbone (B) - Static Stamina. Damages enemies within 12 yards (scales with primary?), each enemy hit gives Versatility for 10 seconds (5 enemy cap). 1 Min CD. Decent amount of DR. Scales very well with Ignore Pain.
• Orb of Torment (C) - Static Haste. On Use gives effectively 50% Leech for 20 seconds on 2 min CD. Decent through heavy party/raid-wide damage.
• Writhing Heart of Darkness (C) - Static Crit. Crits reduce damage target deals by ~1% for 6 secs, stacking to 3 times. Kinda meh, 3% DR isn’t worth.
• Shard of Rokmora (C) - Static Strength. Absorbs up to ~60k per attack taken, up to ~490k damage (scales with Versatility). Kinda meh, Ignore Pain is better - the shield is very small at 110.
• Talisman of the Cragshaper (C) - Static Versatility. 50% DR for 15 secs, only absorbs up to ~400k damage (scales with Versatility). Kinda meh, Ignore Pain is better - once again, the shield is very small.

World Bosses:

Spoiler: 

• Unstable Arcanocrystal (A) - Static Haste, Mastery, Versatility, Crit. Lots of passive stats, very good.
• Ettin Fingernail (B) - Static Strength, Haste, Mastery, Crit. Less useful than Arcanocrystal, Versatility is a good stat.

Emerald Nightmare:

Spoiler: 

• Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor (A) - Static Strength. Taking damage spawns an ichor, absorbing Ichor gives 2365 Versatility for 10 secs. Proc rate is (2 + Haste) PPM. Larger IPs from AP, increased by Versatility, essentially double dips.
• Nature's Call (A) - Static Haste, Mastery, Crit. Proc increases Haste, Mastery, or Crit by a large amount for 8 seconds. ~2 PPM. Similar to Memento, offers high amount of passive damage and survivability through stats.
• Grotesque Statuette (A) - Static Mastery. Enemies deal less damage each time they attack (stacks, but does not refresh duration, ex. Reverse EDH). Good for trash, bosses that hit fast.
• Phantasmal Echo (B) - Static Haste. Procs below 50%, absorbs 30% of damage taken (up to ~800k). 20 sec duration, 2 min CD. Proc is decent for progression.
• Unbridled Fury (B) - Static Crit. On Use gives ~460k max health and ~950 Armor, 25 sec duration, 2 min CD. Kinda meh unless you need another defensive CD.

Nighthold:

Spoiler: 

• Royal Dagger Haft (A) - Static Crit. Absorbs up to ~1.4 million damage from a killing blow, preventing it and healing for 425k. Take the prevented damage over 10 seconds. Mini-Purgatory/Ardent Defender.
• Animated Exoskeleton (B) - Static Crit. 30% DR for 15 seconds (up to ~575k damage). 2 min CD. Decent defensive CD.
• Infernal Contract (B) - Static Mastery. On Use gives 50% DR for 10 sec (up to ~720k damage). Take 10% increased damage for 30 seconds after (up to ~710k extra damage). 2 min CD. Risk/Reward type of play. Use in periods of high damage before periods of low damage.
• Fang of Tichcondrius (C) - Static Crit. On use grants 1973 Leech for 8 sec, 1 min CD. Kinda meh, Leech isn’t really worth it over the other trinket effects.

Final Thoughts:

Because of the way items can be variable now, such as a basic mythic trinket increasing in ilevel to compete with even mythic raid tier gear, this has rendered a “best in slot” list a bit unnecessary. Most of these trinkets will see usage in some form, but this ranking list was designed with survivability in mind. As with the end-all, be-all of such lists, the best advice I can give you is to use your judgement on any given fight. Impenetrable Nerubian Husk is a great item for us, but with no direct increase to Ignore Pain’s effectiveness, it’ll be worth a bit less on a magic-intensive fight, for example.

Currently, there are few DPS trinkets that are very, very good for us. The best two trinkets right now are Horn of Valor and Infernal Alchemist Stone (with Memento of Angerboda getting a shout out for for both offensive and defensive points with the 3 different procs it does). The Darkmoon Deck: Immortality is okay as well, not as good as the others - static Strength and a fair amount of Armor that changes periodically.

[Hostile]

Been trying out Vengeance but I can't help thinking it feels a bit clunky for me and while I'm sure it's mostly me being unused to it, I feel like I'm mismanaging the rest of my abilities because I keep finding myself wondering which I pressed last, which might be due to the low rage I find myself having in non-raid situations.

Is there a proper way to macro Ignore Pain/Focused Rage for the Vengeance talent? Or a good WeakAuras setup?

Yeah, it becomes super easy with WA, no need to macro. Mine just shows the Icon of the skill I need to press next, and if I got both buffs up, it prioritizes the Vengeance: Ignore Pain above FR, so you won't ever get confused.

Here's my setup: https://wago.io/VkxD953_Z

You don't have to use it all, just rip out the Vengeance ones and IP (if you need it). And just delete the rest of the group.

[PeopleReady]

Is it universally recommended to use Vengeance with IP/FR weaving? I've played Warrior since day one of vanilla and generally can play it like the piano, but that extra button added to the rotation just makes the whole thing feel way off for me.

[Lysozyme]

considering the spec has been drastically changed since vanilla on several occasions, what on earth are you talking about?

and yes vengeance is easily the best talent by far for survivability

[PeopleReady]

considering the spec has been drastically changed since vanilla on several occasions, what on earth are you talking about?

and yes vengeance is easily the best talent by far for survivability

That despite ten years of muscle memory vengeance feels very weird to play. Was there a need to be an ass?

[Lysozyme]

I'm not trying to be an ass, I genuinely don't see how playing Warrior in any expansion prior to Legion lends itself to playing Warrior now. And I don't think Vengeance feels weird to play, personally, but to each their own on that front of course.