Diversity in comic book

[tratra]

This offends me as a vegan transgender atheist who vapes and crossfits 4 times a week and i am also a male feminist as I identify myself as a pastafarian apache helicopter dog mega multi combo god of hyper death and if you don't agree with me you are an ignorant arrogant globaphobic sexist lesbian.

[grimniruk]

They weren't invented to make social commentary, Stan Lee came up with the idea of mutants because he couldn't be bothered coming up with novel ways to give powers to a new bunch of super-heroes so he decided they were just born that way.

It's a happy coincidence that they managed to be allegorical to civil rights movements.

Actually they're a ripoff of Doom Patrol, who were "Freaks with powers"

[Dhrizzle]

Let me just explain why alot of these changes are bad.

First; Captain America; Sam has been Captain America before, We have had a Black Captain America before, So why Sam being Cap NOW is drummed up as petty Diversity quotas, especially as it goes against Sam's character. Sam has never enjoyed being a leader, he can step up to the role, but he's a better soldier than a commander. It's also blatant pandering when Misty Knight suddenly has the hots for him, despite barely knowing him and being engaged to Danny Rand.

Second: Thor. Thor is not a title, it's not a power set, it's a person. When Thor has previously had the powers removed or given to people like Eric Masterson. They didn't take up the "Title" of Thor. They BECAME Thor the Thundergod, and in every iteration, like Eric, Have had Thor's godly soul hidden within them. FemThor has none of these ties, she just picked up the Hammer. AND IRONICALLY we have already had "What if Jane foster was Thor" before. She called herself Thordis, and Again, had the trapped soul of Thor within her.

Initially Eric Masterson shared a body with Thor but later the Odinson was banished and Eric took on the role/mantle/powers/name of Thor and starred in the Thor comic where people called him Thor.

[Mormolyce]

They should make new characters instead of changing existing ones to fit the diversity quota.

These are all different characters.

You're confusing characters with mantles.

[Jotaux]

I don't get this attitude that if a character is from a minority they can't possibly also be interesting characters in their own right. Just because writers decide to inject a little diversity into their work it doesn't mean those diverse characters must be written tokenistically. I'm not going to comment on the specifics of these new comics, because I'm more just into the movies and I'm interested mainly in how the new diversity of the comics will translate into hollywood. But you know, I'd much rather see Kamala Khan than Beta Ray Bill, both because she adds more diversity and because she's a cool character.

The attitude is from the current comics where if a character is a minority then thats all they are. That's what is defining them in the comics. It's not injecting a little diversity its "omg look at this character so diverse, all their experiences and stories must be about that!" The Miles Morales comic even pokes fun at the people being so excited for diverse characters. Why do you think characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan get less flak than Female Thor and Sam Wilson? Female Thor is a woman and that's all that defines her in her comic. Sam Wilson is black and that's all that defines him in his comic. It doesn't make for interesting characters. I am actually really disappointed in the Sam Wilson comic.

And how exactly is a muslim human more diverse than a humanoid horse?

[Mormolyce]

Actually they're a ripoff of Doom Patrol, who were "Freaks with powers"

It's actually more likely Doom Patrol and X-Men were a weird coincidence than a real rip-off, given the timings.

[grimniruk]

Initially Eric Masterson shared a body with Thor but later the Odinson was banished and Eric took on the role/mantle/powers/name of Thor and starred in the Thor comic where people called him Thor.

Ah, no.

You see, Eric shared a body with Thor, then Thor's soul was Banished, So Masterson went on a quest to get Thor back from Mephisto, Who held Thor's soul in a god bag, Eric overcame Mephisto and got the bag, only to realise it did not contain Thor's soul, and Thor's Soul was sealed inside him still.

Thor was recovered and became Thor again, Eric became Thunderstrike.

Try reading comic books.

- - - Updated - - -

It's actually more likely Doom Patrol and X-Men were a weird coincidence than a real rip-off, given the timings.

Stan lee is quite famous for being a lying stealing rat of a man.

[Mormolyce]

Female Thor is a woman and that's all that defines her in her comic. Sam Wilson is black and that's all that defines him in his comic.

Jane Foster - first appearance 1962. Sam Wilson - first appearance 1969.

No they are not defined by being "a woman" and "black".

- - - Updated - - -

Stan lee is quite famous for being a lying stealing rat of a man.

Perhaps so, but the first issue of X-Men came out a matter of months after Doom Patrol. They didn't turn around comics that fast.

[lonely zergling]

I hate when they change skincolor and gender of already established characters. Its ok when the superhero died/retired and a new character takes his weapon/power.. no problem with this. Random changes that are not explained via plot and only exist to fulfil a race / gender quota are cancer.

Whats next movies about White black panther or Asian shemale Superman? /facepalm

[Jotaux]

Jane Foster - first appearance 1962. Sam Wilson - first appearance 1969.

No they are not defined by being "a woman" and "black".

Have you been reading their comics? Thats all they are in their comics. Its why I specified that.

It's also not 100% that Thor is Jane Foster atm.

[Endus]

They weren't invented to make social commentary, Stan Lee came up with the idea of mutants because he couldn't be bothered coming up with novel ways to give powers to a new bunch of super-heroes so he decided they were just born that way.

It's a happy coincidence that they managed to be allegorical to civil rights movements.

...

"The whole underlying principle of the X-Men was to try to be an anti-bigotry story to show there’s good in every person.”

-Stan Lee

And if you really want the source, here's the video of the actual quote; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=molRbWC6WRY


Edit: As for other big-name writers, here's Chris Claremont, back in the early '80s;

"The X-Men are hated, feared and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry and prejudice."


Stan Lee, in another interview;

"How did you originally conceive the X-Men?

Our first book, Fantastic Four, was selling very well, so my publisher asked me to come up with another team of heroes. Well, my main idea was how could I make them different from all the other teams that were around? And the big problem was figuring out how they got their superpowers. I couldn't have everybody bitten by a radioactive spider or zapped with gamma rays, and it occurred to me that if I just said that they were mutants, it would make it easy. Then it occurred to me that instead of them just being heroes that everybody admired, what if I made other people fear and suspect and actually hate them because they were different? I loved that idea; it not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time."

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2000/aug/12/features



Can we put to bed the idea that it's not a clearly intended allegory? If the creator and major writers state clearly that it is, I'd think that settles the question.

[grimniruk]

Jane Foster - first appearance 1962. Sam Wilson - first appearance 1969.

No they are not defined by being "a woman" and "black".

Ah, see here, this is where you're purposely being obtuse.

Sam Wilson as Cap has been done before. Captain Falcon is just a cardboard cutout who acts nothing like Sam. Same with Jane Foster and Thor. Hell, Jane Foster was a literal counterpart of Thor as a caregiver and a pacifist.

Her being Thor makes no sense Because thematically, she has nothing but the Hammer to call herself Thor. She's not taking the name out of respect for Thor himself, or carrying on his legacy, she has literally stolen his hammer and parades about mocking him.

[Nitro Fun]

...

"The whole underlying principle of the X-Men was to try to be an anti-bigotry story to show there’s good in every person.”

-Stan Lee

And if you really want the source, here's the video of the actual quote; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=molRbWC6WRY

If Xmen is supposed to be about anti-bigotry then they probably shouldn't make mutants out to be dangerous, nobody would accept people like them if they existed and there is no reason to either.

[Dhrizzle]

Because they're bringing back a character who died, and was actually pretty respected, by slathering generic tags onto them and pushing them out. What connection does the new Giant man have to the Originals?

He's a man who's also a giant, that's one pretty obvious connection. Hank Pym (the original Ant-Man, Giant-Man and several other aliases) passed on his mantle (and Pym-particles or "size magic") to Scott Lang (the second Ant-Man who is seen being recruited in the Ant-Man movie) who passed a Giant-Man suit to the new guy.

[grimniruk]

...

"The whole underlying principle of the X-Men was to try to be an anti-bigotry story to show there’s good in every person.”

-Stan Lee

And if you really want the source, here's the video of the actual quote; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=molRbWC6WRY

Stan Lee - 2013.

The weasel would say anything to get more money and popularity. Considering the first run of the X-men has everyone lusting after the pretty underaged girl, kudos on the progression Stan.

[Deleted]

Even though they've been doing this kind of thing for years I feel like this is more a publicity stunt than filling quotas.

[nôrps]

Personally I find it difficult to care about the racial or gender identities of fictional characters when there are so many real issues in the world that are far more important.

[Dhrizzle]

Ah, no.

You see, Eric shared a body with Thor, then Thor's soul was Banished, So Masterson went on a quest to get Thor back from Mephisto, Who held Thor's soul in a god bag, Eric overcame Mephisto and got the bag, only to realise it did not contain Thor's soul, and Thor's Soul was sealed inside him still.

Thor was recovered and became Thor again, Eric became Thunderstrike.

Try reading comic books.

I never made it to the end of Masterson's time because he was frankly a terrible Thor. Even if he was carrying Thor's soul with him it doesn't change the fact that Eric transformed into "Thor" and starred in the "Thor" comic where people called him "Thor" despite him being the dominant personality with Thor seemingly absent. It's almost identical to the situation with Jane Foster being "Thor" even down to the eye-roll worthy encounter with the absorbing man.

[Yriel]

But you know, I'd much rather see Kamala Khan than Beta Ray Bill, both because she adds more diversity...

What does that even mean ?
Could you explain how that manifests, please ?

[Mormolyce]

Second: Thor. Thor is not a title, it's not a power set, it's a person. When Thor has previously had the powers removed or given to people like Eric Masterson. They didn't take up the "Title" of Thor. They BECAME Thor the Thundergod, and in every iteration, like Eric, Have had Thor's godly soul hidden within them. FemThor has none of these ties, she just picked up the Hammer. AND IRONICALLY we have already had "What if Jane foster was Thor" before. She called herself Thordis, and Again, had the trapped soul of Thor within her.

Donald Blake finds the hammer, picks it up and becomes Thor, Journey into Mystery #83, first appearance of Thor. He used to change back to Blake if the hammer was out of his hands more than 60 seconds.

They actually had to RETCON it that he really is Thor, and it's not just picking up the hammer that makes someone Thor.